Please remove 104 from auto-host, until it is actually ready.

[Burn]

Eh, not sure about recent versions but I'm sure there are still 40min+ games. Tbh, I think most games start to get boring and slower paced at around the 20min. mark.

-Burn

[lordmillt]

French people were born to lie.!

[Lynx]

Finding titan eggs are just for fun, numbers can be tweaked, but can't be game changing. You can make it random shit like cat scales or random shit like possessing skinks, albatross, gambling/betting...shit, even poker.

Just anything to pass the time until the game ends while you sit in base.

-Burn

Tbh I don't even see severe cases of base sitting anymore since Neco made titaning even easier.

because it's safer to afk in a seed.

________________________________________________

If you want to make titan easy, titan's shop need to be re-done.

- Better strategic placement of items in the shops
- Short and concise item descriptions.
- only one shop with multiple categories e.g. "core" "situational" "consumables" "recipes"

______________________________________________________

Or how about this controversial idea to make titan easier:

-Remove wotw cd
-detonate also gives a 5 second spellshield (spellshield = morphlings old passive) you're also given a debuff which disables you being under the effect of a spellshield for 30 seconds to prevent abuse.

[narbtit]

Well Shadowzz seems to feel pretty strongly about his ideas I'm looking forward to the standalone ID if he is still working on it

I am for a balanced game but it has to be fun too

[travis12]

Well Shadowzz seems to feel pretty strongly about his ideas I'm looking forward to the standalone ID if he is still working on it

I am for a balanced game but it has to be fun too

Judging from Shadowzz opinions and influences on neco's current map. Stand alone will suck.

[ShadowZz]

I know, it would be pretty bad having stand-alone a game that was balanced and could actually function on a competitive level :O

[Stealer]

Given how many times you comment "I've been thinking about that for stand-alone" on new concepts and how long it took for aof nerf (wait that didn't actually happen, its strength wasn't block) there some serious doubt standalone would be more balanced than 103.
Or even how long it took for demo (heavy summons) to get nerfed despite several prominent members saying it was going to be op as fuck you didn't join in (until awhile a after map released). I think there were even several versions released before nerf.


In general, your balance skills have been questioned many times and when talking about 'op stuff' you have a tendency to bring up fozz doing something which isn't really you finding something op and executing.

[ShadowZz]

Could you link me to a time when I said "I've been thinking about that for stand-alone" please. Genuinely wondering....

The only thing I can recall is saying things like "It won't work in ID Wc3 but I'm all for it on Standalone" like in reference to the topic about creep camps.

As for demo summons. I am and was well aware of the demo summons being extremely strong and spent about 3 full versions only using demo as a waller due to OP summons and you think that I just "didn't mention it"? The majority of things I talk about which are to do with balance don't happen on forums and I guarantee you it was mentioned regardless of what happened or how long it took that doesn't somehow make it my fault lol? For some reason you and others have this idea that changes to this map are of my doing and that simply isn't true. I DO NOT edit Wc3 ID. Sure I talk to Neco but I have no more input in the game than anyone else. Just because I understand the changes he makes and agree with them and will happily defend them to the haters of change that doesn't mean I'm somehow responsible for them.

The problem with forums is that me saying that "titan needs to be easier to play" gets straight changed into "titan needs to be stronger" which end up creating this huge stigma that I somehow want titan to be buffed into the next era. When realistically as I've said quite a few times, I want titan to be easier to play for low/average skilled players and titan should be nerfed for top tier titans who have insane winrates. Ways to do that were listed in a different topic but misconceptions like this is why there's a lot of drama unfortunately.

Also, link to last bit. I've used plenty of people as examples when making post's. I'd say Foss has been used less times than others to be honest Like-wise, a lot of balance is simply observation and knowledge, it's hard to just think something up out of thin air and expect it to be a good idea. Some thinks work out and others don't and the only way to figure out which is which is to try them out.

Most people don't agree with any changes, some agree with few. That's just the nature of ID. This version of ID is no more "Island Defense" than 3.0.9d or 2.0.6c or 1.9 or 1.4. What people "think" ID is changes with every generation that plays the game and people hate it when it changes from what they know. A lot of issues with balance arise from that because people simply will never agree with drastic changes (top mid for example) even though it's already been changed like 30 times in previous versions because in their opinion "It's fine the way it is" (toxic tower for example(ended up finding out the dps for toxic was actually bugged and it was giving out 3 attacks per tick instead of one)).

[Stealer]

Could you link me to a time when I said "I've been thinking about that for stand-alone" please. Genuinely wondering ...
The only thing I can recall is saying things like "It won't work in ID Wc3 but I'm all for it on Standalone" like in reference to the topic about creep camps.

So you do remember a time?

As for demo summons. I am and was well aware of the demo summons being extremely strong and spent about 3 full versions only using demo as a waller due to OP summons and you think that I just "didn't mention it"?

Abusing something and mentioning something are two separate things. However you certainly didn't realize how op it would be until afterwards considering you thought people actually needed to play the version to see how strong the change was. Releasing imbalanced versions and then tweaking them is not the definition of a balanced game.

The problem with forums is that me saying that "titan needs to be easier to play" gets straight changed into "titan needs to be stronger" which end up creating this huge stigma that I somehow want titan to be buffed into the next era.

That has to do with you not talking to neco via the forums. You have back door conversations with him and something happens and you seem to be in favor of the change people are going to logically assume that you had something to do with the change. When people complain about the change they are going to blame Neco but also whoever had the idea which is perceived to be you and no amount of talking is going to change how people perceive your hidden talks with neco. The "problem with forums" wasn't present from the beginning.
Back to quote. You keep saying that titan needs to be easier to play and then titan buffs keep happening and then you defend them and talking about making titan easier to play people are going to infer that the buff is meant to make titan easier.

It's hard to just think something up out of thin air and expect it to be a good idea. Some thinks work out and others don't and the only way to figure out which is which is to try them out.

Sure but a lot of ideas are been very much disagreed with and sometimes when they don't work it takes many versions to fix or few but a long time duration. As well as some of ideas weren't in the changelog or the changelog was posted basically as the version took effect.
Gold tower stacking nerf.
Gold tower (in general) nerf.
Armour nerfs.
wotw nerfs.

Most people don't agree with any changes, some agree with few. That's just the nature of ID. This version of ID is no more "Island Defense" than 3.0.9d or 2.0.6c or 1.9 or 1.4.

The changes from 309d to 4.0 have definitely be the largest. Pretty much every prior version took what existed and expanded upon it. 4.0 took a few jumps backward (removed like every builder/titan) and then started forward again.
Previous editors doesn't re-architect the tech tree or change gold builders (tauren) to not need gold to tower. Sure builders like troll got adjusted a few times and portions of the map were changed but the rate and significance of changes were fewer and less severe.
I don't really care that much about "how different" 4.0 is from 309d but I do like it when things aren't completely broken and don't like it when seriously unnecessary nerfs happen.

A lot of issues with balance arise from that because people simply will never agree with drastic changes (top mid for example) even though it's already been changed like 30 times in previous versions because in their opinion "It's fine the way it is"

Nobody claimed top middle was balanced, everybody is claiming that it looks like absolute garbage as a puddle of water. This also leads into why people think you and neco are so close, it's extremely hard to find a change Neco has made that you don't seem to 110% agree with. It is hard to make that statement about any other pairs of people.

(toxic tower for example(ended up finding out the dps for toxic was actually bugged and it was giving out 3 attacks per tick instead of one)).

Complaints weren't about a bug fix, it was making it so that it didn't stack. If a titan gives you 400g (not to mention like 2k gold overall because there are 10 builders) and you become strong because of it, that is game balance. You give somebody free farm they should become strong and this is true in any game. If I feed mid in dota 20 kills he can probably 1v5 now and that is still balance.
Take ring satyr. Its a ~400g investment that takes 40g to counter, that isn't imbalanced. Not only is it a 400g investment but none of that 400g is going into survivability, titan get a lucky pearl + 2 swings = dead. Satyr being able to attack allied hunters for gold, imbalanced.
ID has very few big ticket changes and you are generally perceived to be on the wrong side of the opinion on those changes.

--

But hey look do whatever you want. Just understand that what choices you make do affect how everybody looks at you and if you want people to look differently maybe don't make those choices.

[Burn]

Rofl at trying to argue with ShadowZz. Honestly, it's a waste of time.

Tbh, I disagree. I think 104d is fine. Play-able.

Titan can easily win by abusing neutral buildings, but builders can also easily win because titan's EXP rate received a major nerf, and by just triple basing and not shitbasing.

-Burn

[ShadowZz]

@Stealer You have the idea that I'm somehow worried about "the way people look at me". I have plenty of friends who have seen ID as is and have seen plans for IDS both conceptually and balance wise. All of them have backgrounds in the gaming industry and the majority of them have Software Engineering and Game Design (SEGD) Degrees. All of them pretty much think it looks great and is going to be great if it is done correctly. Like-wise I have friends at university who sit on these forums and read my posts in class out of laughter because it's a funny joke to read some of the arguments I have to have with people who will simply never understand due to their knowledge being based off playing this game. I have no issue whatsoever if people on the ID forums want to hate me or think I'm stupid for actually doing/saying things that move towards ID being balanced.

Don't you find it slightly ironic that people who spend years in education learning to do game design and game balance as a job agree on these things but people who simply play the game don't?

Me and Neco are friends and have been for a very long time so assuming that we talk outside of forums to me doesn't seem that weird and it doesn't make it some co-conspirator meeting where we decide things to change (lol). People can think whatever they want but that leads back to the above question.

I've said it before, gaming is the only area where the user thinks they have just as much if not more knowledge than the professional. It's just that for gaming you don't have the barrier between you and them, or more specifically for ID you don't. Most game developers don't post on a public forum and most don't reply to issues with the public because it always leads the same way. People will simply not understand.

The original reason I burned bridges with people Stealer was back when I suggested removing wall walking and everybody through a paddy about it. But the irony is that it is imbalanced and it won't be in IDS. Will certain people be happy about that? No. Do I care? No. I care about the game and the community it has enjoying an experience where all are equal and only separated by their decision making skills, timing, ability to execute strategies etc. Not by their ability to abuse a broken game mechanic that gives them an enormous advantage. But I'm sure if you look back you'll see the same hate over pages of bullshit as to why its "balanced" which is some sort of sick joke. That's an extreme version of crowd retardation that is given to you by gaming forums.

I generally don't "discuss" IDS on forums and would never go into huge detail about it because as quite a lot of people could tell you - I am certainly not doing it for them. I love ID and I've seen it through all of its iterations from beginning to now and it should not die on Wc3. I want to port it to IDS so as to keep it alive and allow another generation to enjoy a game that can adapt so well to changes and become whatever it needs to become. I'm not at all worried about the current ID community porting over to IDS because it will be a well made and balanced game and can create it's own community. Whether the current ID community loves it or hates it that's not going to change the game and it would be silly to assume different.

On a side note. I originally was more than happy to include members of the community in development and allow them to help but they legitimately tried to destroy the project out of spite and that's about the time I decided to have a 0 trust policy on the current ID community. Maybe some day I'll try to include people again or let the community have something in the game that will be their forever but I simply don't know.

If I ignored something on your post it's because I've already talked about it in 50 other topics and I'm not talking about it again out of keeping my sanity. i.e toxic towers, demo balance, 4.0.0 restarting id to fix concept problems, gold tower nerfs (mainly nature), wotw etc

[Lynx]

#1 Seeing as there is no proof of anyones education on these forums, it should be assumed that everyone has the same level of education
#2 IDS doesn't exist
#3 The fact that you continue to argue over something pointless and never admit that you are wrong confirms that you care what the community thinks of you.
#4 You and Neco talking outside of forums isn't weird.
#5 You and Neco making balance decisions together outside of forum is weird.
#6 My friends laugh about your posts and arguments, yet that isn't a good reason to say your posts contain no good content
#7 Swallow your pride and realize you aren't always in the right for once

[ShadowZz]

Feel free to post proof of your education Lynx because as it stands you refuse to post any information regarding what you actually do and I'm pretty open about posting mine. Ironic that you want to use that excuse considering your the only one refusing to say anything. On a side note I know what others do for a living and have proof of what they do and IDS does exist, just not for you Plenty of people can confirm that in our discord. As for your friends laughing about my posts. Plenty of those friends in your little skype conversation from a back when we had the wall walking argument have spoken to me too such as Nate who came into an ID game with the impression that I was some random cunt and was flaming me and after we had a nice conversation actually agreed with me about wall walking. I don't try to find people who can only see one side of the argument to agree with me or influence them into coming on to flame you by saying your "destroying id", I happily let them see both sides and they generally agree with me. Feel free to deny the skype messages you sent to old euros about me after the wallwalk topic but I've had enough of them confirm it happened that there's no point in arguing it.

You have this bully mentality that if there's enough of you that means your right and that's simply not how the world works Lynx. People get educated and make decisions based off of that education. In every other profession people agree with those said people who are educated regardless of how many uneducated people disagree. Same principle Lynx.

[Stealer]

You have this bully mentality that if there's enough of you that means your right and that's simply not how the world works Lynx. People get educated and make decisions based off of that education.

Somebody never been to america.

[ShadowZz]

Yeah and look how that turned out xD