IT'S TIME TO BAN MEEPO

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AndyMaster
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IT'S TIME TO BAN MEEPO

Postby AndyMaster » Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:25 pm

I have been playing Dota for years and frankly it doesn't matter what team you are on Meepo will win 90% of the time. He is an unbalanced character and he should be banned from the game. Who is with me? Who else is sick and tired of losing to ONE GUY?

Now I know some of you noobs out there will say that all you have to do is pick a lich or sven or warlock or earth shaker but you are. . . well noobs. There is no counter to meepo. Meepo will outcreep you, out push you and out fight you. The only defense is if EVERYONE on your team counters him. Which of course is impossible because Meepo players wait until you have picked to pick meepo. Why wouldn't we just make the game "even", where every player has a chance at winning. Enough with the Meepo vs ALL and still winning crap.

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Re: IT'S TIME TO BAN MEEPO

Postby EdgeOfChaos » Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:15 am

i'm a meepo main, though I don't play it much these days, and I'm gonna help you out

most of those heroes listed aren't good against meepo, and most losses to meepo are because most or all of the team doesn't understand the hero. it is easily counterable if you know what you're doing (but do keep in mind that is is possible to get outplayed and lose anyways even if you counter him ok)

Lich doesn't counter meepo. Why? The ult goes too slowly and is spread between all 5 meepos, who each have 3k+ hp (and any creeps/heroes around). He tps to fountain and heals fully afterwards and you just waste an ult he can easily eat.

Warlock doesn't counter meepo. It takes 2 autoattacks to kill the infernal, then you can roll in and kill lich and the rest of the team too. the net stops the slow from channeling. the fatal bond is good but its hard to use it without dying (you gotta get pretty close to get them with it). too close range for a caster to survive meepo.

ES is alright, great lockdown, but too many ES expect to solo kill meepo with the combo rather than using it for the main purpose: stun. This won't happen lategame so don't even bother.

Sven DOES counter meepo and is the best pick here. But you gotta be good at the hero. Do NOT pick sven for the first time against a good meepo. You need a BKB and damage, and you need it fast before he ends. Without BKB + ult, you are pure food, but with it, you may be able to destroy the meepo.

you need to focus and EXPLOIT meepo's weaknesses.
to list them out here, these are the strengths and weaknesses of meepo.

Strengths:
- Insane farming/pushing ability
- 1000+ damage huge area nuke
- Very long/permanent ensnare and 100% MS slow
- High benefit from stat items
- Gets ulti at level 3, providing a very strong early game
- Low respawn times, no buyback restriction
- Teleport away if not stunned at any time
Weaknesses:
- Cannot benefit from non-stat items (such as: BKB, MKB, magic resistance)
- Requires microing 5 heroes
- If one meepo dies, they all die
- Extreme vulnerability to lockdown (silence+slow, OR stun)

-----

so how do you counter meepo? let me give you a few more techniques/heroes.

1: Leshrac. This is THE natural meepo counter and has a response to all of meepo's strengths. Is meepo trying to channel poof? Just throw a Split Earth on him, it even hits all 5! Is he running? You have an answer: just run with him and let him die to pulses, or slow him with thunder. Did he net you? Luckily leshrac is a natural builder of either ghost staff or cyclone stick, allowing you to escape. Does he have a shitton of HP? Well nothing can survive pulse nova. It simply deals too much damage to tank through. Is meepo farming too much? Well, Lesh is one of the few heroes who can actually farm and push just as hard as meepo. Turn on pulse nova and creepwave disappears, turn on edict and a tower is at half HP all of the sudden. Best of all, Lesh is actually not hard to play. It requires far more skill to play meepo than it does to play leshrac. This is the only hero who will force me to -repick if I see it because I have not found a consistent way to beat Lesh as meepo besides outplaying it hard.

Even after he kills you, bloodstone brings you back in 10 seconds! And the #1 reason to pick leshrac: meepo CANNOT build magic resistance or BKB. Why? Because it only goes on the main meepo, and all 5 need to survive.

Weaknesses: leshrac is extremely vulnerable to sheep stick + blink combo, and this is the true way to kill it. Even then, it is not at all guaranteed you can beat it.

2: Rikimaru. Now THIS is a difficult hero to counter meepo with, because you gotta farm hard. Riki's early game is worthless and a good meepo will abuse that. But if you farm a couple items, meepo is in serious trouble. Because the cloud counters literally everything meepo can do. It can't teleport, it can't net you. It can't even ATTACK! That's right, meepo cannot benefit from MKB, so he's gonna be missing 70% of his attacks. Add that backstab damage that goes through armor and purge him in the cloud, focus a meepo, and you're a meepo killing machine. Get to lategame and meepo has no chance. A 6-slotted meepo will for sure die to a 6-slotted riki.

Weaknesses: high vulnerability early game, he can shut you down before you ever get to do anything.

3: Ember. This hero turns Meepo's greatest strength against it. Build several battlefury and high damage, and you can literally one shot a meepo if they clump all 5 together. Unfortunately no one even knows how to play this hero acceptably anymore besides this one guy who picks it all the time in pubs, so it's hardly even worth mentioning.

4: Silencer. It's a guaranteed long silence on every meepo. Of course if they are strong enough to autoattack through the entire team it's not even gonna matter, but sometimes it can really mess him up if he wants to escape.

5: LC. Meepo has no stun and so can't really fight a LC, he'll recover more damage than he takes if he has acceptable items. my favorite technique is to approach meepo in lothar, wait for the teleport/poof away, and duel a meepo at the last moment, isolating it.

Weaknesses: shut down by sheepstick

6: Bara + another ganker. Bara can prevent a chosen meepo from running/teleporting.

For techniques to beat meepo: group and push early is a good one. One of meepo's strengths is that he can push hard and take towers, so turn it around and out-tower him! Meepo really can't go in against several heroes until he has farmed the core (travel+aghs+skaddi usually), which will be around 18-25 minutes.

Meepo heavily relies on wards, and eliminating heroes who are soloing. You can counter that.

-----

dont have many replays right now
https://entgaming.net/findstats.php?id=10824630 - here's me countering meepo with huskar, they picked lesh so I couldn't. IIRC this meepo was around 1300 ELO
https://entgaming.net/findstats.php?id=10824196 - 22/7 against a meepo, using lesh. won the game. to be fair he was trash, went vlads
https://entgaming.net/findstats.php?id=10807224 - same meepo as first game, defeted with lesh
https://entgaming.net/findstats.php?id=10867967 - meepo countered by axe
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yungchlo (Tue Aug 28, 2018 5:40 pm) • Apoth (Tue Aug 28, 2018 5:02 am)

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Re: IT'S TIME TO BAN MEEPO

Postby Apoth » Tue Aug 28, 2018 5:04 am

Doesn't matter how much help you'll give them. @EdgeOfChaos

According to some people like Gameruiner, if you outplay/win against them, they automatically make the royal decree that you're obviously using a poof macro, because they can do no such thing as poor plays.
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EdgeOfChaos (Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:52 pm)
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Re: IT'S TIME TO BAN MEEPO

Postby MageOfTime » Tue Aug 28, 2018 5:19 am

get rid of easy mode then meepo stops being a problem

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Re: IT'S TIME TO BAN MEEPO

Postby FollowingPath » Tue Aug 28, 2018 5:36 am

I just play carry Winter Wyvern against Meepo pickers, because the ult is so insane in Wc3. So far I'm 9/14 in making them ragequit. Just hunt him around the map, use your ult on the best target, splinter on a different target to hit the one you ult'd, and focus it down with MoM and medallion. You can literally solo Meepo as Winter Wyvern if you get a good ult off.
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Re: IT'S TIME TO BAN MEEPO

Postby Sylvanas » Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:09 am

FollowingPath wrote:I just play carry Winter Wyvern against Meepo pickers, because the ult is so insane in Wc3. So far I'm 9/14 in making them ragequit. Just hunt him around the map, use your ult on the best target, splinter on a different target to hit the one you ult'd, and focus it down with MoM and medallion. You can literally solo Meepo as Winter Wyvern if you get a good ult off.

It's kinda telling when the #1 meepo counter ultimately consists in having him kill himself for you.

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Re: IT'S TIME TO BAN MEEPO

Postby yungchlo » Tue Aug 28, 2018 5:43 pm

@edgeofchaos awesome write up!

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Re: IT'S TIME TO BAN MEEPO

Postby Yarragon » Tue Aug 28, 2018 5:56 pm

FollowingPath wrote:I just play carry Winter Wyvern against Meepo pickers, because the ult is so insane in Wc3. So far I'm 9/14 in making them ragequit. Just hunt him around the map, use your ult on the best target, splinter on a different target to hit the one you ult'd, and focus it down with MoM and medallion. You can literally solo Meepo as Winter Wyvern if you get a good ult off.


This. Meepo literally dies to an R press from wyvern as soon as he shows up with his whole heroes.
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Re: IT'S TIME TO BAN MEEPO

Postby EdgeOfChaos » Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:50 pm

You're right, I totally forgot about WW, he does kill meepo quite well. As a meepo, I used to try to build tanky against WW and it sometimes worked, but these days I just go dagger hexblade and kill it before it ults. And a lategame counter is to rosh and save buyback gold, since WW can only kill you once (or twice with refresher), the remaining life should be enough to kill the enemies. I still think leshrac is a better counter overall, though.

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Re: IT'S TIME TO BAN MEEPO

Postby Astros » Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:52 pm

Meepo only rapes in a pub game because the majority of pubs simply do not know how to work as a collective unit. A solid team would be able to counter meepo quite easily but it doesn't take much to win a game with meepo when the other team refuses to work together. Hero selection does matter as well so some games, you're really just stuck in an unfortunate situation. You're going to need at least 2-3 disables to properly immobilize a meepo.

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Re: IT'S TIME TO BAN MEEPO

Postby EdgeOfChaos » Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:06 pm

^ exactly correct, i can't stress how important disables are against a meepo

Without disables, a proper meepo player will just not die. He can be in the fountain in 2.5 seconds, from anywhere on the map. Plus he can just net and run if he doesn't want to risk the teleport.

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Re: IT'S TIME TO BAN MEEPO

Postby tinkertonker » Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:40 pm

Dont forget techies bombs and statis :P

Meepo is melee and cannot use bkb for his clones. Great meepos will never beat a great techies.

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Re: IT'S TIME TO BAN MEEPO

Postby Letbell » Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:09 am

tinkertonker wrote:Dont forget techies bombs and statis :P

Meepo is melee and cannot use bkb for his clones. Great meepos will never beat a great techies.


This.

Even a bad techies can ruin a meepo game even by little.

Techies should be banned.



Here's why techies should be banned and why meepo shouldn't.
Bad meepo = Ruined his own games
Good meepo = Win games

Good techies = Win games
Bad techies = Still win games

Now you see why techies should be banned.

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Re: IT'S TIME TO BAN MEEPO

Postby Sylvanas » Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:55 am

Letbell wrote:Now you see why techies should be banned.

No, now I still don't see. I literally have no idea what you just tried to say.

Astros wrote:Meepo only rapes in a pub game because the majority of pubs simply do not know how to work as a collective unit. A solid team would be able to counter meepo quite easily but it doesn't take much to win a game with meepo when the other team refuses to work together. Hero selection does matter as well so some games, you're really just stuck in an unfortunate situation. You're going to need at least 2-3 disables to properly immobilize a meepo.

Yes, this is meepo's specific weakness, unlike all those heroes who can deal just fine with an entire team unloading everything at them while chaining hard disables.
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Re: IT'S TIME TO BAN MEEPO

Postby Letbell » Fri Aug 31, 2018 1:49 pm

Sylvanas wrote:Letbell wrote:
Now you see why techies should be banned.

No, now I still don't see. I literally have no idea what you just tried to say.


What I am trying to say is... no matter how bad someone play tech, they would still win game regardless.


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