Glitches with Roof/Tree

[me_leva_nager]

I have been playing tree for a while now and noticed their are countless numbers of glitches i have seen with tree once you get scepter.

After i get scepter
-Can't use dust, pots, or tps
-Items that do not work are boots of travel, mjornir, abyssal
-With abyssal i can perma stun myself and anyone playing with no cooldown or mana used and they stay stunned until someone kills them
-I have gotten phase boots before and everytime i click to phase it turns me into windwalk mode with no cooldown
-I have encountered a time where I could not attack at all i was permanently disarmed even after dieing all i could do was cast spells
-Dagon does not work

I am sure their are much more glitches but this is what i have came across and experimenting with trying new items to see what works and what doesn't work. Again this problem only happens AFTER you make aghnim scepter.

[Dhamma]

-Items that do not work are boots of travel, mjornir, abyssal
-With abyssal i can perma stun myself and anyone playing with no cooldown or mana used and they stay stunned until someone kills them

According to your own words, abyssal does work.

I actually tested this in single player. It's not only until someone kills them. If they get bashed with a passive, the stun will expire at the end of the duration of the bash.

My testing ended when i bashed myself

[staalseminstaal]

Do you have a replay of these glitches happening? Would like to see it

[nitromon]

Ever since I found out about scepter Treant, I've played a lot of scepter Treant b/c it is fun and it is nostalgic. Abusing the glitch will get you banned, but if the glitch is against yourself you are allowed to use the hero (such as can't TP etc..). However, the more I play, the more I realized the scepter Treant is a trap. The scepter Treant is an unfinished addition before the latest officially supported map, therefore it is not really factored into the game.

Let's examine what happens.
- You can't rush the scepter. Treant is a caster and requires mana regen. If you rush a scepter from an empty start, your teammates are playing 4v5 b/c you cannot constantly global armor them without sufficient mana. So you require either soul ring, manaboot, or void stone. So given boots + mana is about 1500 and the scepter is 4200, that's a 5700 item.
- Once you finished the item, it is not effective until you use it. Placing 1 eye is not going to change the game. It is only effective if you can place many eyes. Not only is mana an issue, but the ability has a cooldown. Furthermore, you can no longer TP, so you can't TP to defend your base or TP back to a location to keep planting eyes. Chances are, if you are going to plant eyes all over your opponent's jungle, you need to stay there for a sustained amount of time.
- So by the time a typical player in a normal game farms the items and placed enough eyes, we're looking at the 30 min mark. By the 30 min mark your teammates have been playing 4v5 while you farm and place eyes, there are 3 possibilities:

1) Your teammates are in a 4v5 stalemate. This is a very rare situation and it is the only situation where your eyes will then tip the balance of the game.
2) Most commonly, your team of 4 is being pounded by the team of 5 and at this point they're already attempting to rax your base. Your eyes are actually useless. If your base can survive into much longer game, the eyes may become useful. But most of the time, your team will lose within 10-15 mins.
3) Last possibility, your team of 4 is destroying your opponent of 5. Your team of lesser players is winning, meaning the game is lopsided and the team of 5 are noobs getting trashed. Your eyes are pretty useless b/c your team obviously don't need them as they are doing just fine without them. Game usually ends within 10-15 mins.

So as you can see, you wasted the whole game farming an item that is not worth its value. That's why it is just for fun, but it really doesn't help the team nor the game.

[Sylvanas]

Summary: Playing dota with eyes is overrated. You're better off not using your eyes.

By the way I think that you're really overstating roof's need for mana. It's mostly a question of adapting to how much mana you're providing yourself with. A roof with base mana can still pull his own weight if he restricts his leech seeds to ganks/kill attempts and his armors for saves, while one with mana items can feel free to use them to harass and heal. Lots of roofs rush radiance, which is much more taxing manawise than scepter is, but it often pays off. Of course I'm talking of public games where everyone gets all the farm they want. A roof with quelling blade can be the worst possible ally to lane with as an item dependant carry when it should be the opposite.

[WolfPackMama]

It does have an alternative effect tho. Enemies nearby eyes take 175 damage per second, which makes your ultimate gain some damage alongside a huge AoE CC - but that on it's own is very situational. 875 damage to entire team (on lvl 16, on lvl 6 it does a surprising 525 of AoE damage) is a debatable good.

[Rain-]

@falenga

[nitromon]

By the way I think that you're really overstating roof's need for mana. It's mostly a question of adapting to how much mana you're providing yourself with. A roof with base mana can still pull his own weight if he restricts his leech seeds to ganks/kill attempts and his armors for saves, while one with mana items can feel free to use them to harass and heal.

Hmm, typically when I play roof, I start with 3 clarities. If my lane buddy is careful, I only have to use the armor and yes, if spaced properly it is sustainable. However, a lot of times, I get reckless teammates and I end up armoring more than usual globally. For example, a very ... aggressive SB. Those alone will wear down the clarities. But even worse, if my lane buddy is not careful and I have to use leech seed. So I would always have a soulring recipe.

It takes about 15-20 mins to farm the scepter, I've been doing it lately again to see if I could improve the timing since I'm not particularly a good farmer. So by around that time, I would have boot, soulring, and scepter... then I start placing the eyes, first strategically, then just try to cover as much as I can. I use invisbile to hide and then just walk around laying these eyes. I creep neutrals when I can and continue to monitor my teammates if they need armor. In some events, I even join teamfights if I'm near them and not far off the map laying eyes. But majority of my time, I'm laying eyes.

I'm beginning to have 2nd thoughts about my previous post. In 3 games I did this and the opponent got trashed. Not only so, I've been very successful in almost eyeing the whole map by 40 min mark. In the game, the enemy actually got culling axe and tried to take out the trees... but it was futile b/c I placed so many and the CD is so short. In the last game I just played, I read their chatlog and they were afraid to leave their base b/c they knew we got visions everywhere. Furthermore, the eyes are better than the sentries. You can place them on a tree that is below a cliff and it will still show the vision above the cliff (I'm guessing it is because the trees are tall and it is placed on the top of the tree).

I'm incline more to agree perhaps this strategy should be banned. At 20 min mark, each min on the team roofy is on gains a significant advantage... by 40-50 min, you can see the whole map.

[Burnt]

yea the strategy should def be banned since it makes the game 4v5

[WolfPackMama]

The thing is, Roof is a support hero. As such, you're likely either going to babysit a carry, or try to help hold against a suicide lane. If you're going to lasthit creeps, you're just underfarming your carry, which by the 20th minute when you have scepter, has a severe disadvantage compared to enemy team's carry, because Roof is a defensive support. He can't deny farm to the enemy team with his pizza making animation.

While an interesting scepter upgrade, most of the time it's not really worth it. You're likely going to do better just by racking up some utility items than you'll do going for scepter, as it's one of the worst items to build up with (only the Point Booster's gonna help you out as it's the most cost effective item, +10 stats per 1000 gold per item isn't going to do you much justice); whereas if you go for Euls + mana boots, for about the same cost, you'll never have mana issues and you'll have an additional disable that scales into lategame as well.

However, there are certain times when going scepter treant IS useful - when the rest of your team has heroes that can stomp through midgame, and that are very hard to gank without a good setup, such as Windrunner, Gyro, ... In that case, a 4v5 results in a stallmate until you grab a scepter, and then it tips dramatically to your team's favor.

But then again, we're talking about pub games, not coordinated in-houses. Treant scepter is garbage unless you've a team that knows when to afford to be aggressive.

[nitromon]

If you're going to lasthit creeps, you're just underfarming your carry

I never agree with that. I know, I've seen people in games get so mad when I kill creeps as a support hero. I just tell them to go fk themselves. In an EM game, creeping is not really as important as regular games. Also, when I carry, I get my gold from hunting heroes, not creeps. This is why I always disagree with people who start the game neutralling. It is a waste of time. Most people are rigid in their build, they copy other people and never try to improve. One of my hobbies in DOTA is trying to make lategame heroes more effective early game. Things like going MOM with Naix makes him quickly effective in early games, etc... without sacrificing too much in terms of time/item for lategame. What I hate most is some guy who picks a lategame carry and disappears for 30 mins, while his team plays 4v5 so he can farm items he need. Then this guy thinks he is all that and won the game.

Support heroes need gold too, everyone need gold. I've seen rhastas and CMs who use clarity to spam early spells on creeps for gold, getting their quick items so they can support carries better. The game is a team effort, no one player or type of player deserves any special treatment more than any other. One thing I forgot to mention in the above about roofy. usually by 20 mins, I start laying eyes. As I've said, I rarely even neutral or farm. I virtually disappear on a eye laying mission with my eyes on my allies to armor and protect them. By 40 mins, I would usually have a radiance ... purely just from the game dripping gold. Farming is overrated in EM, people lose gold b/c they feed and die.

Just my 2 cents.

[Burnt]

40min radiance would def change the game

just my 1 cent