sell 210 to push

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KiwiLeKiller
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Re: sell 210 to push

Postby KiwiLeKiller » Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:30 pm

Don_Killuminati wrote:I'm too lazy to read all but i still wonder, is that rule was made to avoid clog or to handicap suiciders?

I think any is fine. Clog is abusive and suiciding shows no skill. Anyone in mega can suicide, it might be "good" to have someone as a lumber bank, but people tend to suicide too much and it has no place as it is now in an in-house skilled league.

In my opinion, if you suicide with decent units such as nightmare or infantry, you should not be allowed to sell them like it's nothing. They are not suiciding units, and if you still suicide with it, in what is supposed to be a "skilled league", you should plan it in advance in order to be able to sell some units for less than 200 gold.

Maybe the rules needs to be changed. I don't think it needs to be changed. But what is sure is that the current rule is you cannot sell more then 200 gold. No matter if this rule is appropriate or not, nicolaisen did break this rule, so an unvouch should follow.
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Re: sell 210 to push

Postby FadingSuns » Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:35 pm

Don_Killuminati wrote:This is one of the most tk rule i have ever seen, so i'm not surprise to see people arguing over and over about it.
I'm too lazy to read all but i still wonder, is that rule was made to avoid clog or to handicap suiciders?


Im making myself same question, thats why i pretend to differentiate it on here

viewtopic.php?f=72&t=120776

all input is welcome

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Re: sell 210 to push

Postby dweiler » Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:39 pm

Alright closing this topic.
You don't stop playing because you grow old; you grow old because you stop playing.

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Re: sell 210 to push

Postby Don_Killuminati » Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:01 pm

Kiwi wrote:
Don_Killuminati wrote:I'm too lazy to read all but i still wonder, is that rule was made to avoid clog or to handicap suiciders?

I think any is fine. Clog is abusive and suiciding shows no skill. Anyone in mega can suicide, it might be "good" to have someone as a lumber bank, but people tend to suicide too much and it has no place as it is now in an in-house skilled league.


I agree that clog is abusive but i also think that its not the best way to prevent it proved by the current meta and ppl asking going clog in chat without any pressure.
Regarding suiciding imo you are wrong, in an in-house league, ppl have to tend doing optimal things so i dont think that staying low with dead value would show some sort of skill and imo at the moment, suicide is the least mastered thing ( late suicide, full send lvl10, no sell to push earlier ect..).

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Re: sell 210 to push

Postby Kreutertee » Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:35 pm

FadingSuns wrote:Lets use this case as exampl. Why is kreu reporting this rule break? to get a vendeta ban CLEARLY. we all know it has 0 impact on game, when i say 0 i mean 0. that about 1 second more to push can be 1 more wood and 1 more wood can be the differnce between heal or not its purely tk reasoning.

Kreu had issues with nico ingame for x reason. he saw him "breaking a rule" so he got his ban. if u check the way they blamed each other is 100% clear that the skeletons sell was the last of their probles on this game and was just ab excuse to get ur "enemy" ban.


Two things:
1.) Nico, not Vendeta, but yes of course, I wanted him to get banned. To learn from it. I despise people who just pointlessly suicide and force a certain gameplay. Cause by selling he leaves us no option and he he sold way before we finished talking about it or how best to execute a certain call. By him selling his units he forces a certain gameplay on us. So as far as that goes, hell yeah it had a huge impact on the game. Cause we took 1 heal with z 3 3 send in 10, if we just full send we can take maybe 2 or 3 heals, who knows. Then we can push and resend 15, cause we were strong 15. Likewise, we could've chosen if 15 was then the right call. Maybe needed no leak, race/clog 17, maybe needed no leak 16, maybe needed push and re 14. But we couldn't do any of this, since he suicide his lane completely and not being remotely able to hold his lane 11-14, in case we needed it. I wasn't a real big fan of straight 12 anyway, but since 2 people already agreed I saved the energy to argue against it. But he even rolled a polar, strong unit, and would've been easily possibel to clear 13/14. And him being low value and for example 7/7 or 7/8, but still being able to clear rounds is a big difference to being 7/9 or 7/10 and just 100% suicide and just leak every round. That's why I reported it, cause it's poor gameplay.

2.) No, I didn't have issues with him in particular. But it is clear now we all have a very different understanding of what good gameplay is and what is not. And when I see him forcing a certain gameplay (which is in all-in call in 12) on us, I feel violated. And when I see he's doing it with even an illegal maneuver, I report it. Cause I think it is safe to assume, he would do the exact same thing next game I play against him. And I don't wanna be abused like that and maybe lose the game cause of him playing against the rules and gaining an advantage.

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Re: sell 210 to push

Postby HazarDous » Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:18 pm

Kiwi wrote:Straight from Discord:
"You cannot sell more than 200 value, period. If you sell a nightmare on level 7 in order to suicide, but build back the difference, the rule is broken" - HazarDous


Cmon Kiwi, you can't quote others in such a bad faith ~~

You cannot sell more than 200 value, period. If you sell a nightmare on level 7 in order to suicide, but build back the difference, the rule is broken, but moderators will apply their judgement in such cases.

In no way can you sell >200 before sending rounds in order to leak more.


Moving on, there will be a poll.

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Re: sell 210 to push

Postby KiwiLeKiller » Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:36 pm

HazarDous wrote:
Kiwi wrote:Straight from Discord:
"You cannot sell more than 200 value, period. If you sell a nightmare on level 7 in order to suicide, but build back the difference, the rule is broken" - HazarDous


Cmon Kiwi, you can't quote others in such a bad faith ~~

You cannot sell more than 200 value, period. If you sell a nightmare on level 7 in order to suicide, but build back the difference, the rule is broken, but moderators will apply their judgement in such cases.

In no way can you sell >200 before sending rounds in order to leak more.


Moving on, there will be a poll.

Moderators will apply their judgement on what? If the player sold over 200 or not? WTF? Doesn't need judgement for that hahahahah

And anyway, nico didn'T even build back the 15 gold he sold too much, so it's a clear rule violation, but once again, nothing is done.
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Re: sell 210 to push

Postby HazarDous » Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:40 pm

Kiwi wrote:Moderators will apply their judgement on what? If the player sold over 200 or not? WTF? Doesn't need judgement for that hahahahah


Judgement on whether to ban or not. The rule wasn't implemented to discriminate between a suicide nightmare and a disciple suicide, but to reduce clog. Therefore, we applied common sense not to ban for players who sold nm (215) and built back 15 gold, as there was no benefice over someone who sold 200 disciple.

Kiwi wrote:And anyway, nico didn'T even build back the 15 gold he sold too much, so it's a clear rule violation, but once again, nothing is done.


Really? I just banned him...

Unvouched 1 day.

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Re: sell 210 to push

Postby Im_Halp » Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:23 pm

Kiwi wrote:but people tend to suicide too much and it has no place as it is now in an in-house skilled league.

In my opinion, if you suicide with decent units such as nightmare or infantry, you should not be allowed to sell them like it's nothing. They are not suiciding units, and if you still suicide with it, in what is supposed to be a "skilled league", you should plan it in advance in order to be able to sell some units for less than 200 gold.


Its also important to add that some players try to push people to suicide. While ofcourse they can not force you it does get quite annoying when you have two or three people heckling you to suicide while you dont want to. That is another issue we would need to solve.

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Re: sell 210 to push

Postby KiwiLeKiller » Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:41 pm

HazarDous wrote:
Kiwi wrote:Moderators will apply their judgement on what? If the player sold over 200 or not? WTF? Doesn't need judgement for that hahahahah


Judgement on whether to ban or not. The rule wasn't implemented to discriminate between a suicide nightmare and a disciple suicide, but to reduce clog. Therefore, we applied common sense not to ban for players who sold nm (215) and built back 15 gold, as there was no benefice over someone who sold 200 disciple.

Kiwi wrote:And anyway, nico didn'T even build back the 15 gold he sold too much, so it's a clear rule violation, but once again, nothing is done.


Really? I just banned him...

Unvouched 1 day.

Sorry, missed that part where you unvouched him. My bad, I just assumed it was being disregarded as it was moved to to LIHL archive and not Processed cases.
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Re: sell 210 to push

Postby Kreutertee » Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:46 pm

It was in processed already, but mick moved it back after the discussion came up. Then someone "tk move" it to archive.


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