Aghanism on Sky

[Sev]

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[EdgeOfChaos]

If you don't have enough mana recovery, the 0cd ult is pointless. It becomes strong when you can stack it 3+ times. Aghs is great, but imo it's best to get it after other items. Kind of similar to leshrac's scepter.

[ShinraCorp]

@sev

Veteran Skymage player here.

So, simply put, I believe aghanims is an extremely horrible decision. Escpecially early...

Allow me to explain. See, first we have a mana issue. Second, why go double ult when u can max amp dmg and loth gank woods/etc... Lothars is the most crucial element to Skys early game power in terms of ganking and manueverability. Lothar also removes the need for the stat boost, nevermind the double ult, that scepter would bestow.

Late game Sky can dominate even magic immune heroes given that the player obtains an Etheral Blade. This item creates such magic power that no hero can withstand it.

Final build for Sky is as follows...

Boots of Travel
Lothars
Etheral Blade
Guinsoo
Shivas
Bloodstone

[not2000elo]

@sev

Veteran Skymage player here.

So, simply put, I believe aghanims is an extremely horrible decision. Escpecially early...

Allow me to explain. See, first we have a mana issue. Second, why go double ult when u can max amp dmg and loth gank woods/etc... Lothars is the most crucial element to Skys early game power in terms of ganking and manueverability. Lothar also removes the need for the stat boost, nevermind the double ult, that scepter would bestow.

Late game Sky can dominate even magic immune heroes given that the player obtains an Etheral Blade. This item creates such magic power that no hero can withstand it.

Final build for Sky is as follows...

Boots of Travel
Lothars
Etheral Blade
Guinsoo
Shivas
Bloodstone

Ha ha ha... lothar is in general a terrible idea for any hero as long as you are playing against people that ACTUALLY know how to play dota. The only time it works is against absolute noobs. But please do pick sky and get a lothars in one of my games, I will make you feed like never before.

On the side note of scepter on Sky, it's absolutely a must. As long as it comes after bloodstone. If you have time to get all of this:
"Boots of Travel
Lothars
Etheral Blade
Guinsoo
Shivas
Bloodstone"

on sky well... let's put it this way, you've already lost.

Sky is and always will be a early to mid hero no matter what. If your are not absolutely dominating early and mid then you have already lost. Simple as that.

[Zeratul]

Usually prefer rushing bottle/ boots and then dagger; after that euls or mana boots (depending on necessity)

After that usually travels (might go for bloodstone or even ghost staff if rly necessary)

After that, finish bloodstone and go aghanims after - at this point it justifies it imo.

So ultimately:

Boots /bottle -> dagger -> euls -> travels -> bloodstone -> aghanims -> and then prolly guinsoo

Last item i always leave for situational (can be ethereal, rod of athos, necro book, orchids, skadi, shivas, etc. - rly depends on what i/team needs at that point)

[ShinraCorp]

@zeratul

I definitely agree with the dagger/euls combo. Excellent alternative to loth

[EdgeOfChaos]

If you use Lothars for running away, then it's useless against anyone with half a brain.
If you use it for initiation, then it can be fine but generally worse than dagger. A good player will sentry, but that costs and is not always reliable. Gems can easily be lost.

On Slark it is good because you can dispel dust and heal while invis.
On LC it is fine because you can dispel dust and it gives nice damage/AS and you can initiate duels with it

If you buy lothars on Sniper/Drow, then you need to uninstall. It's also probably not the best on skywrath.

[Sev]

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[ShinraCorp]

With lothar on sky all one needs to do, in order to achieve a kill, is get to the target and amp/ult. Throw an arcane bolt in there for good measure. So, that being said... It is not easily counterable. Why you may ask? First of all, the enemy can acquire dust, sure, but will this help them if they are dead by the time they use it? No. Also, sentries may be a nice counter. But, they also have their own special weakness. They cost 100 gold a piece, vision is lacking without observers (another 75 a piece) and another set back is that you can't reasonably place them everywhere that sky would be hunting. Alright, so how about a gem? Hmm. We don't even have to discuss the setbacks of buying a gem too early...

All in all...

Lothars is an excellent item. Especially paired with the hero in this topic. You'll gain stealth, postioning, attack speed, move speed and damage. Very suitable item for many many heroes--including sky

[Zeratul]

Have to disagree - Lothars can work against most pubs who are clueless on map awareness/teamwork, but against good players? You will be eaten alive long before you even get close enough to slow and ulti, and that's why i love when i see pubs going lothars as LC: most easiest kills ever due to that stupid item choice (true that you can armor, disabling dust and run after with lothars - but when you want to initiate with lothars, if you're playing vs a team that uses half their brain, u wont get through with that idea)

But again, same can be said on most items on X hero so ... honestly sky lothars is a waste of money tbh - 2800g, for what it does on sky, is a bad choice overall: I'd rather spend 2250g on the dagger and get euls after (which gives more int/mana pool & reg -> increasing bolt dmg, and ur mana pool/reg; more movement speed; and cyclone, which can help you prevent people from running,position or help you escape)

PS: We're somehow de-railing from the main point, which was agha's on Sky, and coming back to that, yes it is good/justifies getting it (not as first item obviously), but as soon as you can ensure you got enough mana to cast it at least 2-3 times in a row

[Burnt]

Very suitable item for many many heroes--including sky

Very suitable item against a bunch of noobs - including you

[Sylvanas]

Late game Sky can dominate even magic immune heroes given that the player obtains an Etheral Blade. This item creates such magic power that no hero can withstand it.

Such magic power that no hero can withstand it... Except, you know, those magic immune ones who don't care about your extra magic damage.

So why does everyone here agree lothar is terrible on drow and sniper anyway? They both benefit from the extra dps and lack an escape. I realize it's an extremely overused item, but if not on those heroes, who the hell do you think it's for?

[BeerLord]

I always lose interest in these threads when elite players comment on what and how the game should be played. I think that sometimes they lose site of the fact that what they do doesnt work for us normies with low skill. It doesnt matter if I build like hyo or edge because I cant play like them, and quite frankly when playing against elite players it matters not at all how I build I get owned anyway. So from the standpoint of a less skilled player an escape button like lothars does not mean I need to sell my computer or uninstall the game. It probably just means I should play less and mod more, so I can continue to enjoy the game without getting my ass kicked all of the time.

[Zeratul]

So why does everyone here agree lothar is terrible on drow and sniper anyway? They both benefit from the extra dps and lack an escape. I realize it's an extremely overused item, but if not on those heroes, who the hell do you think it's for?

I never mentioned it was bad on drow or sniper, just on sky it makes no sense (Sky is already squishy early game and lothars just makes you become even more, since you will be targeted and with dusts/orchids, lothars gives you nothing good for 2800g, that's all - Mb it does work for most of the public games, but against somewhat decent players/teams, you will be crushed easily imo, and i havent seen a single lothars sky proving me differently to accept it :p );

As far as Drow and Sniper goes, i do it myself as well ocasionally depending on the enemy team (If there's an annoying bara, or hunters like slark/riki/gondar etc. - Lothars becomes rather useless,and you should adapt to those, either by getting manta, getting more hp,linkens, etc.), so while lothars can work (even against those heroes - ill give you that: If well played, you can actually do it), you should always pay attention to who you're up against, to ensure you just dont end up farming 2800g for nothing (True, you get more dmg, more attack speed, an escape ... but what good is that for if you're getting ganked, where you cant rly escape that easily? just an example).

And yes Beerlord, i'm quite aware of how certain playstyles don't work for everyone, but that doens't have to do with skill - but with the player itself: How you adapt, how you play, your reflexes ingame, etc. (Yes it can be all included in skill if you want, altho i dont see it that way: Many players are "skilled", however cant play certain playstyles/heroes the way I do, and vice-versa: No matter what, me and nerubian assassin/rexxar never works - Yes i can end positive, bla bla bla, but comparing myself to some na/bm players ive seen, i easily classify myself as terrible on both).

Anyways, once again we're derailing from the main point of this topic which was the pros/cons of aghanims on skywrath to basically bash "pub" itembuilds, so rip :X

[Sylvanas]

I always lose interest in these threads when elite players comment on what and how the game should be played. I think that sometimes they lose site of the fact that what they do doesnt work for us normies with low skill. It doesnt matter if I build like hyo or edge because I cant play like them, and quite frankly when playing against elite players it matters not at all how I build I get owned anyway. So from the standpoint of a less skilled player an escape button like lothars does not mean I need to sell my computer or uninstall the game. It probably just means I should play less and mod more, so I can continue to enjoy the game without getting my ass kicked all of the time.

Getting lothars on drow or sniper can only be repaid by sacrificing your computer to the unholy flames of Satan and committing seppuku at midnight during a full moon.

I never mentioned it was bad on drow or sniper, just on sky it makes no sense (Sky is already squishy early game and lothars just makes you become even more, since you will be targeted and with dusts/orchids, lothars gives you nothing good for 2800g, that's all - Mb it does work for most of the public games, but against somewhat decent players/teams, you will be crushed easily imo, and i havent seen a single lothars sky proving me differently to accept it :p );

Agree about everything, but there really was a strong, unjustified anti-lothar movement going on in this thread. It's like people need to one-up one another about how much they think lothar is for n00bs EVEN MORE!!1!1!! than the guy before them.