Early signs

KiwiLeKiller · Postby **KiwiLeKiller** » Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:40 pm

I got nothing against anyone here, but shit needs to stop.
2 games.
First got unhosted, but HazarDous, da_pwnerer, Achillesgr and SupremeBeing early signed and game did not end. Notice how da_pwnerer started the game at 5:16, it got hosted at 5:21 (5 minutes before the expected ending time).
Second game, da_pwnerer and yumyumdodo signed while game didn't end.

Spoiler!

mega-tuby · Postby **mega-tuby** » Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:56 pm

Diablo_ · Postby **Diablo_** » Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:09 pm

Today donki lagged out with gproxy, and some people already signed and started a new game while he could still reconnect ... quite silly.

KiwiLeKiller · Postby **KiwiLeKiller** » Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:13 pm

mega-tuby wrote::lol:

So you're thinking this is funny?

Crazy_Skeleton · Postby **Crazy_Skeleton** » Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:16 pm

Well I said I am sorry immidiatly on discord, but seems Kiwi needs some blood for this mistake

. The only funny thing is that 4 players will be unvouched (Fate is still unvouched) so it will be even harder to make a game

.

Jamo · Postby **Jamo** » Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:25 pm

I agree that this is extremely annoying.
But, there is a rule now forbidding to sign when u are ingame, no?

I mean, everybody doing it is no excuse. And doing it TWICE and failing, is report worthy indeed in my opinion.

mega-tuby · Postby **mega-tuby** » Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:20 pm

kiwi i think u r funny kid , not this report funny. :lol:

Postby **HazarDous** » Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:02 am

I did early sign, and I do apologize for that. We sent around 14k on level 15 and so we genuinely thought game was over.

Beside, is this an invitation to discuss the issue or a report? I don't see the logic behind the latter.

For one, OP was not part of the game. For two, we all signed after level started and as I said, it seemed as though game was going to end with 2x infernal send and no real holder on other side. Lastly, it may have been a rule break, but nobody actually had to wait as a result of these early signs. 5 minutes into the first lobby, and there were only 4/8 people inside, which means players would've had to wait regardless of early sign or not.

Any rule break can be reported, but we also appreciate some degree of understanding and discretion given that this is a difficult situation to cope with for everyone. Either you sign early or you lose your spot. Most players here have been on both side of the issue, and so it would make sense to use judgement and to report only when harm is done to someone rather than for the sake of reporting.

I've said it many times already. This is a situation which has no immediate solution. You can't expect players to stop signing early when they believe and judge that a game is over, because there is more risk in waiting for the game to end than in signing early. In other words, you'd miss in on more games by not signing early than you'd miss by receiving a ban for the one game you misjudged and signed early while game was, in fact, not over.

This is where judgement and discretion should be applied. For instance, if someone signed before even sending. If someone's early sign forced others to wait 5 minutes for nothing in the lobby while others could have taken their spot. Those are situations that should be reported within the harmed party's discretion. Remember, the 5 minute rule is nothing new, and yet, it has virtually never been reported before. People afk >5minutes in-game/lobby all the time, and we don't report them because shit happens.

Given OP's tendencies to cause drama, I am no fan of his reporting of anything that doesn't concern him and that's really not a big deal whenever he is having a bad day. This is nothing that's been done with malicious intent and so an unvouch, let alone a report, for something so inconsequential, is very uncalled for.

With regards to the second game, dodo and pwner joined before 5 minute had expired and so they've broken no rule. In fact, Jamo could be reported for swapping them without consent. @FadingSuns , Wether they've early signed or not is completely irrelevant, and so I'm not sure as to why you condoned their swapping out by Jamo.

Meshtar · Postby **Meshtar** » Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:42 am

HazarDous wrote:
For one, OP was not part of the game. For two, we all signed after level started and as I said, it seemed as though game was going to end with 2x infernal send and no real holder on other side. Lastly, it may have been a rule break, but nobody actually had to wait as a result of these early signs. 5 minutes into the first lobby, and there were only 4/8 people inside, which means players would've had to wait regardless of early sign or not.

Any rule break can be reported, but we also appreciate some degree of understanding and discretion given that this is a difficult situation to cope with for everyone. Either you sign early or you lose your spot. Most players here have been on both side of the issue, and so it would make sense to use judgement and to report only when harm is done to someone rather than for the sake of reporting.

I used the same argument when me and Achilles were reported for the same thing. They couldn't have started the game anyway if we didn't tk sign. It was nevertheless decided that we take 1 day unvouch since we were reported for that. If this is indeed a report then you should all take a day unvouch. Same rules and standards for everyone in lihl right?
If its just a discussion topic then its pointless as it won't change anything in regards how people sign to avoid getting sniped or losing spot in next game.
Just decide what this topic is about and proccess and archive it, its just creating pointless drama atm.

Jamo · Postby **Jamo** » Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:25 am

Lol Haza, you are now using the exact same arguments we read here a couple of days back and decided it was nonsense.
I don't get the logic.
" Either you sign early or you lose your spot."
Sorry, but this doesn't make sense. If you would lose spot, then by singing early simply someone else loses the spot. So, there will always be someone losing a spot. And the only ones I feel kind of sorry for are king controllers. But I gave them my spot already several times, for example.

"but nobody actually had to wait as a result of these early signs"
No, we just were joining 2 games which never filled up. Then those games get unhosted at some point, new games are created. People that were signed get sniped in new game start etc. Sorry, but only because we didn't wait for only 1 player but FOUR, doesn' mean it has no impact. There were also super huge confusions and let's call it "discussions" afterwars. All completely unnecessary.

I mean, nobody would be reporting this for happening once! But it happened in the same game, with 5 minutes delay, TWICE. Maybe one could learn from the first mistake and on the second send just wait and see what happens. Cannot be that hard...

KiwiLeKiller · Postby **KiwiLeKiller** » Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:15 am

HazarDous wrote:Given OP's tendencies to cause drama

LMAO Fuck you?

This sticker was put on me the day I joined LIHL, either because I say what needs to be said or that I do what I'm allowed to, but I never reported someone for the fun of it. In fact, I could've signed for that game, but I knew I had to go in 40ish minutes. Knowing that many people early sign recently, I decided not to sign. And you know what? This is exactly what happened: If I signed, I would not have been able to play anyway, because 4(!) fucking people don't show up. It would have ruined my gaming experience too. I also decided to report because not further than 2 days ago, it happened again and none of us reported (YES KIWILEDRAMA DIDN'T REPORT!!! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAH!!!).

So, I I said, this is a formal report.

FadingSuns · Postby **FadingSuns** » Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:42 pm

HazarDous wrote:I did early sign, and I do apologize for that. We sent around 14k on level 15 and so we genuinely thought game was over.

Beside, is this an invitation to discuss the issue or a report? I don't see the logic behind the latter.

For one, OP was not part of the game. For two, we all signed after level started and as I said, it seemed as though game was going to end with 2x infernal send and no real holder on other side. Lastly, it may have been a rule break, but nobody actually had to wait as a result of these early signs. 5 minutes into the first lobby, and there were only 4/8 people inside, which means players would've had to wait regardless of early sign or not.

Any rule break can be reported, but we also appreciate some degree of understanding and discretion given that this is a difficult situation to cope with for everyone. Either you sign early or you lose your spot. Most players here have been on both side of the issue, and so it would make sense to use judgement and to report only when harm is done to someone rather than for the sake of reporting.

I've said it many times already. This is a situation which has no immediate solution. You can't expect players to stop signing early when they believe and judge that a game is over, because there is more risk in waiting for the game to end than in signing early. In other words, you'd miss in on more games by not signing early than you'd miss by receiving a ban for the one game you misjudged and signed early while game was, in fact, not over.

This is where judgement and discretion should be applied. For instance, if someone signed before even sending. If someone's early sign forced others to wait 5 minutes for nothing in the lobby while others could have taken their spot. Those are situations that should be reported within the harmed party's discretion. Remember, the 5 minute rule is nothing new, and yet, it has virtually never been reported before. People afk >5minutes in-game/lobby all the time, and we don't report them because shit happens.

Given OP's tendencies to cause drama, I am no fan of his reporting of anything that doesn't concern him and that's really not a big deal whenever he is having a bad day. This is nothing that's been done with malicious intent and so an unvouch, let alone a report, for something so inconsequential, is very uncalled for.

With regards to the second game, dodo and pwner joined before 5 minute had expired and so they've broken no rule. In fact, Jamo could be reported for swapping them without consent. @FadingSuns , Wether they've early signed or not is completely irrelevant, and so I'm not sure as to why you condoned their swapping out by Jamo.

Ofc. They already early signed for previous game and it needed to be unhosted. Again they signed before lvl 19 start. Ofc i could have also sign but ingame i asked them to unsign. Sign first time was accidental ok, but second? even if they made it on time it was pure abuse, specually after they already did it and failed in the same game. In this case, it was da pownerer starting the fail game and signing before lvl 19 starts. As i said, the 5 min rule is not the only thing to be taken into account. U really try to hide ur fail by accusating me @hazardous? If u check the whole case together does not make sense to apply the 5 min rule when dapownerer is consistently breaking the rule. About dodo, 3 secs after i asked pownerer to unsign she just signed. As im telling, i could also sign on 19, even on 18. But u need to be respectfull for all players and more when u already failed within the same game. Start a game while u playing, fait it, early sign before 19 starts and its my fault?. I will do same as i did if i see it again.

Postby **HazarDous** » Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:08 pm

@Meshtarius

I don't know about your case, I did not review it. Only you can judge whether it applies here or not. The fact remains that it is a difficult issue, and when there is no harm actually done (impact), then an unvouch is not appropriate. I would not unvouch someone for afking 6 minutes in-game if he tells me something came up, probably a warning.

@Jamo

Jamo, unless I missed something, you did not have the players to start a game with. So you would never have started anyway. I am not saying it was no lack of respect as I did apologize for it. It merely doesn't warrant the upset it caused in you and/or others. The afterward confusion you are referring to was caused by your swapping out of dodo and pwner, which was not OKay. You can only swap once the 5 minute has passed and one has not shown up. You also seem to think that early-signing by itself is against the rules... It is not. Players can early sign so long as they join lobby within 5 minutes. Hence, dodo/pwner broke no rule on the second game.. they did nothing "twice".

@KiwileKiller

Who are you trying to fool here? You've 2 personalities. Either you're super cool or you're super angry and that's where the drama flows. Just because you did not report 2 days ago when someone might have 'harmed' you by early signing doesn't mean you have the right to report others out of nowhere for something that doesn't concern you at all just because now you're angry. This does nothing but stir drama.

@FadingSuns

I did apologize a few times already so no, I'm not trying to hide my fail. Neither is your statement correct when you say: "the 5 min rule is not the only thing to be taken into account.". A rules needs to be broken before moderator(s) apply their judgement. You did the opposite by telling Jamo he could swap out pwner and dodo before the 5 minute was reached.

Meshtar · Postby **Meshtar** » Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:36 pm

HazarDous wrote:@Meshtarius

I don't know about your case, I did not review it. Only you can judge whether it applies here or not. The fact remains that it is a difficult issue, and when there is no harm actually done (impact), then an unvouch is not appropriate. I would not unvouch someone for afking 6 minutes in-game if he tells me something came up, probably a warning.

It was exactly the same in a sense that we signed for the next game thinking game ends on that lvl due to huge leak and send. Game didn't end and new game was created with Achilles and myself in it. I apologized and argued in lihl chat right away they should just swap someone in and if no one is there or they don't wanna wait just unhost the game, neither me nor Achilles were hosts at the time. The logic was exactly the same, if us 2 didn't sign they wouldn't be able to create a game anyway and would still be waiting for a game the exact same amount of time. Nevertheless we were reported and as Ace told me at the time "All mods discussed it and agreed this thing should start being punished, even if it might open Pandora's box". So we took our 1 day unvouch, didn't appeal or protest. This is exactly the same in that sense and if this is a report you all should get a day unvouch, otherwise these are just double standards. I surely don't want anyone's blood or anything, you witnessed I don't want to report even bigger stuff than this, but what ticks me off are double standards with something that has clearly been set as a rule starting with Achilles and myself. Actually, the rule existed before, but this was apparently something that mods wanted to do to prevent people from tk signing. If this is a report take the unvouch and close the topic tbh, everything else is futile argument.

Jamo · Postby **Jamo** » Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:40 pm

HazarDous wrote:Jamo, unless I missed something, you did not have the players to start a game with. So you would never have started anyway. I am not saying it was no lack of respect as I did apologize for it.

This first sentence, I don't care about, really. The circumstances don't matter imo, it's a thing of principle and a matter of respect, like you said. You see what drama is caused, which is totally unnecessary. And then some people don't even understand this behavior might be wrong. And what I don't like about the effects of this is, that suddenly it's the people waiting in lobby, that have to take care of not being sniped, when they maybe not realize the first game will never be hosted. This really shouldn't be the case.
I don't even know why I am getting so stubborn about this one, I really don't care when this happens once. But this repeated misbehavior within a short time and lame excuses, I don't understand.
I think the rules should be updated and I actually thought with Mesh and Achilles case, this actually happened! Now we have the same case and different handling of the situation, doesn't make sense to me!
Just don't allow sign as long as you are in a game. Maybe in some cases one cannot fully judge it then, but at least those super early signs would be forbidden... It happens every second day or so that this causes drama...

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