Is !slap bannable?

[Sylvanas]

Obviously harassing =/= communication but like I said, not every case is black and white and I'm sure since 2 ex-moderators for some reason need this clarification they too also know the process of grey area cases and what-not.

Oh, don't be so sure. Weren't they both kicked out for not being very bright?

Anyway, as I always say when these threads come up, they could always just remove the useless ass !slap command. Problem solved.

To add onto this even further (and finally), no one ever uses the !slap command for good intention. It's almost always in an act of defiance and or harassment as HazarDous stated. Will not go into the case mentioned specifically, but there is your "general answer" if you'll call it.

WHY IT BE THERE THO? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[pinheadlarry]

The only real purpose of the !slap command is to troll or flame. It appears Merex shares the same sentiment.

Merex » Mon Oct 03, 2016 5:13 pm
Nevertheless, I'm sure it isn't just LoD that suffers this issue whether it be DotA in-general or any-other game genre.

My personal opinion is, it is indeed useless. There is no real use for this command other than to troll and be silly with friends but some players do get out of hand and afaik I believe even if you ignore the user providing these slap messages, it still goes through.

So isn't it a matter of being excessive or not? 2 times hardly seems excessive. Trolling and dota go together like Bernie Sanders and people with a sub-50 IQ. Dotacash considered trolling could be strategic and was only banned on clear and malicious cases. Dota is continually ranked as a game with the highest level of toxic communities, but the difference is many people, including myself, get great entertainment and comic value out of trollers and spazzing flamers. I love playing in games with people like gonzoindahouse or Last(lethal) since they are hilarious to watch meltdown. No idea why people get so uptight about trivial levels of flaming or trolling.

But beside the point, it would be great to have mods give their opinions on if these !slap commands uses are bannable. I'll use last(lethal) for the example since he will auto-ignore you for even something as trivial as not swapping him the hero he wants.

1. I am on last(lethals) team and he ignores me when I refuse to swap him lena. At this point I use !slap to try and get him to communicate (e.g. "!slap last(lethal) lets communicate so we can win, plz unignore me")

2. I am on the opposite team of last(lethal) I troll him over his dagon build and he ignores me. ( I don't know he ignored me cuz it doesn't say). I continue to troll him 4 more times throughout a 30 minute game sometimes using the !slap command. Since I didn't know he ignored me, would I be guilty of "abusing !slap"

3. Last(lethal) is on my team and I learn from a teammate that he ignored me. I use "!slap last(lethal)" to troll him. I never use !slap to communicate additional messages with him such as "!slap last(lethal) is so dumb that he thinks socialism is a viable long-term government structure". Since !slap was designed for you to input a user's name, it would mean that !slap is getting used the way it was intended. Therefore if you use !slap (not excessively) in the way it was intended, but not to bypass ignore to convey additional messages, is that ok?

[Sylvanas]

I never use !slap to communicate additional messages with him such as "!slap last(lethal) is so dumb that he thinks socialism is a viable long-term government structure".

!slap pinheadlarry stop shoehorning your political views into this thread, what the hell do orange man shenanigans have to do with this?

[pinheadlarry]

!ignore Sylvanas

[Zeratul]

Obviously harassing =/= communication but like I said, not every case is black and white and I'm sure since 2 ex-moderators for some reason need this clarification they too also know the process of grey area cases and what-not.

I find it curious how you're trying to find your way out by calling it a grey area, with 2 instances of !slap, with 20 minutes interval between one another (and the command wasn't even directed at you, nor did you tell him to stop after the first time - Not that you have to, but you could have, i mean, after all you were ingame right?), but let's call it a grey area, and pretend that you're within "reasonable ground" to give a 3 days ban for this "grey" case.

Anyways still waiting for a response on this one

-> Guidelines supposely apply to everyone, however moderator(s) these days seems to skip filling information while processing ingame ban requests (missing wc3 username, and not only): Would be nice if moderators follow the same guidelines as we users are supposed to, for a matter of transparency/coherency"

Can we expect that this will be looked out for (as in, moderators will be more careful, and fill in all the information), or just plain ignored? Else I (and others) might start posting ban requests, and refrain from giving out our smurf's name (for obvious reasons) - Not that it works for me (since the country flag will always mark me), but might work for others and i've seen ban requests being denied for missing the OP war3 username (or even questioned to include that information), yet mods brqs are being approved missing the same information (therefore the incoherency)

[BeerLord]

I dont have a lot of sympathy for this thread. Players complain about not having clear and concise enough rules a lot. This sounds nice but is not practical given the fluidity and inherent variability to this game where so much depends on context. It is not up to me to spoon feed players on how to act. If one acts like an ass, one is likely to find oneself on the slippery slope of ban-worthy actions. If one does not act like an ass, is able to have some degree of self control when angry, than chances are you will not wind up on somebody's ban request.

If we are going to question the verdict applied to the game in question here, I hope we have all watched the game and read the entire chat log to gain proper perspective. (Not merely counting the number of slap commands).

[EdgeOfChaos]

BTW it shows a message when a player ignores another player now, so you won't have to worry about not knowing. So I guess the answer is yes: using slap, even once, to bypass ignore is a violation of the rules and bannable. Thank you for the clarification.

The part I like the least about this is how he instantly denied the appeal.
If a user posts a ban appeal saying the moderator in question did something wrong, it goes without saying that the user would like another moderator to look at it. Not the same moderator who reviews his own ban and says "yep that's an OK ban" and denies it. Even if the ban IS actually proper, it shouldn't be denied by the same moderator who made it. This is the same reason I had such a problem with a certain red admin instantly denying complaints that were made against him back in the day.

[BeerLord]

Ugh, my post above sounds so condescending. Sorry fellas, that was not my intent. Having been banned a number of times when I have tilted and lacked self-control I'm speaking from personal experience here. And I dont mind the criticism of the decision, I would just ask that in general the game be watched before judgement is made.

[kunkka]

Anyway, as I always say when these threads come up, they could always just remove the useless ass !slap command. Problem solved.

[Remove my older brother and feel my flame!!] hasn't played any island defense games here.

[Yarragon]

Ugh, my post above sounds so condescending. Sorry fellas, that was not my intent. Having been banned a number of times when I have tilted and lacked self-control I'm speaking from personal experience here. And I dont mind the criticism of the decision, I would just ask that in general the game be watched before judgement is made.

Beerlord, I don't think people are upset with you specifically. I've noticed a lot of "gray" cases as you all call them lately that are exactly that, a gray area undefined by the rules and as such it's almost completely up to opinion whether said user in question should be banned.

Context means a lot, and while the user may not be *trying* to troll, he could still end up banned. It's the same way when the new 15 minute leaver rule was implemented, and entire lobbies were being banned by some moderators, and only one or two people were being banned by others.

I do believe that if the "handbook" was available, at least to people interested in the guidelines you guys are meant to follow, there would be a lot less criticism by people that haven't been around / aren't ex moderators themselves. It wouldn't even necessarily need to be the entire thing. Perhaps a section of the wiki page that states what standards you guys are held to, and what the goals ENT has are.

[EdgeOfChaos]

The moderator handbook would be of little use/interest to non-moderators, and is not to be published anyways

Oh, don't be so sure. Weren't they both kicked out for not being very bright?

:thonk: don't know where you're getting info from?
I left when I couldn't be active, and art)y invited me to come back when I was less busy. I do not plan to re-apply though. Don't know about hyo's situation.

Rules being applied very differently between moderators is an issue now as it was when I was a moderator.

[Zeratul]

Rules being applied very differently between moderators is an issue now as it was when I was a moderator.

There was a time when the gap wasn't this big - Not sure if it's due to the fact that most moderators are new, so there's only a few oldies and a lot of new people (which increases the gap, due to them having different information: We both know how staff handbook was changed throughout times)

And nope, i wasn't kicked (despite some people would have loved that), i actually resigned on my own when people showed their true character & what they never stood for (or mb i was just blind all these years and things were already that way, could also be the case, who knows xd) - Might add that yes, i'm not allowed to return to ENT, not that i would be interested either, but you get the point.

[BeerLord]

For the record, both hyo and edge were excellent mods/staff and each left on their own terms. Not that that is particularly relevant to this thread, but there it is.

[Sylvanas]

Anyway, as I always say when these threads come up, they could always just remove the useless ass !slap command. Problem solved.

[Remove my older brother and feel my flame!!] hasn't played any island defense games here.

The island defense stats stuff isn't even supposed to be a thing so it goes without saying...

For the record, both hyo and edge were excellent mods/staff and each left on their own terms. Not that that is particularly relevant to this thread, but there it is.

And nope, i wasn't kicked (despite some people would have loved that), i actually resigned on my own when people showed their true character & what they never stood for (or mb i was just blind all these years and things were already that way, could also be the case, who knows xd) - Might add that yes, i'm not allowed to return to ENT, not that i would be interested either, but you get the point.

It was a joke, I know hyo/zeratul resigned during the Day of Great Drama which split the mod team in two over reasons which I never really cared to know about. Unsure about edge, "not very bright" is still a possibility, but I'm sure it must have been something else.

[Yarragon]

I'm assuming Zeratul and Edge were both moderators around the early days of ENT after the merge, but not actually part of the merge. They seem relatively cool and I couldn't stand the mods that came over from BGN / came on immediately after the merge. Way to many "habits" from BGN came with those guys.

But back on topic, I really feel like certain things should be made public, or at least have a precedent set. I just can't quite place what they are at the moment. Not that anyone is going to understand what I mean. But overall I feel like ENT is moving in a much better direction as far as the community is concerned compared to before I originally left myself. As far as !slap being bannable, the troll commands should probably be put on an internal cooldown for the usage of them. Say once every 5 minutes or so? Per person.