[0105] Latest Version

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[0105] Latest Version

Postby Neco » Fri Apr 29, 2016 4:43 am

0105 Downloads:
https://id.rory.io/indicina/0105/

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0105d Changelog:
  • Tweaked top-middle areas, added a pathway to the west of the secret shops.
  • Added extra tower space to the far south-western base.
  • Added extra tower space to the east-most base above Euro.
Island Defense 4.0.0.0105d Beta OU9.w3x
Official release.
(2.25 MiB) Downloaded 112 times


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0105c Changelog:
  • Fixed the fix for UP not actually being unique.
Island Defense 4.0.0.0105c Beta OU9.w3x
Official release.
(2.25 MiB) Downloaded 98 times


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0105a Changelog:
  • Tweaked the top-middle terrain somewhat.
  • Moved the nuke spot behind the top-left base down one tree.
  • Attempted to fix UP again.
  • Fixed an issue where you could sometimes get the wrong ultimate towers allocated for your builder.
  • Buffed worker experience (the previous nerf was too harsh).
  • Removed the ability to nuke certain kinds of healing wards.
Island Defense 4.0.0.0105a Beta OU9.w3x
Official release.
(2.25 MiB) Downloaded 94 times


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0105 Changelog:
  • Implemented new top-middle terrain (from magic_hero). This has resulted in the Defender pick shops being moved.
  • Fixed the UP system to work as intended.
  • Fixed neutral structures not giving any experience.
  • Wards will no longer have their vision changed at night.
  • Fixed being able to use Jen-frog to block entrances.
  • Fixed Demonologist's Sacrifice having incorrect targeting.
  • Reduced Morphling Beast's base HP to 800 (from 1450)
  • Updated the tooltip on the Berserker Gem to the new format.
Island Defense 4.0.0.0105 Beta OU9.w3x
Official release.
(2.25 MiB) Downloaded 134 times
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Re: [0105] In Development

Postby Neco » Sun May 29, 2016 3:32 am

I'll give the community 3 days to report any issues they find. If there a no major problems, I'll ask uakf.b to update the ENTID map.

Minor problems can be solved in future patches (0105a/b/c etc).
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Re: [0105] Latest Version (not on ENTID yet)

Postby Sytec270 » Sun May 29, 2016 7:39 am

Morphling Beast form nerf was too big it should be 1000 hp

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Re: [0105] Latest Version (not on ENTID yet)

Postby ShadowZz » Sun May 29, 2016 8:22 am

@Sytec270 Mag's current Polar Wrath gives somewhere in the range of 1000hp. Morph's has higher movespeed as well as an amazing slow + a charge basically and an aoe damage + AR. 800hp is generous....
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Re: [0105] Latest Version (not on ENTID yet)

Postby Lynx » Sun May 29, 2016 11:15 am

Mag's current polar wrath is weak

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Re: [0105] Latest Version (not on ENTID yet)

Postby ShadowZz » Sun May 29, 2016 11:31 am

It's fine as is, people just have the old mindset of a support that can facefight a titan and that's just unrealistic balance wise. Having it any tankier basically means he's unkillable as a base support unless he's a brainless retard.
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Re: [0105] Latest Version (not on ENTID yet)

Postby Stealer » Sun May 29, 2016 1:11 pm

ShadowZz wrote:It's fine as is, people just have the old mindset of a support that can facefight a titan and that's just unrealistic balance wise.


Don't feed the morph gold?
I don't see why game is being "balanced" around pm24 titans.

Beast had/has weak hp regen so you could siege it in a base (originally 0 but I forget which editor gave it that upgrade). I find it a bit weird after all your talk of video game design and edumaction you have a limited set of ways to address "imbalances".

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Re: [0105] Latest Version (not on ENTID yet)

Postby Merex » Sun May 29, 2016 2:26 pm

The top mid base only allows 1 shelter in it's LB/coral spot, is that suppose to be how it is? Can't be properly lumbered unless I misplaced it. (aka gaps)
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Re: [0105] Latest Version (not on ENTID yet)

Postby Lynx » Sun May 29, 2016 4:37 pm

I think it boils down to this:
gold over time graph.png
gold over time graph.png (8.17 KiB) Viewed 3735 times


I believe Shadowzz thinks builders are suppose to get more gold than what they really are suppose to get. Getting avatar is a rare occasion, but it isn't rare if you think you should get gold as the red line on the graph.
Spoiler!
Now you could argue that avatar is a part of the builder and it shouldn't be rare, and I get that. But then you would need to tweak everything that uses gold in its cost to adjust it to the new system. Otherwise we'd get unbalance.


You can't balance a game around assuming builders will get large amounts of an unreliable resource. This causes the polared results that we're having in ID, (Get gold -> Builders win. Get no gold -> Titan win). The GP is at 90 gold for a reason; when it was added 90g was enough to win the game, tbh gold is undervalued now.

I also think avatar balance has been handled badly. It's basically two things that has been done; added neutralization rod and nerfed avatars. You do either one of these methods, not both.

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Re: [0105] Latest Version (not on ENTID yet)

Postby ShadowZz » Mon May 30, 2016 3:03 am

@Stealer The reason why Morph needs such a heavy nerf is because Morph is not affected by other balances such a WoN. His avatar is immune to it and that can't be changed due to Wc3. If you really want to talk about balance on that level then Morph should be removed from the game. Having a builder that can fulfill every role in the game at a good standard is just a joke. Also Morph's beast only costs 80g total to get it which in the scheme of things is really not that expensive.

Builders are supposed to be scared of titan to a certain degree and past iterations have completely removed that and turned being a builder into a game of trolling bad/average titans and just straight up loosing to good ones.

@Lynx Last version Neco did exactly what you have all been whining about for the past year and nerfed titan exp gain, worker feed, wall feed, noobs feeding through froff, titan leveling and look how that turned out. Everyone now is whining that titan is dog shit in game. Thanks for drawing two imaginary lines which contribute nothing to the conversation.

I've brought up the fact that noone has actually looked into gold values at all about 50 million fucking times and it gets ignored and you want to write a post talking about the "value" of gold. How lovely.....

Multiply all gold values by a factor of 10 so they can actually be balance-able because as it is right now it just doesn't work.

Then remove the 90g gold penalty completely and create a new system. If titans having a bad game and can't get gold/exp then builders just farm gold all game and do whatever the fuck they like. If titan plays well early game and manages to deny gold then builders just get given 90g. They get given all the gold they need for final tier upgrades as well as summons for simply being shit at getting gold or get it anyway if they're already doing fine. It literally makes no sense but you harp on about random shit but don't even mention that. Gold should be finite and earned, not just given out, it's the difference between having a good base and having a shit base and that should not be decided by an in-game timer. It completely removes any skill associated with playing builder because if your bad and get no gold you can just sit in someone else's base until GP.

@Lynx If that paragraph above doesn't prove your dumb fucking graph is bullshit then I don't know what does. I simply think that gold should be earned in ID and not given. That builder skill should be raised up from what it is now because right now builders are shit and playing builder is boring as fuck for A LOT of people. Builders should be able to do extra things for gold which make a difference but are relatively high skill cap. Things that aren't game breaking (wallwalk (lets not discuss this, just an example)).
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Re: [0105] Latest Version (not on ENTID yet)

Postby Sytec270 » Mon May 30, 2016 12:53 pm

Just nerf gp. Lets try this way 60 gold in 30 mins.If everyone likes it stays if not then it will be changed back.







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Re: [0105] Latest Version (not on ENTID yet)

Postby ShadowZz » Mon May 30, 2016 4:02 pm

That's not the point. People talk about wanting builder to be more skill associated yet we give them exactly what they need regardless of whether they play well or play like shit. There is no skill gap for builders. It's either you can't make a lumber base or you can. I'd say playing support is the only thing in ID that has some sort of skill gap that makes a difference in-game and even that is minuscule to the point where good players just troll out of bordem rather than actually having something to do skill associated that increases their chance of winning.

Builders shouldn't be given any amount of gold at all. There should be more ways to earn gold or alternative ways which require skill to complete. Currently one of those ways is killing minions but even when there are 5 people with titan hunters in a game along with a demo and a nature they simply decide not to gold at the 3min mark when a minion spawns instead of sending 5 hunters + a nature army and a demo army to kill it. Builders already have the stuff they need to leave gold open constantly and simply don't because they are low skill cap.

tl dr; Builders play like trash and get rewarded for it. They already have the tools (hunters) to kill minions and keep golding open and don't even bother doing it because the game just gives them the gold they need anyway. Increasing builder skill gap will make for better games.
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Re: [0105] Latest Version (not on ENTID yet)

Postby FollowingPath » Mon May 30, 2016 4:39 pm

This is hardly the topic for subjective arguements. I recommend viewtopic.php?f=153&t=62935&start=105
New terrain looks good, but I unfortunately don't have much time to test at the moment because of finals.
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Re: [0105] Latest Version (not on ENTID yet)

Postby Sytec270 » Tue May 31, 2016 10:45 am

Well to balance out i think we need a builder that can morph into some other builders.Like Gnoll,magnataur
But this morph works only one time.

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Re: [0105] Latest Version (not on ENTID yet)

Postby Sytec270 » Tue May 31, 2016 11:33 am

Does anyone else get errors too when picking is over ?


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