HI I HAVE A IDEA FOR 2S

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godlik3
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HI I HAVE A IDEA FOR 2S

Postby godlik3 » Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:07 pm

can we make 2s winners on season also? no need prize just the title.
my idea is on 2s game players wins elo for main lihl and also elo for a separate 2s games!
i think this way more ppl will play 2s games and new strategies will come from it!

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Re: HI I HAVE A IDEA FOR 2S

Postby bigM » Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:12 pm

imo it would be cool to see your win-/lossrate for 2s and/or 4s via discord bot - if that's somehow possible.

Since I don't really care about a "title" for 2s, I will mindlessly support, since no reason not to.

+

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Re: HI I HAVE A IDEA FOR 2S

Postby archol » Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:13 pm

Maybe seperate stats for the next season would be benefiting for this mode - as its quite unpopular more less since it was created (harder and different mode, more impact due towers and calls etc.). Yet more and more are starting to play it - one of the reason might be the inactivity or the chance that i tell the last signer that he/she can pick his/her teammate rofl
Last edited by archol on Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: HI I HAVE A IDEA FOR 2S

Postby Meshtar » Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:17 pm

I'd actually suggest to separate 2s elo from 3s and 4s so that it doesn't add to the regular season elo sum. Since all 2s games are 15/15 we dont need 2s elo to determine winner in 2s bracket, just the difference between total 2s wins vs total 2s losses can tell who won 2s season if people wanna know who did best in 2s. But the most important part would be, for the regular season elo, making people play regular votebalanced games rather than doing 2s premades which are by definition unbalanced. I'm not posting this to diddle Hazard or Fiji, they aren't first to do it, just saying it would make sense to keep things competitive. Also the thing that many other players suggested, elo decay, so people cant sit on accumulated elo and elomanage till season ends. It would make things competitive and uncertain thus adding some extra flare to the season competition.

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Re: HI I HAVE A IDEA FOR 2S

Postby archol » Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:24 pm

Meshtar wrote:I'm not posting this to diddle Hazard or Fiji, they aren't first to do it, just saying it would make sense to keep things competitive. Also the thing that many other players suggested, elo decay, so people cant sit on accumulated elo and elomanage till season ends. It would make things competitive and uncertain thus adding some extra flare to the season competition.


I agree if they stack when they face newer or inexperienced 2s players, but if the teams are more or less even then it shouldnt matter.

Elo decay wont help to make the league more active and competitive, its more contraproductive in my opinion.

One option is to get the league more active. When i play 1200+ i see quite a lot of skilled players (due the fact that 1200 players are way more skilled than in the past), who were or are interested in joining LIHL but are either too lazy or think they will be a pain in the ass (lack of skills, scared of insults/blaming etc.) etc. So either the mods will start a huge offensive towards that or make the requirements less demanding - best example points vouch request as far i remember.

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Re: HI I HAVE A IDEA FOR 2S

Postby MudMan » Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:56 pm

Meshtar wrote:I'd actually suggest to separate 2s elo from 3s and 4s so that it doesn't add to the regular season elo sum. Since all 2s games are 15/15 we dont need 2s elo to determine winner in 2s bracket, just the difference between total 2s wins vs total 2s losses can tell who won 2s season if people wanna know who did best in 2s. But the most important part would be, for the regular season elo, making people play regular votebalanced games rather than doing 2s premades which are by definition unbalanced. I'm not posting this to diddle Hazard or Fiji, they aren't first to do it, just saying it would make sense to keep things competitive. Also the thing that many other players suggested, elo decay, so people cant sit on accumulated elo and elomanage till season ends. It would make things competitive and uncertain thus adding some extra flare to the season competition.


super agree with this

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Re: HI I HAVE A IDEA FOR 2S

Postby FadingSuns » Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:26 pm

Each X months someone come with a new brilliant idea and then u realize its the same shit repeated over and over...

Recurrent topic

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Re: HI I HAVE A IDEA FOR 2S

Postby SLSGuennter » Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:54 pm

Boys, browse the archive. :)
As far as i remember, we already had some discussion about making 2s into an own ladder, but after all talked about this (even several times if i remember correctly) we always came to the conclusion its rather contraproductve.
If people would actually start playing some 2s, there wouldnt be a problem with "stacked teams".
Tip from me: FREAKIN SIGN TO ANY As (while A may either be 2, 3 or 4).

If you split one ladder into two, you get smaller ladders (MATHEMATICS), and they may be used to fire the oven soon, cuz being useless to climb a house (due to being to short).
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Re: HI I HAVE A IDEA FOR 2S

Postby Jamo » Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:08 am

Only because things never happened doesn't mean it wouldn'take sense to do it. Yes Separating 2s from 4s was discussed often, but honestly it probably wasn't done because it's just too much work for something that's is not that important. I would actually also like to see it because those are completely different games, but it's just not a big enough deal to do it.

I will never understand why 2s and 4s can not seperately be started on bot. I think this would be super useful, also promote 2s more, because now people who want to play 2s are mostly forced into playing 3s or 4s etc. But again, it's work related, not so important, so it will not happen. SMe like elo decay etc. All great ideas that Basic everyone supports. But won't happen because I guess it's only Dia working on such things, and you can't put all that workload on him. So I kinda reached a point realizing major changes will never happen in lihl.

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Re: HI I HAVE A IDEA FOR 2S

Postby BoretkPanda » Sat Jun 30, 2018 8:24 am

there are about 4 people who pref 2s over 4s

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Re: HI I HAVE A IDEA FOR 2S

Postby Meshtar » Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:24 am

Jamo wrote: So I kinda reached a point realizing major changes will never happen in lihl.


This is actually the biggest problem in lihl. Anytime someone suggest something new you have an army of nay-sayers saying how they just know it won't work cause of this or that reason. You can't know something won't work or that people won't like it unless you actually try it. Asuming Diablo is willing to invest his time then why not try new things if we can always revert to old way if new one doesn't work? Why are people so afraid of changing anything? Am I the only one who finds it boring to a degree to play the exact same people in exact same way every season? Shouldn't we at least try to add some variety and try out some new things that can actually turn out to be fun?

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Re: HI I HAVE A IDEA FOR 2S

Postby archol » Sat Jun 30, 2018 11:14 am

Meshtar wrote:Am I the only one who finds it boring to a degree to play the exact same people in exact same way every season? Shouldn't we at least try to add some variety and try out some new things that can actually turn out to be fun?


Thats why i greatly suggest that we get more players into LIHL - although we do have a lot of vouched players, the inacitivity is as worse as in the past seasons. There were times, when we had 2-3 full 4s or more in the evening (+1 timezone).

New players improve the variety, are mostly motivated and thus increasing the activity of the league, and we have plenty of them in 1200 - who im certain that can be a benefit for the league, as their skilllevel and behaviour is as good as half of the league or even better, if they gain new(er) experiences of higher gameplay.

Either we find a way to promote that or we stay in the same bubble as Jamo wrote.

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Re: HI I HAVE A IDEA FOR 2S

Postby BoretkPanda » Sat Jun 30, 2018 1:07 pm

archol wrote:
Meshtar wrote:Am I the only one who finds it boring to a degree to play the exact same people in exact same way every season? Shouldn't we at least try to add some variety and try out some new things that can actually turn out to be fun?


Thats why i greatly suggest that we get more players into LIHL - although we do have a lot of vouched players, the inacitivity is as worse as in the past seasons. There were times, when we had 2-3 full 4s or more in the evening (+1 timezone).

New players improve the variety, are mostly motivated and thus increasing the activity of the league, and we have plenty of them in 1200 - who im certain that can be a benefit for the league, as their skilllevel and behaviour is as good as half of the league or even better, if they gain new(er) experiences of higher gameplay.

Either we find a way to promote that or we stay in the same bubble as Jamo wrote.


u cant compare Seasons when on this season fxp is in Summer + worldcup.
Ofc people play more at february when cold and dark anyway.
But yes, activity gets lower - but also at 1200+.

and anyway why 4s gets more active when we have 2s ladder? :D

"hey we have low activity at 4s - lets get more chnces for people to dodge that mode"

some days ago Hazard and you and 2 others decided after draw at lvl1 to skip4s and go 2s. and guess what happend? u 4 played 2s and 5 others couldnt 4s anymore. (there were no more 4s for next 3 hours and we were forced to play at 1200)

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Re: HI I HAVE A IDEA FOR 2S

Postby Meshtar » Sat Jun 30, 2018 1:21 pm

All that you wrote is true Panda. That is why this idea can work only if there is no elo in 2s. Only winrate. Elo has a strange effect on people desire to play, so if no elo in 2s, 4s won't be in any trouble ;)

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Re: HI I HAVE A IDEA FOR 2S

Postby nicolai123 » Sat Jun 30, 2018 2:36 pm

Meshtar wrote: Also the thing that many other players suggested, elo decay, so people cant sit on accumulated elo and elomanage till season ends. It would make things competitive and uncertain thus adding some extra flare to the season competition.


I dont see the point of elo decay in a 3 month season to be honest unless you are going to make it unreasonably short period before it starts decaying.

People spend a lot of time and effort to try hard and get to the top, what if they played rly well at the start of a season, and then have exam period, or their computer breaks.

I feel like elo decay ultimately would make experience less fun for people and it would feel like their hard work was wasted.

What if u had 1500 elo at the start of a season, and then you had to go on vacation and it all degraded to 1000? It would suck wouldn't it? But i guess that is besides the point of this thread.

Regarding the 2s thing: I think a separate elo for 2s would be cool since there is much more RNG and way less skill involved in 2s than in 4s. Normal bots have separate elo for 1s, 2s and 4s aswell, why shouldn't lihl do that aswell?


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