Is that ghosting?

Moderator: LIHL Staff

Kreutertee
Treant
Posts: 487
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:23 pm
Has thanked: 49 times
Been thanked: 65 times

Is that ghosting?

Postby Kreutertee » Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:54 pm

When an observer sees creeps stuck, especially when on send level for DD or something like that, is the observer [ allowed | required | not allowed ] to inform about a stuck creep?

What about if someone calls AFK in lobby and noone else seems to realize and no pause? Same here, are observers [ allowed | required | not allowed ] to inform about potential afk?

I'm never sure how to act, when I see things like that and I usually shut up :)

Would love to hear your thoughts.
Last edited by Kreutertee on Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

nicolai123
Treant
Posts: 391
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2014 10:37 am
Location: Islamic State
Has thanked: 60 times
Been thanked: 37 times
Contact:

Re: Is that ghosting?

Postby nicolai123 » Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:58 pm

I wouldn't say the observers are required to do anything to prevent rule breaking, but at the same time i wouldn't punish them for pointing out a creep is stuck or pausing for an afk.

FateStayNight
Forest Walker
Posts: 231
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:23 pm
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 27 times

Re: Is that ghosting?

Postby FateStayNight » Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:00 pm

Imo, the highest priority in an inhouse league should always be fairplay (ya thats coming from me bla bla :D), so imo its fine to pause game if you see someone is afk, i already did that several times before level 1.

The problem is, lets say east has stuck creep on level 7 and doesnt lose heal because of it, but you didnt see it. Then on level 16 you see 2 stuck salamander and tell them and cuz of that they fail dd send it seems kinda unfair again.

Kreutertee
Treant
Posts: 487
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:23 pm
Has thanked: 49 times
Been thanked: 65 times

Re: Is that ghosting?

Postby Kreutertee » Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:04 pm

Unfair to whom tho? The sender or the receiver? Being able to send DD due to glitch/bug or having the disadvantage to receive DD due to glitch/bug?

I personally would like to tell about stuck units, cause it's the most fair imo.
Last edited by Kreutertee on Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Vendeta
Treant Protector
Posts: 653
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:58 pm
Has thanked: 72 times
Been thanked: 36 times

Re: Is that ghosting?

Postby Vendeta » Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:06 pm

@Meshtar

Please, tell us what u think about this.
These users thanked the author Vendeta for the post:
MudMan (Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:43 pm)
D.S. 1989

FateStayNight
Forest Walker
Posts: 231
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:23 pm
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 27 times

Re: Is that ghosting?

Postby FateStayNight » Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:07 pm

i mean, lets say there are 2 bugs in the whole match, 1 with advantage for east the other for west, but you only realize one of them. Then you give the one team an advantage.

Kreutertee
Treant
Posts: 487
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:23 pm
Has thanked: 49 times
Been thanked: 65 times

Re: Is that ghosting?

Postby Kreutertee » Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:13 pm

In general I agree, might be a disadvantage to one team, but then again, two bugs, same game, on opposite teams seems highly unlikely.

But that's the thing, there is no clear answer to those questions, always gray areas. One could argue, is 1 heal more important than DD send? When team could hold No-DD send, but would die to DD. Did the 1 heal even impact the time, when one team sends? There's a lot of "what" and "if", which would have to be looked at in detail on each case and even then a clear assessment wouldn't always be possible.

That's why I'd also like to know what the Mods think about it and how they'd rule on it :)

nicolai123
Treant
Posts: 391
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2014 10:37 am
Location: Islamic State
Has thanked: 60 times
Been thanked: 37 times
Contact:

Re: Is that ghosting?

Postby nicolai123 » Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:27 pm

FateStayNight wrote:Imo, the highest priority in an inhouse league should always be fairplay (ya thats coming from me bla bla :D), so imo its fine to pause game if you see someone is afk, i already did that several times before level 1.

The problem is, lets say east has stuck creep on level 7 and doesnt lose heal because of it, but you didnt see it. Then on level 16 you see 2 stuck salamander and tell them and cuz of that they fail dd send it seems kinda unfair again.


evening out an unfairness isn't unfair

edit: and if not even an obs sees a stuck unit on 7 i doubt the team will spot it either, so its still not unfair, since 16 stucks tends to be easier to spot since everyone is looking at the leaks. I think thats just a result of in-game strategy, and doesn't really have anything to do with observers

User avatar
Meshtar
Treant
Posts: 470
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2014 3:21 pm
Has thanked: 79 times
Been thanked: 81 times

Re: Is that ghosting?

Postby Meshtar » Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:10 pm

Vendeta wrote:@Meshtar

Please, tell us what u think about this.

This topic isn't worthy of an essay.
These users thanked the author Meshtar for the post:
bezdak (Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:59 pm)

User avatar
HazarDous
Staff Department
Posts: 9051
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2015 9:36 pm
Has thanked: 70 times
Been thanked: 227 times

Re: Is that ghosting?

Postby HazarDous » Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:10 pm

Let's keep in mind that ghosting is defined by giving away information to someone about their opponent that they do not/should not have access to. With regards to a stuck creep, I don't think that'd be ghosting given enemy team can, technically, obtain that information by counting leaking creeps ~~. Anyhow, I would argue that the longer a creep remains stuck, the more the mechanism is/can be 'abused'. I'd say the sooner the creep is anti-stuck, the better.

Regarding afk... we all want fair games, right? Opponents often ask if their enemy [who called AFK in lobby] is back, and pause otherwise. Therefore, it's fair to say that if opponent himself would pause, there's no reason why that information should be withheld from game players.

FateStayNight
Forest Walker
Posts: 231
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:23 pm
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 27 times

Re: Is that ghosting?

Postby FateStayNight » Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:15 pm

-

KiwiLeKiller
Treant Protector
Posts: 601
Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 12:44 am
Has thanked: 166 times
Been thanked: 120 times

Re: Is that ghosting?

Postby KiwiLeKiller » Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:57 pm

Observers should NEVER participate in any possible way to the gameplay, even though it feels right.
"in a moment of extreme passion"
- Beastman (2017)

User avatar
dweiler
Plague Treant
Posts: 1735
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:28 pm
Location: The Netherlands
Has thanked: 88 times
Been thanked: 232 times

Re: Is that ghosting?

Postby dweiler » Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:39 pm

In the case of a stuck creep, no problem saying that, since that is a bug and teams should anti-stuck as soon as possible. In pretty much all other cases, don't do it. Pausing is a team's own responsibility. I once interfered in that, and found out I was wrong interpreting it, making a huge mistake on obs, that's when I found out it's better to just stay out of it :)
These users thanked the author dweiler for the post:
Kreutertee (Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:13 am)
You don't stop playing because you grow old; you grow old because you stop playing.


Return to “LIHL Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests