LIHLDiabloDuck

[BeepBoopBeep]

I watched the replay, and from my point of view, it was not the best game play that I've seen but it's hard to make a concrete case that this is a legitimate TK. Although Donald over-incomed for his moon guard build he did stop upping his lumber and continued to try to "catch" up on his build after leaking lvls 4 and 5. He did build the units that he could for 7, 8 and 10 which weren't enough because of early failure but they were the right choice.

I was intrigued that he built so close to the front of his spawn point but when I looked at other replays where he was the "single" lane in 3v3, he did the same thing in those. So he did not change his build for this game in particular.

I simply don't see evidence of a deliberate TK here. I do see a player who overvalued his moon guard and ended up paying the price. This is a huge mistake and I see it as poor gameplay, not a TK. If it were a deliberate TK, it was very well hidden. He did have 1800 value on lvl 10 with 3 wyverns. I would say that he tried in my opinion.

This thread is about suspision of team killing. Let's please stick to the topic at hand and end the flame wars. Flaming in forums is against ENT rules.

What i want to know is if deliberately losing the game or simply being scrub can result in being unvouched?

1. I don't see concrete evidence of Donald deliberately losing this game
2. Being "scrub" will eventually result in being unvouched. We haven't determined a time line or set guidelines as to what "scrub" means but we will be "trimming the fat" most likely at the end of season one to keep this league highly competitive.

We take all complaints seriously. Thank you for your post

This is what i wanted to see, I'm happy with what you said.

Just got worked up after this comment by bit

't care if u guys don't like each other because of your pub elo race or something. This is not pub, we don't need such a low drama here. This topic is a complete joke and will lead nowhere than flame wars. You both should drop the fights and move on. Anyone who will be suspected in ruining game on purpose will be unvouched no matter the elo score, don't worry about this.

Calling my topic a complete joke very mature moderator, Heres something for bit maybe he can learn something for the future.

We take all complaints seriously.

[supersexyy]

By 'topic' bit was referring to the comments I'm assuming.

Anyway, I fully support what iightfyre has concluded and agree its predominantly a poorly played game.

[Ultimate_aMaYa]

so the n°1 in pub would be unvouched because he is not that pro ?
Would mean that viewtopic.php?f=9&t=8373 make sence

So maybe we have to vouch some players with <1500 elo for the league.

[HateLose]

Hate to burst the bubble of the players, but imo there are a few players that shouldn't even be in LIHL. I understand we had to vouche anyone/everyone to get it started, but tbh this is supposed to be a "Pro Players" league. If not "Pro" at least "Advanced". The problem is, we don't have enough pro players just yet.....

so the n°1 in pub would be unvouched because he is not that pro ?
So maybe we have to vouch some players with <1500 elo for the league.

Btw....elo in pub games mean nothing. Your logic is irrelevant. Just because you have high elo doesn't mean you are pro and just because you have low elo doesn't mean you aren't advanced. You are contradicting yourself....you even talked about stacking to boost elo.

[Ultimate_aMaYa]

Btw....elo in pub games mean nothing. Your logic is irrelevant. Just because you have high elo doesn't mean you are pro and just because you have low elo doesn't mean you aren't advanced. You are contradicting yourself....you even talked about stacking to boost elo.

I think u didn't understand what I wanted to say, I think it's because of my frenglish
I'm agree with u, when i said we should sometimes vouch some players with <1500 elo it mean they are maybe more skilled than some players with +1500. I duno very much diabloduck to say he isn't pro enough to join the league, but if some players complaining about him , that mean that 2300 elo isn't his real skill.
Sorry for my english, i make my best

[cyberpunk]

Doesn't matter what elo you are, a behavior that does not conform to accepted by lihl rules should be unvouch

[iightfyre]

Cyber is right. This thread is about suspicious game play, not about ELO wars or he said she said nonsense.

Bottom line is that there is no evidence of a TK in this replay and until any evidence is provided there is no reason why we should still be discussing this.

[GoatsBeGone]

I dont see the tk.. Donald fucks up and overlumbering to early, he should know that Moonguard is nothing worth on 4, how ever I dont see any tk, he stays 5/1 from the leak on 4, and do pretty decent on 7 and 8 and hold 9, that you dont up king well thats just stupid looking at your units. But i gotta say I have no clue what donald was doing on 4, but half the time I dont have a plan with my build, its called improvise, I dont see the tk, I see his fail, that cost him his game on 4, Ive done fails 1000 of times, that shit happends. But kinda drastic to call it tk, you are 3 on the team could have step forward and said lets do king..

[HateLose]

Btw....elo in pub games mean nothing. Your logic is irrelevant. Just because you have high elo doesn't mean you are pro and just because you have low elo doesn't mean you aren't advanced. You are contradicting yourself....you even talked about stacking to boost elo.

I think u didn't understand what I wanted to say, I think it's because of my frenglish
I'm agree with u, when i said we should sometimes vouch some players with <1500 elo it mean they are maybe more skilled than some players with +1500. I duno very much diabloduck to say he isn't pro enough to join the league, but if some players complaining about him , that mean that 2300 elo isn't his real skill.
Sorry for my english, i make my best

Ahh, my bad Ultimate. I did misunderstand you.


Anyways, my thoughts on the game is simple. There is no TKing or intentional feeding. From my experience Donald is one of those people that try to lumber harder than he should and usually when playing vs good players, ends up sufferring. He tried to fix his mistake instead of pressing his lumber, so there wasn't anything intentional about losing. This is more of a Noob play instead of a TK or anything else.

[DonaldtheDuckie]

It would appear I'm fashionably late to my own party.

A few comments regarding this game, as it has obviously piqued some interest to elicit 3 pages of comments. Beep was red, and therefore according to the lihl rules, the captain in this game.

I fucked up lvl 4, yes, I know it comes as a shock to some of you, we're all human, even me ( well except for when I'm posing as my favorite cartoon character). That being said, humans make mistakes, I made one lvl 4 and spent the game recovering from it. What has not been voiced in this thread, is that there were being made some much more serious mistakes on the team as a result of poor communication. Then subsequently, in posting this thread, but I'll get b to that later.

For those who havent watched the replay, I'll provide a brief summary. Red is captain of the team, blue got archers and does classic build til lvl 7, I am teal, and surprises everyone by doing a mistake lvl 4 (I am a moonie fan, and thought shed do it better with lifesteal) then spends my time recovering from believing too much in her.

As the archers player, after lvl 8 blue asks red , as the captain, if he wants him to go full income, 7-7, or to build to hold lvl 10. Notice, at this time blue had a looot of gold, over 500, which would have been enough for a gryph and a wyvern for lvl 9 whilst still maintaining a nice income, Red does not answer.

Please note that red is the captain and should as such, captain his team. Red did not communicate at all as to our gameplan on lvl 10 and as such failed in his capacity as captain. Failing any input from our captain, I suggest we mass on 10, thinking I'll cover my lane soso, which would make it np if red carries the day. Red says at this point that blue wont hold anyway and should go 7-7, but says nothing about upping king, which makes me think he is really confident in his own ability to hold lvl 10.

So we mass for 10, blue leaks the expected 3 bosses 50 % + hp with his classic inc archer build, I leak 2 bosses at 887 and 1557 hp respectively, while our captain, whom I thought should carry the day, does not even manage to clear all his adds, making him leak 3 archers and 2 bosses at 2627 hp and 1491 hp respectively, the bosses then proceed to our king, and right before we die Beep says that Donald plays for the other team.

Now at this point, I was laughing my ass off cause of the insanity of the situation.

You got a captain, who got no communication skills, who leaked more than I did 10, who failed to see that we should have built more for 10, ( mb tell blue to build 9 and 10) or upped the king, and then who has the outrageous nerve to accuse me of tking by writing that I play for the other team, something he did to me some time ago whilst elo racing on the pub bots, a race, which I won despite his unfair efforts to make me lose.

What is even more outrageous, is that beep makes this thread, and most of you respond to his allegations of teamkilling, whilst only focussing on me making a mistake, calling me noob and such for my mistake lvl 4, saying 2300 elo is no indication of skill etc, not looking at the game as a whole.

I was ready to put all of this childish drama behind beep and me, he seemed happy enough about playing with me when I carried him to victories in other games, yet appears to live in his own world regarding this game, where he leaked more than I did lvl 10, then proceeds to make this thread. Is this the kind of behaviour you want from people in the lihl? No communication, making flamethreads on the forum after games you lost where you blame it all on your allies, then asking in those flamethreads " if them being "scrub" or losing on purpose is enough to get unvouched?"

I know what I think, but what do you think?

[iightfyre]

Beep was red, and therefore according to the lihl rules, the captain in this game.

There is no rule about who is captain. This is a team game.

What has not been voiced in this thread, is that there were being made some much more serious mistakes on the team as a result of poor communication.

The thread was created as an allegation of a team kill, therefore we have stuck to the topic. The fact that there was poor communication is irrelevant to the topic; even though it is obviously the case.

Please note that red is the captain and should as such, captain his team.

Once again, there is no rule about who is captain.

What is even more outrageous, is that beep makes this thread, and most of you respond to his allegations of teamkilling, whilst only focussing on me making a mistake, calling me noob and such for my mistake lvl 4, saying 2300 elo is no indication of skill etc, not looking at the game as a whole.

1. It is not outrageous that we all responded to the allegations of a team kill; this is the whole purpose of the thread.
2. I agree that bringing up your ELO and bashing your skill level is a little bit harsh; we have all made mistakes!

Note: This thread is not intended to become a pissing contest. If the flame wars continue I will lock this post.

[iightfyre]

The auto-balancing algorithm chooses the teams such that the difference in average ELO is minimized. It also places the highest ELO player of each team as the captain.

MY BAD! I see where you found this now (Thanks Dweller!)

Ok, so I'm not sure what the intentions of the word "captain" was. To my understanding, this should mean the "owner" that has extra access to bot commands and not means that they call the shots in game.

I will clarification ASAP for everyone.

[supersexyy]

The issue was brought up and it has been collectively agreed that no TKing did exist.

[iightfyre]

^

[BA_Fail]

I have to say, I sympathize with ducky because I recently played with beep and experienced the same thing. I would ask when we send, what to do and only get silence from my team. Only at the last second do I get a response.

Its like if he is busy doing something else or talking to his allies on Skype. Also some other type of people we all hate like to send at the last second, so I'd like for him to change that.