Moderator View On Flaming

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blazeitup
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Moderator View On Flaming

Postby blazeitup » Sat Sep 08, 2018 6:28 pm

This is a formal complaint against one or all moderators on how you judge flaming, and i'd be really sad to see you deny this and just ignore it.

It origins in the ban against AdWords_Editor as I bet you all understand, but it's also a problem in general.



@Quetra

Here are the guidelines posted by a moderator. Ofcourse it's an old topic but this is what players have access to. And I say the same as the moderator does, are we not following them? The source is in Processed Complaints.

We added guidelines for flaming bans, are we no longer following them?

1. Only player in the game can post ban request about flaming, otherwise the ban request should be denied.
2. Flamer and victim must be on same team.
3. Maximum two day ban for flaming (including repeat offenders).
4. Flaming must include several harassing messages in the game over a long duration to be considered excessive (non-excessive flaming is not bannable).


3: AdWords_Editor was banned for 14 days.
4: He calls him "Trash" a total of 5 times in a 30 minute game. How was this excessive and/or harassing?

(08:50 / Allied) lilpimp: I WILL REPORT YOU

Before this line, there is nothing even remotely offensive said by AdWords_Editor. Before this he is trying to guide/teach him how to play when you have EA cross holder. Ofc teal doesn't need to give a shit since he is free to build what he wants, but he threatens with reports before any flaming has been done. I think this absolutely needs to be brought into consideration.

I know this player has done some flaming in his days I play with him a lot, but if you look at your guidelines, how in the hell can you put a 14 day ban on him for calling a player trash 5 times in a 30 minute game? It makes absolutely no sense at all.

--------------------------------
@AmnoN

http://storage.entgaming.net/replay/vie ... 333415.w3g

He is banned for FLAMING, not trolling or team killing or anything like that, FLAMING. I go through the chat of this game and I filter anything thats even remotely flaming, even tho I find absolutely nothing in this game offensive, nothing.

Green starts bad behavior before the 2 minute mark, not yellow.
(01:47 / Allied) hiddemeister: fuck off yellow

xMoons "flaming"
(02:46 / Allied) xMoon: Dumbass nigga


How does this fall under ban-worthy flaming? Even if those guidelines are no longer in play, this is not flaming at all. Not even the worst femi-nazi would have been triggered by that. There was several other rule violations done by both green and pink that was ignored in this game. But since this thread isn't about that i'd leave that out of this complaint.

And looking at this and comparing it with another game I found when looking at adwords history I find his:

(26:21 / Allied) IRNOOB: green you fucktard , in wich universe you think we can win with you 7/2
(26:38 / Allied) IRNOOB: go play mario you piece of shit
(29:34 / Allied) IRNOOB: omfg how can such idiots play this game
(30:20 / Allied) IRNOOB: and push you fuckers


Not really sufficient flaming from IRNOOB - insulting but wouldn't call it "excessive".

^ You found what xMoon said excessive flaming, but you didnt find IRNOOB's messages here excessive? Why is that?

Actually don't answer it, thats because you were in the game with xMoon, not in the game with IRNOOB.


You guys really need to figure out whats considered excessive as it varies about who is in the game and and from player to player. Ofcourse there is a witch hunt against adwords_editor, or atleast you bite at every chance you get to ban him.




So, what are the rules for "flaming" or can you just ban people the way you see fit? It doesn't add up here.

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Re: Moderator View On Flaming

Postby Quetra » Sat Sep 08, 2018 8:28 pm

You guys really need to figure out whats considered excessive as it varies about who is in the game and and from player to player.


It's a subjective question. It's always up to the interpretation of the moderator what constitutes 'excessive' because words can be construed in different ways in different contexts and by different people. There is simply no other way to do it.

I know this player has done some flaming in his days I play with him a lot, but if you look at your guidelines, how in the hell can you put a 14 day ban on him for calling a player trash 5 times in a 30 minute game? It makes absolutely no sense at all.


I gave a larger duration purely because of previous offences. It is his 5th flaming offence (in addition to numerous other unrelated offences). In case you are worried about moderator bias against him, these cases were dealt with by 5 separate moderators who all decided his flame was excessive in those cases.

As for the case itself, I found it excessive because he spent the entire game berating and insulting the OP repeatedly. There was not one hugely excessive comment like 'i raped your dead mother' or something like that, but that doesn't mean it wasn't excessive to target him that way with nonstop flame.

Before this line, there is nothing even remotely offensive said by AdWords_Editor. Before this he is trying to guide/teach him how to play when you have EA cross holder. Ofc teal doesn't need to give a shit since he is free to build what he wants, but he threatens with reports before any flaming has been done. I think this absolutely needs to be brought into consideration.


Simply not the case:

(07:09 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: teal if we want to kill them 7
(07:13 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: then u better fucking push
(07:17 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: and stop building that shit
(07:21 / Allied) lilpimp: they could get immo
(07:28 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: stfu


Not exactly a gentle guide, when teal is instantly told to shut the fuck up after questioning some of the advice which had already been given in an aggressive manner.

To my knowledge those guidelines posted in that 5 year old topic are no longer relevant. But @Hazardous or @Jabba41 can judge on that.

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AmnoN
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Re: Moderator View On Flaming

Postby AmnoN » Sat Sep 08, 2018 8:36 pm

@blazeitup

1) That is a VERY old post that you are referencing - 5 years old. Policies have changed since then.

2) viewtopic.php?t=134360
Red (adwords_editor) started the harassment (not even remotely close to ban worthy at this point, but just a start) less than 1:30 into the game:
(01:26 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: teal
(01:29 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: go fucking engies
(01:29 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: wtf

It devolved since then - MANY lines of harassment/ constantly cursing and insulting the player. Also, you failed to see the pattern here with this player and flaming.

3) I will break this down for you since you didn't feel the need to review the replay:
a) Spammed pings repeatedly (just prior to 1:50), pinged again at 7:40 (granted, it was in response to calling being low value and pinging yellow to say that)

b) Constant harassment/ cussing/ insulting:
Spoiler!
(01:50 / Allied) xMoon: wake up idiot
(01:55 / Allied) xMoon: fuck you green
(01:57 / Allied) xMoon: retard
(02:46 / Allied) xMoon: Dumbass nigga
(02:55 / Allied) xMoon: shut the fuck up now noob green
(03:26 / Allied) xMoon: nice 1200 player
(03:27 / Allied) xMoon: xDDD
(03:30 / Allied) hiddemeister: ty
(03:36 / Allied) xMoon: cant play btw
(03:43 / Allied) xMoon: you are a mega dog
(03:48 / Allied) xMoon: I saw you yesterday lmao
(03:52 / Allied) xMoon: you are a noob, stop talking now
(04:12 / Allied) xMoon: Why else was your team flaming you all game?
(04:14 / Allied) xMoon: lmao rekt
(05:56 / Allied) xMoon: impossible with noob green
(05:59 / Allied) xMoon: fucking russian dogs
(06:08 / Allied) xMoon: worst country in the world
(07:42 / Allied) xMoon: mad kid
(08:06 / Allied) xMoon: orange why not ff?
(08:09 / Allied) xMoon: fucking waste of time
(08:15 / Allied) xMoon: we already lost
(08:21 / Allied) xMoon: why do you want to waste time until they win
(10:38 / Allied) xMoon: but not talk about send or what the plan is?
(10:41 / Allied) xMoon: Fucking low elo dog
(14:07 / All) xMoon: 1400 elo
(14:07 / Allied) hiddemeister: is beyond me
(14:10 / All) xMoon: And never talks lmao
(14:18 / Allied) V1rus: !scores
(14:25 / All) Dikfor: ANNOUNCEMENT: You can now select your desired hosting location! Check http://goo.gl/lpbZX9
(14:27 / All) xMoon: also lying about rules
(14:31 / Allied) xMoon: ez lose


c) Then decides to threaten/ say that he/she will troll:
(09:23 / Allied) xMoon: ok I troll now
(09:29 / Allied) xMoon: no more push

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Re: Moderator View On Flaming

Postby EdgeOfChaos » Sat Sep 08, 2018 8:49 pm

Here's the thread for reference purposes: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=134360
I said in the appeal as well that I do not believe the 2 day duration is still a guideline. However the rule is against excessive flaming, which is what the 4th point there is getting at (which is why I quoted it). Constant harassment over a long period should be what excessive flaming is.

Here is the entirety of the chat from the user:
Spoiler!
(00:07 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: or dick?
(00:20 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: ea
(00:21 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: wc
(00:23 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: heli
(00:28 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: y
(00:42 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: -rolls
(00:45 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: sell polar
(00:50 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: or i want get second e
(00:51 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: ea
(00:59 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: go 2 acos please
(01:06 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: and can u build 1 aco here too
(01:23 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: -rolls
(01:26 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: teal
(01:29 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: go fucking engies
(01:29 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: wtf
(02:28 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: 1 wisp
(02:35 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: and 1 goblin scient and up it
(02:47 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: ur harlots r super useless
(03:46 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: what
(03:53 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: go
(03:56 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: i hold 7
(04:01 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: so harlots r uselss
(04:19 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: push teal
(04:23 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: go 4/0
(04:24 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: now
(04:38 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: lol no
(04:42 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: ea cross rapes 7
(05:00 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: lol no
(05:01 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: 9 ea
(05:03 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: holds dd 7
(05:08 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: no
(05:13 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: i will hold 7 if no immo
(05:34 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: lol forgott o send
(05:35 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: sry
(05:55 / All) AdWords_Editor: can u ff
(05:56 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: re 5
(06:08 / All) AdWords_Editor: Player [Gathor96] has voted to draw the game. 5 more votes are needed to pass the draw vote.
(06:10 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: k not 5
(06:12 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: kill then 7
(06:17 / All) AdWords_Editor: Player [Kekkerit] has voted to draw the game. 4 more votes are needed to pass the draw vote.
(07:09 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: teal if we want to kill them 7
(07:13 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: then u better fucking push
(07:17 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: and stop building that shit
(07:28 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: stfu
(07:32 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: and push
(07:47 / All) AdWords_Editor: Player [McPie] has voted to draw the game. 3 more votes are needed to pass the draw vote.
(08:01 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: i will hold 7
(08:04 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: teal push
(08:06 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: all u can
(08:10 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: so we can kill them 7
(10:30 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: teal the trash noob
(10:41 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: -zoom 150
(10:47 / All) AdWords_Editor: Player [McPie]'s draw vote has been recalled automatically (three minutes have elapsed).
(10:53 / All) AdWords_Editor: Player [Gathor96]'s draw vote has been recalled automatically (three minutes have elapsed).
(10:54 / All) AdWords_Editor: Player [Gathor96] has voted to draw the game. 4 more votes are needed to pass the draw vote.
(10:57 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: why the fuck r u still 2/1
(11:00 / All) AdWords_Editor: Player [Kekkerit]'s draw vote has been recalled automatically (three minutes have elapsed).
(11:06 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: u fucking trash
(12:02 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: i farm blocked my self looking at teal
(12:15 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: so didnt have time to 9 ea
(12:24 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: and stil lheld
(12:29 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: gj fucking ob teal
(12:35 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: worst trash i have ever seen
(12:41 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: yes go
(12:43 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: com mass
(13:11 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: check my push
(13:13 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: and urs
(13:20 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: ea cross is a fucking 7 holder
(13:55 / All) AdWords_Editor: Player [Gathor96]'s draw vote has been recalled automatically (three minutes have elapsed).
(14:11 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: never seen some1 so shit
(14:12 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: as teal
(14:20 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: good push for 8 mate
(14:27 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: good dead value u got there too
(15:00 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: they so ob
(15:03 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: that we need to send 15
(15:34 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: sell aco
(15:35 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: mid
(15:36 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: please
(16:12 / All) AdWords_Editor: [Gathor96] has been automatically muted for spamming. (You will be unmuted momentarily, but please do not spam again!)
(16:19 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: i didnt send
(16:27 / All) AdWords_Editor: [Gathor96] has been automatically unmuted. (Don't spam or you'll be muted again!)
(16:28 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: check my lumbmer
(16:40 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: 500
(16:52 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: and ur lane is completly uselss
(17:40 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: blcoker
(17:41 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: blue
(17:42 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: plae
(17:53 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: wtf
(18:10 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: gj man
(18:13 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: good blocker
(18:42 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: y good split
(19:26 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: save
(20:15 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: why the fuck r u building for arena teal
(20:20 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: u need to fucking push
(20:31 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: dont join my team next game teal
(20:35 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: u fucking trash
(20:58 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: lol did u see the blocker
(21:04 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: cava ob and immo
(21:08 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: we need to send 15
(21:37 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: -rolls
(21:43 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: go 7/6 asap
(22:52 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: 2k value leaking 11
(22:53 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: gj
(23:56 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: y keep upping ur dead value teal
(24:09 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: dont up
(24:11 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: save
(25:11 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: FUCKING PUSH
(25:44 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: kk teal u r reported for not cooperating
(26:02 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: and u r reported
(26:19 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: and u r still reported for not cooperating with team
(26:52 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: and for time
(27:12 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: gonna be good time for u teal
(27:16 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: when u get banned 3 days
(27:56 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: how is ur father teal
(28:51 / All) AdWords_Editor: he went harlots instead of engies
(28:55 / All) AdWords_Editor: he is upping harlots
(28:57 / All) AdWords_Editor: nad not pushing
(29:04 / All) AdWords_Editor: guess to will be reported
(29:25 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: where is the behe teal
(30:03 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: well u cant play for the next 3 days when i report
(30:28 / All) AdWords_Editor: teal is the worst trash ever
(30:52 / All) AdWords_Editor: ty


Here's what I would consider the "flaming" part of it.

Spoiler!
(07:28 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: stfu
(07:32 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: and push
(10:30 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: teal the trash noob
(11:06 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: u fucking trash
(12:29 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: gj fucking ob teal
(14:11 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: never seen some1 so shit
(14:12 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: as teal
(16:52 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: and ur lane is completly uselss
(20:31 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: dont join my team next game teal
(20:35 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: u fucking trash
(23:56 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: y keep upping ur dead value teal
(25:44 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: kk teal u r reported for not cooperating
(26:02 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: and u r reported
(26:19 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: and u r still reported for not cooperating with team
(26:52 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: and for time
(27:12 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: gonna be good time for u teal
(27:16 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: when u get banned 3 days
(27:56 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: how is ur father teal
(28:51 / All) AdWords_Editor: he went harlots instead of engies
(28:55 / All) AdWords_Editor: he is upping harlots
(28:57 / All) AdWords_Editor: nad not pushing
(29:04 / All) AdWords_Editor: guess to will be reported
(29:25 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: where is the behe teal
(30:03 / Allied) AdWords_Editor: well u cant play for the next 3 days when i report
(30:28 / All) AdWords_Editor: teal is the worst trash ever

I left out chat that was angry but productive (for example "build this fucking tower!")

I had only briefly read it when I commented before, that was my bad; reading this now, my perspective is that it's borderline (no severe flaming, but it is constant). Moderator discresion seems OK here, so I would say that the mod's decision is fine. IMO it meets the criteria for "several harassing messages over a long period".

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Re: Moderator View On Flaming

Postby Jabba41 » Sat Sep 08, 2018 10:37 pm

I handle it. No input needed. Thanks
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Re: Moderator View On Flaming

Postby Jabba41 » Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:31 am

EdgeOfChaos wrote:my perspective is that it's borderline (no severe flaming, but it is constant). Moderator discresion seems OK here, so I would say that the mod's decision is fine. IMO it meets the criteria for "several harassing messages over a long period".

Nothing more to add to it
It was within his situational judgement, so no actions are taken

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