Concerning the next Warcraft 3 patch

General discussion about Warcraft III and Enterprise.
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Concerning the next Warcraft 3 patch

Postby bill7907 » Fri Sep 28, 2018 2:10 am

Right now, there is a new 1.30.2 PTR patch created by Blizzard and it is being publicly tested.


It's in the progress of becoming a full active live patch that will be applied to Warcraft 3 in the very near future.
From what we understand right now is that everything Blizzard is preparing is pointing towards one single direction which is: "No more auto-hosting bots" on Battle.Net.

We all know the advantages of having auto-hosting bots:
-Fast hosting
-Automated system
-Very low latency
-Hostbot tracking system that keeps track of people who ruin games by IP ranging the offenders (something that Blizzard would never be able to do)
-Elo system on custom games
-Auto-refresh
-Set of specific rules for each custom game
-Moderators(human volunteers) that process "Ban Requests" on people who break rules
-Fairly objective and impersonal game environment



If you are like me and you prefer auto-hosting bots,please go voice your opinion on it at the following websites:
1) Blizzard website: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/bnet/topic/20769476896
OR
2) Hiveworkshop website: https://www.hiveworkshop.com/threads/pa ... te.308919/

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Re: Concerning the next Warcraft 3 patch

Postby Peppe » Fri Sep 28, 2018 3:34 pm

I saw OHS shutting down immediately after the patch was announced, I guess ENT is in trouble as well, if/when the patch gets implemented? I don't really know anything about how hostbots work, but there seems to pretty much be a consensus that this will be harmful to communities relying on hostbots, but I haven't seen anyone from the ENT team commenting on this, so I find it difficult to gauge how worrisome this is.

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Re: Concerning the next Warcraft 3 patch

Postby ShinraCorp » Fri Sep 28, 2018 5:33 pm

The people demand answers!
Those wings, I want them too.

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Re: Concerning the next Warcraft 3 patch

Postby Unitil » Fri Sep 28, 2018 6:03 pm

There is not much to comment at this point, as we try and see where the development team over at Blizzard is taking things.

The clear-cut thing that can be said is, hosting bots will become incompatible with the new patch that is to be released in the near future. This in general will affect all communities using hosting bots for competitive, or hosting purposes.

As noted already, OHS has already closed their doors, and no longer have hosting bots online.
The reason for OHS closing its doors can be found at the following:
https://bye.ohsystem.net/

With regards to the direction ENT Gaming will take, the Staff Department has yet to release any information regarding the direction we will take. They will be sure to properly announce anything major concerning what is happening.

For now, please be patient as discussions are underway within the Staff Department, and will be officially announced when a direction has been decided.

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Re: Concerning the next Warcraft 3 patch

Postby dweiler » Fri Sep 28, 2018 7:28 pm

So sad, I wish Blizzard never got back to 'improving' wc3 anymore. The previous patches already made it worse, and if this is true, this has become a game that was great due to the community, with the game creator doing everything to kill that off. Very strange and sad.

I hope they will revert that change, or that ENT can find a way to keep functioning. Please don't throw in the towel, but try to find a solution if this change is true. We can't live without ENT!
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Re: Concerning the next Warcraft 3 patch

Postby Meshtar » Fri Sep 28, 2018 10:12 pm

The moment Blizzard took to develop and improve wc3 experience I suspected their intentions, but now its clear as day. They want to shut down the game that stubbornly stayed alive for so many years simply because they don't have any more revenue from it yet it takes up their servers. This is just a sneaky way to do it to try to avoid community backlash and protest, in the guise of improving WC3. They know custom maps and autohosting bots are the heart of wc3 life so yeah, they are putting a stake through the heart and I am really a pessimist about our appeal making any difference at all.

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Re: Concerning the next Warcraft 3 patch

Postby EdgeOfChaos » Fri Sep 28, 2018 11:01 pm

I wouldn't mind losing bots, as long as they fix the issues with why we needed bots in the first place (already solved: port forwarding, cross-realm hosting. yet to solve: ingame commands, delay, saving stats)

Despite OHS basically being the game-ruiner haven, it is a shame to see another community go out. Yet the WC3 community will still survive, it always will, even if we have to play on old-version private servers to do it. I wonder what @slipperyslark @vaylen @king.kar are going to do now :(
Meshtar wrote:The moment Blizzard took to develop and improve wc3 experience I suspected their intentions, but now its clear as day. They want to shut down the game that stubbornly stayed alive for so many years simply because they don't have any more revenue from it yet it takes up their servers. This is just a sneaky way to do it to try to avoid community backlash and protest, in the guise of improving WC3. They know custom maps and autohosting bots are the heart of wc3 life so yeah, they are putting a stake through the heart and I am really a pessimist about our appeal making any difference at all.

This makes no sense. If they were really doing this to cut costs, they would not have hired... what 5-10 software engineers to work on the game for over a year now. Plus they're in Cali, so they've definitely spent more than a million dollars on salary and benefits for the team who is updating legacy games. It would just be cheaper to leave the server up and let it die naturally.

-----

Furthermore, if all games are now uploaded and played on the cloud, this means the end of WC3 hacking and map editing. My current perspective is that this is a good thing; and I say this as someone who used to be a significant person in the wc3 hacker community (props if you connect me to my old name)

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Re: Concerning the next Warcraft 3 patch

Postby Sylvanas » Sat Sep 29, 2018 1:11 am

EdgeOfChaos wrote:I wouldn't mind losing bots, as long as they fix the issues with why we needed bots in the first place (already solved: port forwarding, cross-realm hosting. yet to solve: ingame commands, delay, saving stats)

You say this as if there's a chance they'll implement any of those things within a million years. dota and ltd are fucked. If the dota and ltd regulars stop playing altogether, the other maps will also suffer. If people decide to flock to one private server or another, it'll once again divide the community. It's a completely unnecessary disaster, by courtesy of a bunch of disconnected developers who clearly haven't played wc3 on b.net in the last several years.

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Re: Concerning the next Warcraft 3 patch

Postby Astros » Sat Sep 29, 2018 1:28 am

EdgeOfChaos wrote:I wouldn't mind losing bots, as long as they fix the issues with why we needed bots in the first place (already solved: port forwarding, cross-realm hosting. yet to solve: ingame commands, delay, saving stats)

Despite OHS basically being the game-ruiner haven, it is a shame to see another community go out. Yet the WC3 community will still survive, it always will, even if we have to play on old-version private servers to do it. I wonder what @slipperyslark @vaylen @king.kar are going to do now :(
Meshtar wrote:The moment Blizzard took to develop and improve wc3 experience I suspected their intentions, but now its clear as day. They want to shut down the game that stubbornly stayed alive for so many years simply because they don't have any more revenue from it yet it takes up their servers. This is just a sneaky way to do it to try to avoid community backlash and protest, in the guise of improving WC3. They know custom maps and autohosting bots are the heart of wc3 life so yeah, they are putting a stake through the heart and I am really a pessimist about our appeal making any difference at all.

This makes no sense. If they were really doing this to cut costs, they would not have hired... what 5-10 software engineers to work on the game for over a year now. Plus they're in Cali, so they've definitely spent more than a million dollars on salary and benefits for the team who is updating legacy games. It would just be cheaper to leave the server up and let it die naturally.

-----

Furthermore, if all games are now uploaded and played on the cloud, this means the end of WC3 hacking and map editing. My current perspective is that this is a good thing; and I say this as someone who used to be a significant person in the wc3 hacker community (props if you connect me to my old name)


You are delusional if you think Blizzard will spend funds on keeping track of stats, manually banning players, watching replays of game-ruiners, etc., I think you've been convinced that they genuinely want to make the game better but it's no secret that this is an attempt to get rid of the game in a discreet procedure. What ENT provides are numerous individuals who spend their free time moderating and creating a platform for others to play because they love the game. The developers of Warcraft III are paid to follow the instructions of corporate leaders. It comes to a point where strategically, Warcraft III no longer makes sense for them and that is where a third-party like ENT can contribute and fill in the gap. I am clueless as to how they think these new patches will improve the game other than for those who play ladder. It genuinely is mind-boggling that every patch has successfully made it increasingly difficult to play a game that is rather, basic. I don't know how much it cost for Blizzard to run these servers or if they are losing money on them. What I do know is many players who played Warcraft III have stuck with Blizzard so if their reasoning is to destroy games because it no longer becomes profitable for them, I'm not sure why anyone would want to continue supporting them.
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EdgeOfChaos

Re: Concerning the next Warcraft 3 patch

Postby EdgeOfChaos » Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:14 am

The RPG communities have already moved to eurobattle fyi. And all serious players have already moved to dota 2; most people here including me just play dota for the lulz. Who plays for stats on dota 1 besides a few omega stackers like (a few people who I could name) who have something to prove to people on a 15+ year old dead game? What I think will probably happen is that in a few months from now, they'll release something that allows hosts to use ingame commands like kicking people, and it'll be up to everyone to moderate their own games.

Anyways it's always been known that Blizzard hates bots and wanted to kill them. Tbh I am surprised it took them this long. Their idea is: "third party programs are bad". This is also why they recruited mindworx and had him kill his own 3rd party world editor even though it's far superior to theirs. Oh yeah and Blizzard hardly listens to community feedback, and they care even less. I seriously doubt you'll convinice them to abandon a patch they've already coded. Meh. I am not really happy about it right now, but it's best to accept it as happening.

Also, ENT as I knew it already died when art)y left. This community isn't the one I was in and I've already said my goodbyes. There's nothing left for me here besides trolling and memeing, and I do not care strongly one way or another about 1.30.2.

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Re: Concerning the next Warcraft 3 patch

Postby opiemonster » Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:33 am

I've tried to hit all the key points in my reply to the blizzard post,

Thumbs it up here:

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/bnet/to ... 0#post-198

Hi Blizzard,

I understand your reasons for the changes, but we really care about this community, and we want you to be aware of the issues, so you don't make a naive decision that could damage the community.

With that said, here are 5 things you need to consider before making this change:

Dedicated servers to host games. Port forwarding is only a minor issue, the real issue is latency and if the host leave, the game ends.
Map Exposure Give map makers the ability to pay a fee to have their map hosted periodically. This allows mapmakers to get their maps played on a larger scale. You have to really support these guys, they are the foundation of the community. Give them opportunity and the potential to get their map to number 1.

One of the big reasons sc2 map making died was because the first maps that became somewhat popular, 'locked in', so nothing else could get played. If you are a map maker, and you can't get your map played, then it's simple, you stop making maps, and if that happens to enough map makers, nobody makes maps, and if nobody makes maps, wc3 dies.

Improve the vanilla browser. People don't really use the wc3 map browser anymore, we use ENT lobby and then just put the game name into the wc3 browser. It's simple, it's easier to navigate, you can see all the maps at once without needing to refresh with the game name, map name, server location and player count, line by line. I challenge you to match that level of usability.

Community self policing. We need to be able to kick and ban players from our games

Cloud hosted save states/rankings. This one is not as important, but If blizzard wants to truly match and exceed wc3 host bots, they need this functionality

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Re: Concerning the next Warcraft 3 patch

Postby Meshtar » Sat Sep 29, 2018 8:41 am

I am just amazed how well versed people here are in advanced finances and knowledge how to run a multi-billion dollar company.

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Re: Concerning the next Warcraft 3 patch

Postby theblitched » Sun Sep 30, 2018 2:30 pm

The issue with blizzards dedicated servers is that you can't choose your own latency.

For games that require fast response times you have to be able to set lower latency. Maps like Ice escape or 101 rounds and Banjo ball are simply unplayable with the standard latency settings.

If they will create dedicated servers they have to leave the freedom to the players. Allow players to choose what version of the map they want to play, let them decide the latency settings, allow players to kick/ban etc...


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