Ban Appeal

[lightyaganami]

Your Warcraft III username: lightyaganami
Realm/Gateway: useast
Why are you banned: Banned by hazardous ([ENT] NWU -sdsm #9) for "refusal to coop" on Mar 2017 21:04:59 AST
Why you should be unbanned: First time playing the game and I get flamed by everyone. I don't understand the concept of roaming around and ganking, I can barely see the things on the minimap and the pings are obnoxious so I don't pan my camera over there every time a teammate spams it. Regardless, I was accused of trolling, feeding, and refusing to help by a toxic team just because we were losing. I could barely explain myself under the multitude of insults, curse words, and aggressive chat. For this, they claimed I should be kicked and banned. An admin hazardous was coincidentally in the game and although I expected the most maturity from him, he too was a part of the crowd that continued to insult and flame me for being unable to play the game. Just a game ago I was doing the same thing and still learning but my team understood that I was a beginner and did not insult or flame me. I understand having a toxic community is inevitable but for your admins themselves to be displaying a level of maturity and mindset that rivals 12-year-old Minecraft players is just ridiculous. Is NWU a dead game because new players are constantly being banned by admins for not knowing how to play the game?

[HazarDous]

@lightyaganami

While I don't like the way our team treated you to begin given you are a new player, you shouldn't claim that I flamed you without being able to back that up.

Nonetheless, while you did indeed get flamed by orange and teal, you also flamed them back. The first interaction I had with you was when I asked you to help the team, and your answer was: "I can play whatever way I want". I asked and warned you multiple times to stick with the team, but you were always missing in the teamfights nonetheless.

You can either acknowledge that and I will unban you, or you can keep denying it and remain banned.

[lightyaganami]

@HazarDous

You call that flaming? They literally wanted me to run around wherever they ping and I can't keep up with that nonsense so I was passive-aggressively telling them to leave me alone. Go pull up in-game chat and find proof that I was flaming.And when did I ever refuse you when you ask me to stick with the team? How about you back that up also because I didn't say anything to you nor refuse to cooperate. However, I do acknowledge that I wasn't in many of the team fights but that was only because I was still trying to learn how to play not "flaming" anyone. Flaming is not being passive-aggressive its when you say shit like "fucking purple", "you fucking noob leave", and "just kick and ban him HazarDous". Furthermore, "always" is a big word you should try backing that up too because I absolutely was in many of the fights including the time you told the team (and me) to use me as bait and ended up killing everyone. I cooperated then did I not? My main goal was to learn the game and not die, just because the team wants me to be somewhere and I'm not there does not constitute me as a troll, flamer, nor anything of the sorts. It's called having doubts and some of those team fights were terrible ideas that ended up killing everyone so there should be no reason I should be the team's bitch. None of you were pros, you yourself was 2-6 so I don't know why you guys needed to blame something to make yourself feel better. A man of reason such as yourself should not have been swayed by the mentality of toxic players.

[lightyaganami]

@HazarDous

Also, where in the rules does it say I had to be wherever the team wants me to? There is no NWU-specific rule concerning that nor does it state it in the Enterprise Gaming general rules. I only see one of relevance and that is "Do not flame, rage, troll, or insult other players excessively." You said it yourself that orange and teal (not even talking about the rest yet) were flaming me and raging/insulting excessively but never during the game did you warn nor ask them to stop? "Refusing to coop" is not even a legitimate offense and from our conversation, you can't even seem to properly prove it. Regardless, what's more pressing is that you did not act when others were blatantly infringing the most basic rules of ENT and we can easily prove that. I acknowledged that I was missing in many (not all) of the team fights although this is not a bannable offense of any kind. Are you going to acknowledge that you are a hypocrite or do you need me to back that up some more?

[lightyaganami]

@HazarDous

http://storage.entgaming.net/replay/vie ... 227985.w3g

Replay is right there, read it if you must. You seemed pretty aggravated too during the game so your emotions might've clouded your judgment but that does not excuse your actions. Please go ahead and try to prove me wrong on all accounts I have just made above. Also, can we get this appeal reviewed by someone else because I still think your judgment is clouded? Do I not have the right to a fair trial?

[HazarDous]

You can obviously ask for another mod to process your request. However, that'd be a bad decision given my only goal is to have you unbanned ASAP. Another mod would take longer to process the appeal given he has to review the game.

Not that it has any interest in this specific appeal, but I will address your claims of "flaming". When I said above that you flamed them back, I used your own definition of flaming. Did they flame you a little? Yes. Did they flame enough to warrant a ban? Nah. You did tell them to "stfu", called them kids, sarcastically called them "genius" etc. Anyway, as I said, none of that warrants any ban as it's pretty minor flame.

I might've seemed "aggravated", as you said, but that's just how I play. Whenever my teammates do dumb shit, I tell them. If you look at the replay you provided, I also called orange and sakura out for not coming at a fight. The difference between them and you, however, is that they did not repeatedly fail to group and fight as a team, while you did. You were missing in many team fights, despite the fact we asked you to stick with us many times. Even when we pinged specific locations to gank and regroup as team, you remained on lane and attacked creeps. I specifically remember when we fought top wood for a good 2-3 minutes only to find you, again, creeping mid lane very close to the fight.

Yes, you did bait for us at one of the final fights, but it was final for a reason. Your prior actions had already contributed to what could only be a loss for us. However, your last death of the game (going on a fight solo vs 5 at top tower) was merely the last nail in the coffin; I could have banned and kicked you a lot earlier. Besides, your response to my approach didn't really help your case ("I can play whatever way I want, I am not forced to help the team").

If you agree to listen to the team and participate more in team fights in the future, I will unban you.

Nonetheless, I'll give you that I should've helped you more and told orange to shut the hell up when he started flaming you. Being a newbie goes two ways; you should ask questions and be receptive, and we should provide you with the help that you need. Both sides failed, but only you broke the rules.

P.S. Game ruining is a pretty global term, which includes refusal to cooperate in team games. It is at the discretion of the moderators to determine what constitutes game ruining.

Off topic:
If you are still interested to learn NWU, it will be a pleasure to help you. Just let me know.

We alsi have a discord channel here: https://discord.gg/TH3KtcJ

[lightyaganami]

@HazarDous

You seem to have trouble following my point and understanding the big picture so I will respond to your statements paragraph by paragraph.

I don't care what your goal is, my point in this appeal is that I was unlawfully banned. I'm grateful that you are trying to get me unbanned ASAP but I am trying to set a precedence so that I or anyone else is never in a situation like this again. Even if you unban me I will still be a beginner for the next couple maybe 20+ games. Although a toxic team is inevitable like I mentioned before, a subjective admin with his own interpretation of the rules and player's mindsets should be kept off the game.

I don't understand how you can claim to use my own definition of flaming when you as an admin should know the standards. There is no "your" or "my" definition of flaming, there is merely a right and wrong. I can understand if their degree of flaming was not enough to warrant a ban but it was very evident and you did not act to even warn them. As an admin, you are witnessing a new player struggle to play the game and struggle to keep up with the team as he is constantly getting insulted and flamed at yet all you do is ban the newbie upon request of the team just because he isn't in team fights which apparently automatically means he is "game ruining". Refusal to cooperate? Seems like a childish ban but legitimate enough, however, a newbie who is barely able to read the minimap much less understand the game isn't where his team want him to be so he gets banned. That is a completely different scenario and you know it, how many times do I have to replay the situation. You can't prove that I am deliberately ruining the game, all my statements in-game merely indicate that I am trying to learn and play the game my own way. Furthermore, telling them to "stfu" and being sarcastic in that situation is in no way flaming anyone or anything. As an admin who upholds ENT standards, you should know better than this. A newbie is getting pelted by insults such as "fucking noob" and "idiot" and you try to accuse him of flaming because he called them kids? Where are your priorities?

This paragraph is naively subjective. Just because I wasn't where the team was it means I am refusing to cooperate and am ruining the game? Yes, I am missing in many team fights, yes I remained in lane and attack creeps because I am LEARNING the game. You still have no proof for your claim that I am refusing to cooperate. You can be fighting top wood for all you want, I am oblivious to the minimap and to team fights so I didn't notice shit. Upon that you made your own assumption that I am deliberately ruining the game and with the clouded judgment you decided to ban me. Am I wrong? I think that your desire to win the game overtook your duty to be objective and be understanding.

Now, this paragraph is even more delusional. First, you claim that I wasn't in any of the team fights then you state otherwise but then you quickly make a statement that basically says you banned me for making you lose. My prior actions? You mean my inexperience at NWU and my absences in team fights? Yes, I agree those absolutely contributed to the loss. Yes, it was a 1v5 at the last death because everyone else was dead and I was trying to defend a tower. You say you could have banned and kicked me a lot earlier? On what grounds exactly? Anyone that sucks at the game and makes the team lose should be immediately banned according to your logic. I think your logic is flawed. I think you are inept at being a game admin for nwu. My response? You mean the part where I tell you I will play how I want because you guys keep harassing me and telling me what to do and where to go when I am still merely trying to learn what my abilities do? It wasn't meant to help any case, there shouldn't have been a case in the first place. The team was harassing me and I wanted to be left alone. Never did my responses mention any refusal to cooperate or join team fights.

So yes, I obviously agree to listen to the team and participate in team fights; never did I disagree to this. However, shall I ever be harassed and flamed and insulted as such I will ask to be left alone and act on my own with NO INTENTIONS of ruining the game. If you were on the other team I guarantee that you would not have made the same verdict, be more reasonable next time.

Thank you for that half-assed way to admit your hypocrisy. Yes, you should've helped me more, been more understanding, and most definitely calm the toxicity instead of taking part in it. Both sides did indeed fail, after such harassment, I found it hard to be receptive and my defense mechanisms turned on a sarcastic and arrogant side of me. However, as an admin experiences at both the game and ENT you made the bigger mistake and should have been the bigger person. Although I had many wrongs I will not recede to the fact that my ban was unreasonable and that you failed your duty.

P.S. Your discretion is subjective

Off Topic: I am not interested in learning from an admin who is so willing to harass and ban a newbie. Thank you for the offer.

@Im_Halp Thank you for the notice, as I am still fairly new in the community I would like a little more review before finding it "complaint" material. I need people who will look at this situation objectively and comment their own analysis.

[HazarDous]

You seem to forget that this is only a game. I am not interested in playing the police with players who flame each other, and it is not my duty to "protect" you or anything just because you are new. You claim that I was bias in my ban against you and that I participated in the toxicity, while my only interaction with you was to tell you to stick with the team.

You seem to be confused a little about our rules. Failure to cooperate with the team, hence ruining the game, is not something subjective. Either you participate in team fights, or you don't. My only duty as a moderator is to ask you to participate in team fights prior to banning you. I did it multiple times.

Let's skip to the the only thing of interest you argued about;

Yes, I am missing in many team fights, yes I remained in lane and attack creeps because I am LEARNING the game. You still have no proof for your claim that I am refusing to cooperate.

So you admit that you failed to participate in team fights. You can't claim you did not know, every single player in the team asked you to come with us and you did not. Just that is enough to warrant a ban. Now, looking at your writing skills and thought-process, I believe you are smart enough to understand what we mean when we say "stick with us", or "fight with team". The fact you still failed to come with us implies you indeed refused to cooperate. That's a simple and logic conclusion. Perhaps you're the one who's emotions clouded the judgement. Perhaps you were too busy flaming and arguing with orange and teal to fight with the team? Perhaps you were just too angry at them to follow their directive out of pride. At this point, I don't really care, because you excuse your absence from team fights by the fact that you are "learning the game". Quite ironical, considering one would assume that someone who is eager to learn would listen to their teammates when they ask him to stick with the team...

Anyways, don't twist things around. You had a conflict with orange and teal, not me. Never did I harass you as you've falsely claimed, twice now.


@matdas @beerlord @albi can deal with this appeal? thanks.

[matdas]

after watching the replay, i find the ban legitimate. NWU has a steep learning curve and a harsh player base. It requires thick skin to get through it. Just because you are new, does not mean you can ignore your team and refuse to cooperate. I did see instances where you did, but there were more where you clearly refused to cooperate.

Here is just one instance of chat: (15:53 / Allied) lightyaganami: not gonna come if you call me idiot lol
(15:59 / Allied) lightyaganami: keep being toxic

Just because the team is toxic does not mean you can ignore the team plays. There are multiple examples of you ignoring team calls. You can defend your actions all you want, it does not excuse the fact that you were not team playing.

I don't see a reason to give you a full unban due to how toxic 2 of the teammates were. I will however reduce it: Original expiration date: 30 Mar 2017. It will expire in 8 hours from this post. Use this time to educate yourself on how to team play.