!draw rule in LIHL

[BeepBoopBeep]

i voted for ...


Change the "!draw rule" to lvl 7 & Punish DC'ers

[dweiler]

Hey guys, I am really glad to see this healthy discussion. It makes me wish I had done this instead of filing a complaint (if it was possible). It is great to see some people backing me up as well, haha (Almost makes me wanna play again, but I shouldn't, so don't lead me into temptation)

I did vote although I am not vouched (I saw it too late, I am sorry). My opinion is clear, but I want to say a small thing about it (Cyberpunk referred to it already):

Removing the draw rule completely may sound harsh, but it is not harsh at all. What it actually means is: you are not, before level 20, forced, under all circumstances and in all situations, to draw. In other words, if the remaining players feel like a draw is in place after someone disconnects, you can. What removing this rule does, is giving the autonomy and responsibility back to the players. Drawing won't be compulsory, but it is for the judgment of the players. So, don't think of this rule as "they are gonna take the draw away", but rather as "they are giving the draw option back to the players".

One note, then, about the poll itself. The options 'change the draw rule to lvl 7' and 'remove the draw rule completely' may be a bit too close to each other. Although all other options are clearly distinct and will therefore attract the right votes, those two rules might snatch each other's vote. For example, I want to either not change anything at all or a removal of the draw rule. I might think, well I am against, but before level 7 the game hasn't started, so i will pick that one, or take the option of complete abolishing of the draw rule since I am against the draw rule. Point is both are against the draw rule, except that the 'before lvl 7' one has a minor modification which might distort the voters who are in favor of the dismissal of the draw rule. (Yes, always a critical note )

[DonaldtheDuckie]

Voted for removing the communist rule of draw and giving the autonomy back to the playerbase, and for punishing the dcers. I also feel like it's only the dcer that should be punished, though I got no problem with the others being rewarded if thats the only way the dcers can be punished. I also feel that 21 elo punishment doesnt cut it, let the penalty be 50 elo instead, 2 x the elo effect of the game = 30 ,+ 20 as the actual punishment.

[Diablo_]

i voted for ...
Change the "!draw rule" to lvl 7 & Punish DC'ers

same!

To clarify on the proposed + ELO to those who have !drawn the game.

The ELO in a game is a +/- system which makes every game worth 30 elo. When a player wins 15 elo, another player loses 15 elo. The only way for us to penalize a DC player by making them lose 21 ELO is to redistribute that ELO to other players. We cannot take ELO out of the system without replacing it. If we could punish players for DC's with a 21 ELO loss and not redistribute this ELO then, in theory, everyone (over enough time.. many many years I assume) could get to 0 ELO and there would be no ELO left in the LIHL system.

I hope this makes sense. In layman's terms "You cant remove ELO, you can only redistribute it"

In theory yes, but it won't be the case in the LIHL for two reasons:
1) Seasons will never last long enough (nor will there be enough disconnects to counter #2 I believe)
2) Every time someone joins the LIHL there are an extra 1000 ELO in the pot.
So it really wouldn't be needed.

One note, then, about the poll itself. The options 'change the draw rule to lvl 7' and 'remove the draw rule completely' may be a bit too close to each other. Although all other options are clearly distinct and will therefore attract the right votes, those two rules might snatch each other's vote. For example, I want to either not change anything at all or a removal of the draw rule. I might think, well I am against, but before level 7 the game hasn't started, so i will pick that one, or take the option of complete abolishing of the draw rule since I am against the draw rule. Point is both are against the draw rule, except that the 'before lvl 7' one has a minor modification which might distort the voters who are in favor of the dismissal of the draw rule. (Yes, always a critical note )

Once again, I had quite similar thoughts, but not the exactly the same :p
The poll isn't well done, sorry! There should be two polls, one of them dealing with the !draw question itself (first 3 answers) and the other one dealing with the question how to handle leavers (last 2 answers). The reason are cases like supersexyy - and few others - (nothing against you, your answers are totally fine) as he couldn't vote on the !draw situation (change nothing) cause the 2 leaver penalties were more important to him, thus the poll gets a bit distorted as his answer about the real !draw question is missing.
I know that might be a bit too critical but as I've learned quite a bit about questionnaires/polls/interviews etc. in my studies I had to mention it

[supersexyy]

Well #4 and #5 are also similar, so its no big deal.
We can make a new poll with less options.

[dweiler]

Just to make sure,

If removing the draw rule and punishing disconnecters end in the top 2 together (as it looks like now), does this mean the disconnecter gets a punishment and the others play on (or draw if they agree on it), or is either the one or the other implemented?

[supersexyy]

One or the other

[Diablo_]

Aw, really?
Well then I missunderstood that and my criticism is null :p

[dweiler]

Yeah, maybe it is confusing then. For example, looking at Duckie's response, he wants both the disconnecter to be punished and the drawing rule to disappear. Perhaps he finds the denial of the draw rule more important, it is smarter to just fill in 1 option then, because voting for both will nullify his vote. He's not a dumb guy, and Diablo_ seems like an intelligent person to me as well, and he understood it differently, so I guess more people have filled this poll in wrongly then.

Perhaps this would be the right way to do the poll: 1st round what should we do about the draw rule? 1. remove 2. hold it in place. If 1. wins, then the draw rule is removed, if 2. wins, then we can give all the other options: 1. punish dc'ers, 2. time-out, 3. make the draw rule last until lvl7, 4. change nothing at all.

I think this won't lead to confusion and gives a fair shot to all options.

But perhaps it is too much effort to make a new poll again, which I can understand and respect.

[DonaldtheDuckie]

Better to do it like this imo, as it retains the option to remove the draw AND punish the dcers, so option 1 as you said:

1. Draw or no draw?

2. if Draw, any modifications to the draw rule?

3. Punishment for dcing?
- elo loss?
yes, no,
if yes how large?
-30, 40 , 50?

- temp ban ?
Yes, no?
if yes, how long?
1 day, 2 days, 3 days?

I'd answer it :
1. nodraw
3. elo loss punishment - 50.
no temp ban.

[supersexyy]

We're not going to have 3 seperate polls.

[DonaldtheDuckie]

It's just 1 poll sex, as you give all users 2 options,
1. option regarding draw,

2. option regarding dc punishment

2 options in 1 poll = 1 poll


you could do it like this, but doing 3 polls in the questionnaire way is way better.
But it would require that the poll users only use 1 option in 1-3 and 1 in 4-9

poll question: What should happen to the !draw rule in LIHL and how should dcers be handled?


1. draw rule removed
2. draw rule kept as it is
3. draw rule modified to being mandatory before lvl 7
4. Dc'ers punished by 30 elo
5. dcers punished by 50 elo
6. dcers punished by temp ban - 1 day
7. dcers punished by 30 elo and temp ban - 1 day
8. dcers punished by 50 elo and temp ban - 1 day
9. dcers not punished at all

[supersexyy]

Yes, I'll make a new poll shortly with the two frontrunners for a final decision.

A poll with 9 options, let me serious now Duckie...

[iG0D]

i voted for punishment and this is what id like seen done... First off the game is over if anyone leaves (it becomes unfair for the others at anypoint in the game) but people who played should be given a small amount of elo FROM the person who d/c'd... (so like 3-5 elo each)... if this person d/c's alot i think after a certain point we should have an auto-ban for heavy d/cing OR make it manditory for heavy d/cers to get gproxy...

so quick recap *Punish them but make everyone else gain elo and start a new game*

[eldryan]

lol wtf -50 elo...