Everything to sieging

Burn
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Everything to sieging

Postby Burn » Sun Dec 28, 2014 11:20 am

Preface: I was initially going to edit this guide, but seeing as it's old and buried, I will make a new topic dedicated solely on one of the most important aspects most titans get wrong. Sieging.

This guide is for the latest stable release, 3.0.9d. The guide will be updated later for 4.0.0.

Step by step guide to sieging:

Step 1: Make sure you have enough minions and feed in order to siege the base. This comes from personal experience and different builds. Choose your titan build here. I will recommend the life essence or the super regen armored spines build.

Essential items for sieging: Titanic wards, and Floating eye (if they have truesight, make sure you have more than one floating eye). Everything else is bonus luxury. These two items allow you to indefinitely stay at a base sieging, and makes sure you have the vision needed to attack walls covered by fog (commonly overlooked factor), and prevent re-walling without having to spend mana on pearling.

Step 2: Pearl the base to scout out everything. Take special note of bounce-able workers, workers next to trees to nuke, and bounce-able hunters, who is the re-waller, if they have lumber pooling, etc.
Step 3: Camp a minion at the shop so they don't lumber feed if you have enough minions. Put it in fog, so when a turtle comes out to buy stuff and you think it has 5-6 items already on it, nuke it with a level 2 nuke to earn yourself your treasure.
Step 4: Make sure that the collective amount of units are able to one hit a builder with enough nukes. You will not be able to break a base if you don't have enough nuking power.
Step 5: Make sure you are sieging as soon as possible. You don't want bases up for long, or they will lumber feed, and you will lose at GP. When you get enough minions and get your titanic wards and floating eye, siege as soon as possible.
Step 6: Don't waste your heals and mana early on, unless you have life essence. Normally time is not a factor, so it's okay if you spend a bit of time healing up with titanic wards, and making sure you prevent re-walling by nuking re-wallers down.
Step 7: Practise your chain sync nuke. You should be able to chain a nuke off a hunter easily with tab nuking.

[Q][Click target][tab][Q][Click target]

That is a double nuke. Repeat if necessary. If you are able to do this fast enough, you will be able to triple nuke a 50/50 hp unit and be able to let it bounce onto another builder.
Step 8: Make sure you have followed a good skill build. A suggested skill build is:

For minions with bounce nuke and bounce heal only (Suggested Syph or Molt for beginners)

Main titan:
1) Level one scout ability (don't get eye of the ocean on syph though, that's not the scout ability. Put two levels into water minions instead)
2) Nuke lvl 1
3) WW
4) Save skill points. If you need to upgrade your nuke, then do so. If you are about to siege, put the rest of the points into heal.

Minions:
1) Nuke lvl 1
2) WW
3) Save points (if you are about to siege, put two in nuke and have no heal)
4) Heal lvl 2 (if you siege at level 4 minion, then leave nuke at level 1 and put two in heal)

The reason why I like to save my points is so I can have the option to either go nuke minion or heal minion. You never know if you need that extra point in nuke to catch that scumbag Demo trying to nether away. You will get used to skilling a skill in the last second and before sieging with experience.

Step 9: Use the floating eye in fog. There is a few seconds of transition WW time for the floating eye so watch out for that as well. Make sure to put the floating eye out of range of ranged heroes or builders if they have true sight.

Step 10: Control groups. Suggested control groups:

[1] Main titan (or F1, but sometimes it bugs and you have to use [1] for main titan if titan is not [F1])
[2] Pearler
[3] All minions
[4] All units, including water minions
[5] Teleport cage
[6] Mini-minions
[7] Chimaera scout, water minions or floating eye

Step 11: When sieging, put your unit that you want to tank in the front. This is normally just a minion.
Step 12: Put a titanic ward down.
Step 13: Select all units, then right click the first wall.
Step 14: Select a unit and right click it back if it gets lower than half HP. This is essential because you don't want to waste WW to back up, so you have to account for tower damage taking a lot of your HP.
Step 15: If they focus your main titan, use your heal to get to full HP, then back off.
Step 16: You want to keep your main titan HP at full HP the whole time, so that when a re-waller comes out, you can just charge your main titan forward to stop him from re-walling, and making sure your minions are following you so that you can nuke him down.
Step 17: Repeat above steps, taking away a wall at a time. Don't get greedy, taking two walls at a time speeds things up, but if you are an underfed titan, you will lose too much HP and allow builders to re-wall.
Step 18: When the base has less than 3 layers of walls, check your mana and WW cooldowns. (if you did everything perfectly, all units should have WW)
Step 19: Send the units with WW CD to the back.
Step 20: Make sure every unit is at full HP, then put down a titanic ward inside the base, near the towers.

This is the end of the first twenty steps. There are two ways to go from here. It depends on whether or not the base has truesight or not.

No truesight minion rush:

Step 21: The first way is to just use your main titan, attack as much as possible, continuously heal as much as possible (this should be the first time you use your minion heals so that you conserve mana for the big minion rush), then WW when you are 1/3 HP.
Step 22: When you are full HP, all your skills and heals should be all on cooldown, as well as the minions.
Step 23: Put down a titanic ward down so that it reaches a lot of the remaining walls and towers.
Step 24: Rush in your minions first
Step 25: Break WW on your main titan when your minions have reached your location so that you will have 3 units hitting the wall you want to kill.
Step 26: Since you rushed your minions in first before you broke your main's WW, you must WW your dying minion.
Step 27: De-select your minion from your [4] control group by shift clicking the unit
Step 28: Press [control] + [4] so that your [4] control group is re-made without the low minion, so when you right click units or nuke things, it doesn't break WW, and he stays in WW to regenerate beside the titanic ward.
Step 29: Repeat steps 26 to 28 above to keep all your minions alive, and destroy buildings in a bee-line towards the builders if the towers are doing too much damage. If it is not, then you can feed off everything in your sight.
Step 30: Secure builder deaths. If the builders don't have teleport, use one minion per builder to secure their deaths. Normally there will be a wall jump out, so send a minion behind the base so when it jumps out, you will be able to assassinate him.
Step 31: If you think you can't feed off all the towers and have to back soon, then you can charge towards the builders and chain nuke them all to death.

Minion rush when builders have truesight
Following the first steps 1 to 20 above, the enemy base should have around 3 layers of walls.

Step 21: Select control group [4]
Step 22: Group up so all units are close together.
Step 23: Put a minion in front of your group
Step 24: Put your main titan so it is second in your group since it should deal more damage
Step 24.5: Make sure there are two fresh wards down, both touching each other. One will be near the towers, and the second will be where your minions retreat to since there is truesight.
Step 25: Use WW when minions are half health. If you find that you made a mistake and a minion doesn't have WW, then spam heals, then teleport it away. This is another reason why you save your heals, as a precaution for mis-micro.
Step 26: When WW'd, if they use truesight, you have to back the single minion. All the way to the safe ward away from tower DPS.
Step 27: When the minion is safe, de-select the low minion from your [4] control group by selecting the [4] control group first, then shift clicking the unit with the low health.
Step 28: Re-group the control group without the low HP minion by pressing [control] + [4] so that your [4] control group is re-made without the low HP minion, so that when you right click units or nuke things, it doesn't break WW, and he stays out of range of towers to regenerate beside the titanic ward.
Step 29: Make sure that there is a titanic ward covering every unit and where you're about to go. This is an easy thing to forget, but is essential for your success.
Step 30: When a minion or the main titan is low, make sure you use your chain heals to re-boost the HP back up to 100%. When main titan is too low and there are no heals left, use WW to get away to safety, or use the cage's teleport.
Step 31: Repeat Steps 24.5 to 30 until all the remaining wall layers are penetrated.
Step 32: Secure builder deaths. If the builders don't have teleport, use one minion per builder to secure their deaths. Normally there will be a wall jump out, so send a minion behind the base so when it jumps out, you will be able to assassinate him.
Step 33: If you think you can't feed off all the towers and have to back soon, then you can charge towards the builders and chain nuke them all to death.

General tips:
Spoiler!
  • Generally, you should use every one of your skill points when you are about to siege, every single skill point might help, don't wait until lvl 5 to skill everything if you are about to siege. Exceptions include your level 3 minion with one point left over is very close to becoming a level 4 heal minion just by a few walls or workers.
  • If you have 2 or less minions, consider getting level 2 nuke, or just don't siege until you farm more minions. Many titans get heal minions, early on, but having two lvl 2 nuke minions can mean life or death, and preventing re-walling or getting re-walled.
  • Pass the titanic ward to another minion straight after you use it so it is never on CD.
  • Some titans get level 2 heal and level 1 nuke on lvl 3 minions when sieging, but I find a level 1 nuke and level 1 WW and saving up for a level 2 heal on minions is still best for sieging, and get the level 2 heal when you need it. WW is really good for mini-rushes when they focus your minion, or when you WW your main titan.
  • Always get a floating eye unless you have a sentry ward, or have enough minions to just use titanic wards for vision (assuming they don't have a flying hunter)
  • Before sieging a base, always pearl the base to scout out everything, and take note of everything. Does the base have bounce-able workers for sync nuke? Flying hunter to bounce nuke? Who will do the re-walling, do you need wotw or ward blocks to kill the re-waller? etc.
  • Don't let the floating eye die or be in attack range of any of their units. The moment you see a tracker or a gnoll who might've set his sentry ward down, back your precious 8G eye off.
  • Have at least 2-3 floating eyes if you are sieging the last base alive and there is no other feed.
  • A lot of the times their lumber base is just a few steps away from free nukes - worker feed is huge, but careful of 100hp workers if they have a merchant.
  • Always have a nuke on every single one of your minions. Some titans like to skill lvl 1 WW and lvl 2 heal with a lvl 3 minion. I strongly advise against this.
  • Don't get heal minions until your minions are level 4. Reason being WW and nuke being so much superior compared to heal minions without nuke or WW. There are few exceptions to this rule.
  • Have minions close to your main titan when you are sieging so you can chain nuke units in range. When you are backing a single unit, back every single unit so they don't block, or use WW. This generally happens after GP when the builder has megas that can just simply rape any low level minion.
  • Always nuke the titan hunter. If you are not careful, a fed titan hunter will be very annoying, especially a Draenei or Nature hunter(tanker with fortified armour and avatar).
  • When you see Euros quad-basing, type QQ in all caps then feed off noobs and rape the base later when you are level 16.
  • Learn how to floating eye fog abuse sync nuke. This is very satisfying when people triple or quad base and pussy out in one base, allowing easy bounce nukes. Here is an example of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hhs6cBr ... CzvF6fzd_w


-Burn
Last edited by Burn on Tue Dec 30, 2014 4:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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TimmyTheTauren
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Re: Everything to sieging

Postby TimmyTheTauren » Tue Dec 30, 2014 1:52 am

hi burn. So a few discrepencies in guide if you're playing the latest version:

you cannot sell items from turtle to shops, so you don't really need to camp it. (unless you are insanely aware tryhard that will immediately nuke a turtle coming to buy items to bring back to base)

Molt has scout phoenix without having to use a skill point on it.

You cannot get syph watery minions till like level 6 (which is shit, @neco fix plz)

"You never know if you need that extra point in heal to catch that scumbag Demo trying to nether away." I think you mean nuke.

5 is noob hotkey for cage

step 16 typo "him"

some steps have periods some don't (consistency pls)

euros quad basing is much less effective

ur welcome dood
Spoiler!
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Re: Everything to sieging

Postby Burn » Tue Dec 30, 2014 4:57 am

Added "This guide is for the latest stable release, 3.0.9d. The guide will be updated later for 4.0.0."
Fixed step 16 typo
5 is fine for cage, you don't use it as much as the previous hotkeys, and it goes well with [5] + [e] and [5] + [s]/[q]. You can swap it with [2] for pearler if you must, but that's just personal preference.

Thanks for input!
-Burn

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Re: Everything to sieging

Postby BeeKauzh » Thu Jan 01, 2015 11:49 pm

Here's my optimal titan build for 4.0.0 for most titans.
Alot of items/recipes gold cost has been lowered from 9d making some high gold cost items easier to get.
Titan's damage has also been lowered considerably making some old builds not as good as they use to be.
Titan's inventory//Minion's inventory
I usually start by getting the items in the minion's inventory then start getting the Titan's items in whatever order.
If you were to get all items from this build you will easily destroy any base in one go.
If you have about half or less of these items simply use the steps Burn listed above and you should do fine.
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Re: Everything to sieging

Postby Burn » Fri Jan 02, 2015 12:37 am

Since I didn't want item builds to be inside the guide, I'll write it here. This would be my recommended build, but of course, each item is dependent on titan and builder's base. I might translate this post into an item build guide later on, but no guarantees.

PS: This is still for map 3.0.9d, since I haven't played 4.0.0 enough. I assume the map is still similar in the sense that my item builds will still work.

Starting items: (in order of which I think is best)
Spoiler!
Starting item #1
Sell ankh
Webbed feet
Ward
wotw
eye of the ocean (Not a popular starting item, but if you don't want to wait for cooldown of wotw, and might need since you don't have pearl)
Chimaera scout

Starting item #2
Sell ankh
Webbed feet
ward (ward block)
wotw
Chimaera scout
Sell ankh
Pearl
Webbed feet
Chimaera scout

Starting item #3
Sell ankh
Webbed feet
ward (ward block)
ward (ward block)
ward (ward block)
Chimaera scout
Pearl
Chimaera scout

Starting item #4
Keep ankh
Webbed feet
wotw/ward
Chimaera scout

Starting item #5
Random
Keep ankh
Webbed feet
pearl

Starting item #5
Be molt
Keep ankh
Pearl
Replenish potion
Scout bird
Triple nuke builder stick in seed


With extra 10g from random, you can buy wotws/wards or early pearl.

Moltenious (one of the best titans for beginners, and top tier titan in 3.0.9d):
Starting items (take your pick, recommended starting item #2 since you have truesight with birdy)
Sell ankh
Webbed feet
ward (ward block)
wotw
ward
Chimaera scout
Sell ankh
Pearl
Webbed feet
Chimaera scout (keep, use for later or item jumping, don't waste for scouting unless you don't find a base with the scout in the mound)

Pearl, if minion is obtained before eternal ward
Always keep one or two Wotw on main titan, and pass off to minions if you need space
Pearl, if minion is obtained after eternal ward
Titanic ward
Magic coral
Floating eye (get even if you're not sieging if there are vulnerable workers in a tower base, EXP feed can sometimes trump that 8gold floating eye, but make sure you have chimaera scouts to pick-up free items. Picking up a staff of TP(6g) or even another Eye of the Ocean will get your money back anyway)
Life Essence
Armour of fate
Ankh of power + Titanic trident stacking or berserkers Gem
Abysmal water for ultimate stalling

Do not get helm of the dominator, berserkers gem is always a better fit in regards of DPS and minion DPS. It is also 10 gold cheaper! Helm of Command is a better item than berserkers gem only because of the aura, but only get it if you aren't going hotd. I'd even recommend titanic tridents over HotD.

Tips:
1) If there is a fed supporter like a Mag with Polar Wrath avatar, go more offense - titanic trident (gives HP and damage), HotD (pure damage), fiery claw (pure damage + wall sieging DoT), Berserkers gem, etc.
2) If the towers are weak, build armour+regen. AoF(goes well with titanic ward), SraS, life essence
3) Always have titanic ward, basically a regen item that heals every unit indefinitely with insane amount of regen. It shouldn't be a big problem to learn how to micro titanic wards.
4) If towers are strong, and base is hard to break, go for a more nuke build with minion skills, and go for the floating eye chain sync nuke, and get either fog generator or energy rod. Remember to always energy rod first then nuke, as nukes have a longer cast time. Always attempt to hide the fog generator and use it as a WW nuke, so that builders won't know what hit them. When fog gen is revealed, then use it however way you want.
5) Buy as many chimaera scouts as you can, they may help you late game for scouting or just picking up items in general. Optimally, you should have at least two chimaera scouts on every minion. Chimaera scouts (minions too) reset the cooldown of items in their inventory when they die, and on a new chimaera scout.

-Burn
Last edited by Burn on Tue Apr 28, 2015 6:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Everything to sieging

Postby TooNoobForU » Thu Feb 19, 2015 8:32 am

BeeKauzh wrote:Here's my optimal titan build for 4.0.0 for most titans.
Alot of items/recipes gold cost has been lowered from 9d making some high gold cost items easier to get.
Titan's damage has also been lowered considerably making some old builds not as good as they use to be.
Titan's inventory//Minion's inventory
I usually start by getting the items in the minion's inventory then start getting the Titan's items in whatever order.
If you were to get all items from this build you will easily destroy any base in one go.
If you have about half or less of these items simply use the steps Burn listed above and you should do fine.



Another way to effectively siege is to buy fog generator atleast 1 then get titanic wards to heal then buy rod and mirror to nuke. if all hopes fail rush and try to win !
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Re: Everything to sieging

Postby Burn » Thu Feb 19, 2015 2:26 pm

Maybe I will update this guide to 4.0.0, but I am reluctant to do so because Neco is doing a good job with changes and everything, and I don't want to rewrite the guide every time stats change.

But yeah, Fog generator is really good in 4.0.0 because builders have to get 75 gold for both ARC then Merchant to get gnoll trackers, then 5 more gold for a greater gnoll, which is what counters fog gen.

-Burn

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Re: Everything to sieging

Postby Stealer » Thu Feb 19, 2015 8:54 pm

Eh if you don't have a shitty satyr you can perma-gnoll pretty easily.

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Re: Everything to sieging

Postby Burn » Fri Feb 20, 2015 12:58 am

Yeah, satyrs are nice in that regard, I want to also mention demo's infinite sac from demonic fiend to counter fog gen.

4.0.0 nerfed sat hard though, so sats are even more useless than they already were.

-Burn

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Re: Everything to sieging

Postby Stealer » Fri Feb 20, 2015 7:06 am

Burn wrote:I want to also mention demo's infinite sac from demonic fiend to counter fog gen.



besides the fact that I'll ban somebody if they get caught doing that, neco says he fixed it.

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Re: Everything to sieging

Postby Burn » Fri Feb 20, 2015 7:08 am

It's not bannable?

Demonic fiend has a sac. Costs 750 wood and research unit time if you do it.

Keywords: Demonic, fiend.

-Burn


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