It should require 5/5 !ff votes to forfeit or there should be punishment for teammates forfeiting too early.
I just lost this game for no reason at all when we had not even lost a rax yet due to my 4 teammates forfeiting out of frustration of fighting in a terrible spot. Even though they fed in that fight the game was anything but over infact I could argue that was I very close to winning it with LC.
https://entgaming.net/openstats/game/12258636/
lets talk about !ff
-
GuessWhosBack
- Aura Tree
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2025 4:15 pm
- Been thanked: 2 times
Re: lets talk about !ff
Wow Wow Wow, what are my eyes seen? I`m very curios what kind of answers you will get, because when i opened a topic about this it was closed pretty quick. Also in my first topic from many years ago, one admin said "the low skilled players have the same rights as you".
Anyway, i agree with you 500% the rule sucks especially when some guys feed badly in the first 10 minutes and they forfeit. I lost many games like this when players gave up so damn easily, but the frustration is that they will never realize that a bad start is not certainty game lost. I also won games when me and my team had a terrible start and let me say that those kind of games are very satisfying at the end.
In my oppinion there should be some kind of punishment for players who fed and ff in the fist 15 minutes. Moreover a severe punishment for the player/players who force other to ff.
Anyway, i agree with you 500% the rule sucks especially when some guys feed badly in the first 10 minutes and they forfeit. I lost many games like this when players gave up so damn easily, but the frustration is that they will never realize that a bad start is not certainty game lost. I also won games when me and my team had a terrible start and let me say that those kind of games are very satisfying at the end.
In my oppinion there should be some kind of punishment for players who fed and ff in the fist 15 minutes. Moreover a severe punishment for the player/players who force other to ff.
-
Jazzy3113
- Treant Protector
- Posts: 705
- Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2016 5:15 pm
- Has thanked: 26 times
- Been thanked: 28 times
Re: lets talk about !ff
Completely disagree. 4/5 is the super majority and if 80% of your team wants to quit, they should be allowed to do so.
You do not have to deal with the trolls and ruiners that I do. If !ff required all 5 teammates, the troll on my team would never ff, and keep tossing me into the enemy.
In fact, I think its insane how high the requirement is to kick someone. For example, instead of it requiring 8 or 9 people to votekick the troll, it should simply require all 4 teammates plus just 1 or 2 from the other team. Because the other team NEVER EVER kicks my trolls. Because they need the troll to win.
Also, if someone leaves in the first 5 mins, the game should be an auto draw. I always draw but my opponents NEVER draw when I get a leaver.
Recent example of what lengths people will go to just to troll me.
We had been waiting about an hour for a game. Finally the final person joins the lobby. Chimps then leaves the game, signs out of his account, signs into his troll account, rejoins the lobby, announces its him and he doesnt care. Proceeds to feed and ruin the game. Just think about that. He waits an hour, just to log into his troll account and then doesnt even play bad, plays horribly. This is the kind of stuff I deal with constantly. So in that scenario if ff required all 5 teammates, Chimps would never ff, since he wanted to waste everyone's time, just to troll me.
You do not have to deal with the trolls and ruiners that I do. If !ff required all 5 teammates, the troll on my team would never ff, and keep tossing me into the enemy.
In fact, I think its insane how high the requirement is to kick someone. For example, instead of it requiring 8 or 9 people to votekick the troll, it should simply require all 4 teammates plus just 1 or 2 from the other team. Because the other team NEVER EVER kicks my trolls. Because they need the troll to win.
Also, if someone leaves in the first 5 mins, the game should be an auto draw. I always draw but my opponents NEVER draw when I get a leaver.
Recent example of what lengths people will go to just to troll me.
We had been waiting about an hour for a game. Finally the final person joins the lobby. Chimps then leaves the game, signs out of his account, signs into his troll account, rejoins the lobby, announces its him and he doesnt care. Proceeds to feed and ruin the game. Just think about that. He waits an hour, just to log into his troll account and then doesnt even play bad, plays horribly. This is the kind of stuff I deal with constantly. So in that scenario if ff required all 5 teammates, Chimps would never ff, since he wanted to waste everyone's time, just to troll me.
-
RichardCoffee
- Treant
- Posts: 356
- Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2022 1:49 am
- Has thanked: 24 times
- Been thanked: 37 times
Re: lets talk about !ff
You might want to type something like, 'we can still win' or 'we are fine' into allied chat so the team knows. I've prevented FFs by doing this and saw others prevent FFs by communicating that they saw a win was realistically possible.
-
Frank
- Treant
- Posts: 270
- Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:54 pm
- Has thanked: 18 times
- Been thanked: 34 times
Re: lets talk about !ff
GuessWhosBack wrote:Wow Wow Wow, what are my eyes seen? I`m very curios what kind of answers you will get, because when i opened a topic about this it was closed pretty quick. Also in my first topic from many years ago, one admin said "the low skilled players have the same rights as you".
care to link me the previous discussions so I can see what was argued? if not that's cool, I'm sure opinions can change over time
Jazzy3113 wrote:Completely disagree. 4/5 is the super majority and if 80% of your team wants to quit, they should be allowed to do so.
Yes I would normally agree with you but the issue is that on the rare cases where the 1 player is correct he is given 0 input and there's too much grey area so you can't ban the abusers. Why not have it 5/5 and then use the votekick command (which I see you also dont agree with but you can make a seperate thread for that) to kick the one player not voting and holding the team hostage. Either way bans can be applied easier for either side. The alternative being, draw a hard line and say you can't !ff before a rax falls but even then its not perfect. I won't be dealing with your chimps vendetta here please submit a ban request on him instead.
RichardCoffee wrote:You might want to type something like, 'we can still win' or 'we are fine' into allied chat so the team knows. I've prevented FFs by doing this and saw others prevent FFs by communicating that they saw a win was realistically possible.
This is a very proactive thing to do ofc but I was honestly caught offguard and they all insta ffed fast before I could even gather any thoughts lol... And I usually do say something along those lines when the games looking hard.
-
EdteOfChaos2
- Treant
- Posts: 360
- Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2019 8:24 pm
- Has thanked: 68 times
- Been thanked: 108 times
Re: lets talk about !ff
Definitely a discussion that needs to be had about people giving up too early, but honestly if 4 people want to just have the game end, I sort of doubt that they will try hard enough to turn the game around even if not allowed to FF. From the score looks like everyone else on that team were getting owned badly.
-
Frank
- Treant
- Posts: 270
- Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:54 pm
- Has thanked: 18 times
- Been thanked: 34 times
Re: lets talk about !ff
EdteOfChaos2 wrote:Definitely a discussion that needs to be had about people giving up too early, but honestly if 4 people want to just have the game end, I sort of doubt that they will try hard enough to turn the game around even if not allowed to FF. From the score looks like everyone else on that team were getting owned badly.
in my game specifically there was no talking about giving up or any chance of discussion. They way it played out was 1 person !ff then the next and so on... in a period of less than 10 seconds. It was more of a herd mentality situation. If I had been given a chance to speak about it or play out the upcoming fight where all my teammates were about respawn and I was about to pressure top rax or fight with my team.. idk.. Thats what stings the most not knowing how it would have played out. But sure if anything good comes out of this I hope its more awareness and more effort and less giving up at the first sight of struggle.
-
h3rmit
- Armored Tree
- Posts: 87
- Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 12:15 am
- Has thanked: 9 times
- Been thanked: 63 times
Re: lets talk about !ff
I generally don't give up easily. I'm usually the last guy to !ff, and in most forfeited games I'm the only one who hasn't voted. I've seen even the most desperate games turning around against all odds. The outcome of a battle can never be determined if the battle isn't fought.
That said, the proposal to change the required votes to 5/5 is very risky. It would give the power to any player, in any game, under any circumstances, to issue an absolute veto that overrides the decision and wishes of a 4/5 supermajority.
While there may be a few people that can judge better than the majority, it's not the rule. 4 people can, more often than not, judge better than 1 person.
By implementing this change, you'd give everyone the power, whenever they see fit, for whatever reason, to keep everyone trapped in a pointless game they don't want to play, waiting on the fountain for several minutes or keep dying repeatedly and aimlessly, worsening their stats.
What would you do if you were on the side of the 4 people voting, but there was one 5th guy, disagreeing with you and everyone else? Cause sooner or later you'll find yourself in this situation if your proposal is implemented.
By requiring a second person to disagree with forfeiting, it's at least not left up to the whims of every random person to decide.
Other than relying on the subjective view of one person, are there any objective and measurable criteria you would suggest for the prevention of irrational !ff? For example, in my previous community, we had 3 configurable conditions in place:
That said, the proposal to change the required votes to 5/5 is very risky. It would give the power to any player, in any game, under any circumstances, to issue an absolute veto that overrides the decision and wishes of a 4/5 supermajority.
While there may be a few people that can judge better than the majority, it's not the rule. 4 people can, more often than not, judge better than 1 person.
By implementing this change, you'd give everyone the power, whenever they see fit, for whatever reason, to keep everyone trapped in a pointless game they don't want to play, waiting on the fountain for several minutes or keep dying repeatedly and aimlessly, worsening their stats.
What would you do if you were on the side of the 4 people voting, but there was one 5th guy, disagreeing with you and everyone else? Cause sooner or later you'll find yourself in this situation if your proposal is implemented.
By requiring a second person to disagree with forfeiting, it's at least not left up to the whims of every random person to decide.
Other than relying on the subjective view of one person, are there any objective and measurable criteria you would suggest for the prevention of irrational !ff? For example, in my previous community, we had 3 configurable conditions in place:
- Required votes: 65% (4/5, 3/4, 2/3, 2/2)
- Minimum game duration: 32 minutes (AP games)
- Minimum team kills difference: 15 (you had to be on the losing side)
- Having a leaver on your team removed the game duration and kill difference conditions.
-
GuessWhosBack
- Aura Tree
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2025 4:15 pm
- Been thanked: 2 times
Re: lets talk about !ff
Well that could be something, but now you can ff after 7 min of gameplay ( 5min only if consider the 2 min of hero picking).
I dont find the post unfortunately, but i remember that i propose some suggestions like: at least 20 min gameplay, retake !ff (as you can do with !draw) within 5 minutes or also !yes or !no for the enemy team to accept the forfeit.
Like frank said, is not fair for someone who actually involve and try hard to win a game, but some plebs just go 0-6 in the first 10 minutes and actually force other to forfeit, only because they have bad start or just trolling.
I dont find the post unfortunately, but i remember that i propose some suggestions like: at least 20 min gameplay, retake !ff (as you can do with !draw) within 5 minutes or also !yes or !no for the enemy team to accept the forfeit.
Like frank said, is not fair for someone who actually involve and try hard to win a game, but some plebs just go 0-6 in the first 10 minutes and actually force other to forfeit, only because they have bad start or just trolling.
-
MIKEJONES
- ENT Staff
- Posts: 571
- Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2023 12:32 pm
- Has thanked: 55 times
- Been thanked: 215 times
Re: lets talk about !ff
Let me share my perspective: the frequent use of !ff and many daily issues in Dota are merely symptoms of deeper, underlying problems within the community.
We are facing challenges in maintaining a vibrant, competitive spirit that defines great matches, as discussed in the ENT Gaming Dota Gameplay Expectations post (viewtopic.php?f=7&t=148678). A stagnant player pool and diminishing key elements, trust, effort, team spirit, awareness, and mentorship from skilled players are eroding the quality of games. To address this, we must understand the underlying issues and adopt a positive, cohesive approach to revitalize the community.
The Decline of Core Gameplay Ingredients
The essence of competitive Dota lies in trust, sustained effort, team spirit, situational awareness, and the presence of skilled players who inspire growth in others. However, these elements are fading:
Trust and Team Spirit: Many players adopt a selfish mindset, trusting only themselves and reserving positive attitudes for teams with proven high-skill players. This shift from trust-first to self-first play undermines the cooperation needed to outplay opponents.
Effort and Resilience: Players often give up early, interpreting initial setbacks—like feeding twice in the first five minutes or a team wipe—as game-ending. This weak spirit fosters disengagement and reduces overall game quality.
Awareness and Mentorship: A lack of team spirit breeds fear and mistrust, clouding players’ awareness and clarity. The scarcity of high-tier players willing to guide others further limits opportunities for lower-tier players to learn and improve.
This cycle of mistrust and disengagement creates a feedback loop, deterring new players and stifling community growth.
The Nature of Dota’s Environment
Dota’s design thrives on friction and confrontation, inherently amplifying emotions. Mistakes can feel intentional, and high-stakes moments fuel negative perceptions. When players carry grudges or preconceived notions about others into future games, it leads to:
Negative Bias: Players may label others as unreliable based on past mistakes, stifling their growth and fostering hostility.
Adjusted Gameplay: Disliking a teammate can lead to altered, suboptimal playstyles, further weakening team synergy.
Toxic Communication: Negative perceptions often manifest as harsh words, escalating tensions and degrading the game experience.
This environment, while part of Dota’s competitive charm, can spiral into toxicity if not addressed.
A Wholesome Solution: Promoting Positivity
To restore the community’s vibrancy, we must embrace Dota’s challenging nature while letting go of negativity. Here’s how:
Leave Negativity at Game’s End: Treat each match as a fresh start. Mistakes, poor teamwork, or bad performances should not carry over. Holding onto grudges silos players and poisons future games.
Foster Positivity: Encourage positive communication, even in high-pressure moments. A simple “nice try” or “let’s regroup” can rebuild trust and morale.
Embrace the Learning Curve: Recognize that mistakes are part of Dota’s design. Support teammates’ growth rather than criticizing errors, creating a culture of mentorship.
Build Team Spirit: Actively engage with teammates, regardless of their skill level. Trust-first playstyles can inspire others to reciprocate, enhancing coordination and enjoyment.
Community Initiatives: Promote discussions on forum that emphasize positivity, teamwork, and shared growth to attract and retain players.
We are facing challenges in maintaining a vibrant, competitive spirit that defines great matches, as discussed in the ENT Gaming Dota Gameplay Expectations post (viewtopic.php?f=7&t=148678). A stagnant player pool and diminishing key elements, trust, effort, team spirit, awareness, and mentorship from skilled players are eroding the quality of games. To address this, we must understand the underlying issues and adopt a positive, cohesive approach to revitalize the community.
The Decline of Core Gameplay Ingredients
The essence of competitive Dota lies in trust, sustained effort, team spirit, situational awareness, and the presence of skilled players who inspire growth in others. However, these elements are fading:
Trust and Team Spirit: Many players adopt a selfish mindset, trusting only themselves and reserving positive attitudes for teams with proven high-skill players. This shift from trust-first to self-first play undermines the cooperation needed to outplay opponents.
Effort and Resilience: Players often give up early, interpreting initial setbacks—like feeding twice in the first five minutes or a team wipe—as game-ending. This weak spirit fosters disengagement and reduces overall game quality.
Awareness and Mentorship: A lack of team spirit breeds fear and mistrust, clouding players’ awareness and clarity. The scarcity of high-tier players willing to guide others further limits opportunities for lower-tier players to learn and improve.
This cycle of mistrust and disengagement creates a feedback loop, deterring new players and stifling community growth.
The Nature of Dota’s Environment
Dota’s design thrives on friction and confrontation, inherently amplifying emotions. Mistakes can feel intentional, and high-stakes moments fuel negative perceptions. When players carry grudges or preconceived notions about others into future games, it leads to:
Negative Bias: Players may label others as unreliable based on past mistakes, stifling their growth and fostering hostility.
Adjusted Gameplay: Disliking a teammate can lead to altered, suboptimal playstyles, further weakening team synergy.
Toxic Communication: Negative perceptions often manifest as harsh words, escalating tensions and degrading the game experience.
This environment, while part of Dota’s competitive charm, can spiral into toxicity if not addressed.
A Wholesome Solution: Promoting Positivity
To restore the community’s vibrancy, we must embrace Dota’s challenging nature while letting go of negativity. Here’s how:
Leave Negativity at Game’s End: Treat each match as a fresh start. Mistakes, poor teamwork, or bad performances should not carry over. Holding onto grudges silos players and poisons future games.
Foster Positivity: Encourage positive communication, even in high-pressure moments. A simple “nice try” or “let’s regroup” can rebuild trust and morale.
Embrace the Learning Curve: Recognize that mistakes are part of Dota’s design. Support teammates’ growth rather than criticizing errors, creating a culture of mentorship.
Build Team Spirit: Actively engage with teammates, regardless of their skill level. Trust-first playstyles can inspire others to reciprocate, enhancing coordination and enjoyment.
Community Initiatives: Promote discussions on forum that emphasize positivity, teamwork, and shared growth to attract and retain players.
-
Frank
- Treant
- Posts: 270
- Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:54 pm
- Has thanked: 18 times
- Been thanked: 34 times
Re: lets talk about !ff
I was thinking about this some more and why Dota 2 doesn't have it as an option at all. I'm not suggesting we remove it, im just thinking out loud.
It's one of the most anti competitive commands a game like Dota can have. It gives you a mental checkout that if your having a bad early game you have that option to forfeit and not invest anymore effort, and usually all it takes is for the first person to type !ff to start this chain of thinking. What if you didn't have it at all? When the option is removed and the mental crutch is taken away, I think people would naturally think outside of the box and come up with solutions to what could seem like unwinnable games. I think it stagnates a players growth. What I think happened with ENT was the !ff command was an appealing feature at the time when ENT had many competitors of where you could play dota 1 and it was viewed as the more casual place to be.
At the end of the day some people use this place more as a social hub and a quick dopamine hit.
I just wonder when did that initial appeal of getting better at something go away... Oh well, I'll still always love ENT for all the memories.
It's one of the most anti competitive commands a game like Dota can have. It gives you a mental checkout that if your having a bad early game you have that option to forfeit and not invest anymore effort, and usually all it takes is for the first person to type !ff to start this chain of thinking. What if you didn't have it at all? When the option is removed and the mental crutch is taken away, I think people would naturally think outside of the box and come up with solutions to what could seem like unwinnable games. I think it stagnates a players growth. What I think happened with ENT was the !ff command was an appealing feature at the time when ENT had many competitors of where you could play dota 1 and it was viewed as the more casual place to be.
At the end of the day some people use this place more as a social hub and a quick dopamine hit.
I just wonder when did that initial appeal of getting better at something go away... Oh well, I'll still always love ENT for all the memories.
-
dumpster_
- Forest Walker
- Posts: 111
- Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 9:51 pm
- Has thanked: 29 times
- Been thanked: 31 times
Re: lets talk about !ff
For me it's a question of what's more common and what stings more.
Being forced to ff prematurely by 4 players vs. being held hostage in a guaranteed losing game.
The first of these is less common but stings a lot more.
The second is more common but is not as big of a deal.
In the vast majority of cases if a game is truly 100% guaranteed to be lost, it'll be over soon enough.
One might say something similar about the 1st case - that if 4 people feel it's over then in the vast majority of cases it's basically guaranteed to be over.
I don't think that's true. They're wrong often enough.
I would support requiring 5 votes.
Being held hostage occassionally for a few minutes is the lesser evil in my opinion.
Being forced to ff prematurely by 4 players vs. being held hostage in a guaranteed losing game.
The first of these is less common but stings a lot more.
The second is more common but is not as big of a deal.
In the vast majority of cases if a game is truly 100% guaranteed to be lost, it'll be over soon enough.
One might say something similar about the 1st case - that if 4 people feel it's over then in the vast majority of cases it's basically guaranteed to be over.
I don't think that's true. They're wrong often enough.
I would support requiring 5 votes.
Being held hostage occassionally for a few minutes is the lesser evil in my opinion.
-
GodSaveTheQQs
- Forest Walker
- Posts: 121
- Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2015 9:16 pm
- Has thanked: 279 times
- Been thanked: 42 times
Re: lets talk about !ff
I think i would support 5 votes too. The reason is simple. I generally like to play a game till the end. I rarely vote for !ff only when the game is over like 150%.
Specially now where our community is small and we have to wait 20-35-50 mins at the lobby for a game to start. And then the game starts. And lets say it goes terrible for me and my allies in the first 10 minutes (something that happens quite often) i ruin, get ganked, the team are nowhere and we lack communication and tactics. And then the flaming starts. But we are still at the very beginning. Meaning that if we have a small chance of turning this game, why we should not chasing it ?
why we should flame each other, cry and chat relentlessly (hello Jazzy) than trying to have a competitive game, cooperation and a result that will give us joy regardless of winning or losing. If we win it's a miracle, if we gonna lose it's a message that we did our best after all and maybe next time we should not underestimate ourselves and skills. Even if we are doing it all wrong.
I dont know how many times i ve won games that were 95% lost from the 5 first minutes against a super good stacked team when we were the underdongs and my team forced me to !ff but i refused. The game was played quietly and slowly we were getting a slightly advantage over and over until we won it. Sometimes !ignore helps to calm down and focusing on game. Thousand of times i find my self tryin to explain my allies that its not over until we are fully raxed and we should try to do our best even with one rax remaining.
Often i was on the other side. I was in super good team owning everyone at start i had a nice score but mid game after we raxed everything and only main base remained we didnt knew what to do. The gangs stopped, we had no other tower to rax and we were starting to lose some fights. We stopped talking and communicating, frustration comes on top cause a game that should have ended in the first 20 mins now becomes a 50 min game and we are still struggling to win it. Result ? lose ofc.
But thats the magic after all. If the enemy team choose to !ff in the first 10 min they would never have the opportunity to turn the result around.
We all are losing so much energy and concentration to undermine our own efforts than empower our own teammates. Even if only 1 player is good and the other 4 sucks. The nature of this game is so weird. Its that what me and H3rmit discussed yesterday completely coincidentally. We play an 30 year old game while the majority of people here are over 35years. I m 41, H3rmit the same, Mike the same, some even have family, children etc and still we found ourselves arguing and behaving ingame like 16 year kiddos feeling we are "pro" gamers or like "pro managers" in top professional team who like to be top bosses and point finger everyone while they are playin flawless without any mistake. Like we earn money from Dota lol.
I mean ok guys relax a little. Ok i understand its nice to play a competitive game, i like to play and win in every game too but lets calm a bit. Some players doesnt have the proper skills to play above a certain level (myself included) others doesnt play carry heroes (myself included) others play 1-2 heros at most, others dont wanna improve or cant improve and others are good - average but super toxic wasting all their energy to flame their teammates instead of trying to win the game.
Countless chats are like this:
"hey guys i'm the only one who tries here and none of you respond" (when the person who writes it, is the first who knows that the team are dying to protect the carry so he can win late game)
"hey wtf you leave me alone dying" (when all dies in battle except maybe one person who escapes or happens farming on the others side)
"hey you all ruining here" (when the one who writes it is the one who ruins the most but thinks he is better than the others)
"ok !ff time i m done here" (after the first 3 deaths wants to quit easily)
"no i wont carry this noob ass" (when one person is at flame war with another person forgetting about the other three in the team)
"this team doesnt deserve to win" (most common and stupid argument i ve seen. So why even join this game?)
"dont ever again join my team" (like he is the owner of any team lmao. The manager who select the players lol most hilarious message i see often in chat)
"Damn this team so bad. It sucks" (like the one who write this message -usually to everyone in chat pretending the enemy team cares lol- isn't part of this team)
Last example of how to give the enemy team 100% win:
"We lost cause of you - we will lost the game cause of you" (Usually comes from top players to another player who is obv performing super bad or even terrible -not intentionally- but still plays until the end and tries to save whatever he can. You must be the one who gives him the final shot to the head taking away every motive he had to play. Believe me he is the one who knows first that he is sucking, doesnt need you to remind him every minute forcing him to quit and destroying his mentality.)
All i want to say is that in the end what matters is a good game. But some people here acting and behaving like dota is the most important thing in their lives. Like a matter of life and death. Its funny and hilarious at the same time but tiring and dissapointing on the other side. Specially when we are talking of growing persons. Ok provocation and trolling is part of this game and !ignore gives you the ability to move on if you want to avoid someone but negative energy is so powerful leading to !ff even we are waiting 1 hour for a game to start.
Thats the reason personally i m tryin to avoid people in lobby like @Computer_easy. Not because he plays bad or he is not a good guy. On the contrary. But mostly because this guy wantst to forfeits the game in the first 5 mins max. He doesnt even wants to try. Specially if he gets powned at start he spams !ff easily. Other people making the same and i always asked him why even he joins this game waited so long if he wanna quit it? Doesn't make any sense...
================================================================================================================================
I'm closing this long post with 2 recent examples of my thoughts:
Game 1 yesterday: https://entgaming.net/findstats.php?id=12258742 and https://h3rmit.gr/stats_ent/game/12258742
This particular game is a perfect example of how you can lose a game thats on the edge, almost 50-50 by destroying your teammate psychology.
Unfortunately i dont have any timestamps to provide here but all started when 69pudge (i think its Richard) started the flame against iammefisto who picked LC. Despite the fact that LC had a bad start he did recovered. Our team did well and we had competitive fights but hard to win and with losses. It was literally 50-50. Result ? Necro spend his time flaming LC, flame after flame, Mefisto could just ignore him and keep playing but he got so frustrated he suddenly left the game. That was it. Ofc we lost a 57 min good competitive game cause one person choose to flame another and the other one kept answering him losing his temper instead of just ignoring him. Game wasted for no reason. I didnt even want to post a ban against iammefisto for leaving or for Richard for ruining our efforts with his behaviour.
Game 2 days ago: https://entgaming.net/findstats.php?id=12258589 and https://h3rmit.gr/stats_ent/game/12258589
As you can see here i was in the same lane with @Noob_Hunter_2 who had Spec and me Abba against Sabaton's Thrall and Unhappy's Viper. Things were really really really harsh for us. Specially for me. I was getting rekt every minute. Literally. Viper/Bara/Thrall destroyed every effort of me tryin to protect Spec early. Thats was my main purpose cause i knew what Noob Hunter could do late with a Spec in his hands. I had 0-5 in the first five minutes. Only Tiny (fortunately) were owning mid but not as much as in midgame. We all struggled against them. Nevertheless we never lost our temper and we didnt start flame wars. We sticked to the game and win it in the end easily after we all remained calm and focused. Spec got op after her Radiance,Tiny started to hunt everyone in jungle, Firefly did also well with Mirana ult's saving us and ofc Orkut's Silencer did extremely good!
The reason i post this game is to show everyone that we never gave up. If someone can see the chatlog it was clear i wouldnt let Spec alone even i would doubled my deaths. From the first five minutes until the end i had only one death resulting in 0-6 but the game was super good and we managed to turn this around cause we did three things as a team. 1) We didnt cry/flame when we all had our hard time at start 2) We never gave up until the end 3) We had good communication and winner mentality even if we gonna lost it.
Now imagine the same Spec in the hands of Jazzy in the same lane with me having 0-5 the first 5 minutes tryin to protect him.
What the final result would be and how many times !ff would team be forced to type? not to mention the toxic language and whining.
So my conclusion is, the decision of typing !ff or forcing others to do it, is the result is inextricably linked to the behavior of the players in general and their psychology in particular. Unfortunately most players havent the patience to continue and play a game that they consider "lost".
Specially now where our community is small and we have to wait 20-35-50 mins at the lobby for a game to start. And then the game starts. And lets say it goes terrible for me and my allies in the first 10 minutes (something that happens quite often) i ruin, get ganked, the team are nowhere and we lack communication and tactics. And then the flaming starts. But we are still at the very beginning. Meaning that if we have a small chance of turning this game, why we should not chasing it ?
why we should flame each other, cry and chat relentlessly (hello Jazzy) than trying to have a competitive game, cooperation and a result that will give us joy regardless of winning or losing. If we win it's a miracle, if we gonna lose it's a message that we did our best after all and maybe next time we should not underestimate ourselves and skills. Even if we are doing it all wrong.
I dont know how many times i ve won games that were 95% lost from the 5 first minutes against a super good stacked team when we were the underdongs and my team forced me to !ff but i refused. The game was played quietly and slowly we were getting a slightly advantage over and over until we won it. Sometimes !ignore helps to calm down and focusing on game. Thousand of times i find my self tryin to explain my allies that its not over until we are fully raxed and we should try to do our best even with one rax remaining.
Often i was on the other side. I was in super good team owning everyone at start i had a nice score but mid game after we raxed everything and only main base remained we didnt knew what to do. The gangs stopped, we had no other tower to rax and we were starting to lose some fights. We stopped talking and communicating, frustration comes on top cause a game that should have ended in the first 20 mins now becomes a 50 min game and we are still struggling to win it. Result ? lose ofc.
But thats the magic after all. If the enemy team choose to !ff in the first 10 min they would never have the opportunity to turn the result around.
We all are losing so much energy and concentration to undermine our own efforts than empower our own teammates. Even if only 1 player is good and the other 4 sucks. The nature of this game is so weird. Its that what me and H3rmit discussed yesterday completely coincidentally. We play an 30 year old game while the majority of people here are over 35years. I m 41, H3rmit the same, Mike the same, some even have family, children etc and still we found ourselves arguing and behaving ingame like 16 year kiddos feeling we are "pro" gamers or like "pro managers" in top professional team who like to be top bosses and point finger everyone while they are playin flawless without any mistake. Like we earn money from Dota lol.
I mean ok guys relax a little. Ok i understand its nice to play a competitive game, i like to play and win in every game too but lets calm a bit. Some players doesnt have the proper skills to play above a certain level (myself included) others doesnt play carry heroes (myself included) others play 1-2 heros at most, others dont wanna improve or cant improve and others are good - average but super toxic wasting all their energy to flame their teammates instead of trying to win the game.
Countless chats are like this:
"hey guys i'm the only one who tries here and none of you respond" (when the person who writes it, is the first who knows that the team are dying to protect the carry so he can win late game)
"hey wtf you leave me alone dying" (when all dies in battle except maybe one person who escapes or happens farming on the others side)
"hey you all ruining here" (when the one who writes it is the one who ruins the most but thinks he is better than the others)
"ok !ff time i m done here" (after the first 3 deaths wants to quit easily)
"no i wont carry this noob ass" (when one person is at flame war with another person forgetting about the other three in the team)
"this team doesnt deserve to win" (most common and stupid argument i ve seen. So why even join this game?)
"dont ever again join my team" (like he is the owner of any team lmao. The manager who select the players lol most hilarious message i see often in chat)
"Damn this team so bad. It sucks" (like the one who write this message -usually to everyone in chat pretending the enemy team cares lol- isn't part of this team)
Last example of how to give the enemy team 100% win:
"We lost cause of you - we will lost the game cause of you" (Usually comes from top players to another player who is obv performing super bad or even terrible -not intentionally- but still plays until the end and tries to save whatever he can. You must be the one who gives him the final shot to the head taking away every motive he had to play. Believe me he is the one who knows first that he is sucking, doesnt need you to remind him every minute forcing him to quit and destroying his mentality.)
All i want to say is that in the end what matters is a good game. But some people here acting and behaving like dota is the most important thing in their lives. Like a matter of life and death. Its funny and hilarious at the same time but tiring and dissapointing on the other side. Specially when we are talking of growing persons. Ok provocation and trolling is part of this game and !ignore gives you the ability to move on if you want to avoid someone but negative energy is so powerful leading to !ff even we are waiting 1 hour for a game to start.
Thats the reason personally i m tryin to avoid people in lobby like @Computer_easy. Not because he plays bad or he is not a good guy. On the contrary. But mostly because this guy wantst to forfeits the game in the first 5 mins max. He doesnt even wants to try. Specially if he gets powned at start he spams !ff easily. Other people making the same and i always asked him why even he joins this game waited so long if he wanna quit it? Doesn't make any sense...
================================================================================================================================
I'm closing this long post with 2 recent examples of my thoughts:
Game 1 yesterday: https://entgaming.net/findstats.php?id=12258742 and https://h3rmit.gr/stats_ent/game/12258742
This particular game is a perfect example of how you can lose a game thats on the edge, almost 50-50 by destroying your teammate psychology.
Unfortunately i dont have any timestamps to provide here but all started when 69pudge (i think its Richard) started the flame against iammefisto who picked LC. Despite the fact that LC had a bad start he did recovered. Our team did well and we had competitive fights but hard to win and with losses. It was literally 50-50. Result ? Necro spend his time flaming LC, flame after flame, Mefisto could just ignore him and keep playing but he got so frustrated he suddenly left the game. That was it. Ofc we lost a 57 min good competitive game cause one person choose to flame another and the other one kept answering him losing his temper instead of just ignoring him. Game wasted for no reason. I didnt even want to post a ban against iammefisto for leaving or for Richard for ruining our efforts with his behaviour.
Game 2 days ago: https://entgaming.net/findstats.php?id=12258589 and https://h3rmit.gr/stats_ent/game/12258589
As you can see here i was in the same lane with @Noob_Hunter_2 who had Spec and me Abba against Sabaton's Thrall and Unhappy's Viper. Things were really really really harsh for us. Specially for me. I was getting rekt every minute. Literally. Viper/Bara/Thrall destroyed every effort of me tryin to protect Spec early. Thats was my main purpose cause i knew what Noob Hunter could do late with a Spec in his hands. I had 0-5 in the first five minutes. Only Tiny (fortunately) were owning mid but not as much as in midgame. We all struggled against them. Nevertheless we never lost our temper and we didnt start flame wars. We sticked to the game and win it in the end easily after we all remained calm and focused. Spec got op after her Radiance,Tiny started to hunt everyone in jungle, Firefly did also well with Mirana ult's saving us and ofc Orkut's Silencer did extremely good!
The reason i post this game is to show everyone that we never gave up. If someone can see the chatlog it was clear i wouldnt let Spec alone even i would doubled my deaths. From the first five minutes until the end i had only one death resulting in 0-6 but the game was super good and we managed to turn this around cause we did three things as a team. 1) We didnt cry/flame when we all had our hard time at start 2) We never gave up until the end 3) We had good communication and winner mentality even if we gonna lost it.
Now imagine the same Spec in the hands of Jazzy in the same lane with me having 0-5 the first 5 minutes tryin to protect him.
What the final result would be and how many times !ff would team be forced to type? not to mention the toxic language and whining.
So my conclusion is, the decision of typing !ff or forcing others to do it, is the result is inextricably linked to the behavior of the players in general and their psychology in particular. Unfortunately most players havent the patience to continue and play a game that they consider "lost".
-
RichardCoffee
- Treant
- Posts: 356
- Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2022 1:49 am
- Has thanked: 24 times
- Been thanked: 37 times
Re: lets talk about !ff
No that’s not me. That’s probably why you had some random weird ass multi-paragraph diatribe about me in your ranking list – you likely think I’m other people when you play.GodSaveTheQQs wrote:This particular game is a perfect example of how you can lose a game thats on the edge, almost 50-50 by destroying your teammate psychology.
Unfortunately i dont have any timestamps to provide here but all started when 69pudge (i think its Richard) started the flame against iammefisto who picked LC. Despite the fact that LC had a bad start he did recovered. Our team did well and we had competitive fights but hard to win and with losses. It was literally 50-50. Result ? Necro spend his time flaming LC, flame after flame, Mefisto could just ignore him and keep playing but he got so frustrated he suddenly left the game. That was it. Ofc we lost a 57 min good competitive game cause one person choose to flame another and the other one kept answering him losing his temper instead of just ignoring him. Game wasted for no reason. I didnt even want to post a ban against iammefisto for leaving or for Richard for ruining our efforts with his behaviour.
[.
With that said I don’t think this player should be blamed. It’s just words in a game - probably in response to Lc’s play style. The other guy mefisto often gives up easily and does/chats dumb stuff. Him leaving to punish your team is another example of that
-
GodSaveTheQQs
- Forest Walker
- Posts: 121
- Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2015 9:16 pm
- Has thanked: 279 times
- Been thanked: 42 times
Re: lets talk about !ff
Hi Richard. Thanks for the response. I love you too. Unfortunately i cant be sure about anyone . You are all making 100 new acc every day so excuse me if i cant recognize you. But if you say you are not 69pudge i ll accept it. Easily to say that "just words in a game". Remind me this next time if someones ruins your game or accused you of mh or anything like this. And if everything are just words lets start ignoring each other and play a silent game. Maybe its better that way.
Return to “Defense of the Ancients”
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: CCBot [Bot] and 1 guest