A few unit prices that I think should be changed around

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alllllllllabal
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A few unit prices that I think should be changed around

Postby alllllllllabal » Sat Oct 15, 2016 9:43 pm

Been thinking about this for a little while, and I think that there are a few good towers that could use a slight change in purchase price.

Colts --> 15, Riders --> 105, while riders are sweet, and I think at the right price (overall 120) colts at 20 gold have virtually no use, unless you roll a witch doctor, and even then they are super weak.

Acolyte --> 15 or 20 with no food cost, Revenant --> 85, Already having been nerfed when the farm upgrade got changed to 40 gold, I think the acolyte price should be changed to 15, or maybe 20 but not cost food. Revenants are right where they should be though I think.

Wandigoo --> 160, Ancient --> 270, Another price redistribution, Wandigoos are so much worse than their upgrade between a low evasion rating and a low hp pool, and I think the cost should take that into account.


A few towers that seem generally overpriced to me are:
Knights (admittedly their crit is worth more since recent updates)

Slaves (I know everyone has different opinions on them, but I'd like to see them cost 30. The champion is essentially a slave nerf since it can kill servants and slaves without aggroing them)

Tempest (the cost makes them generally unusable, but at their price point they still do have situational uses)

Underpriced towers:
Peewee (especially strong since champion patch, they have always been the best starting tower)
Hydra (everybody builds them when they roll them, they dominate arenas, and have what is probably the best ability in the game)
Ghost (Even at 425 and 5 food it has a huge impact on the game and can carry most builds through 17, and is also great for after 20)

I realize this is all up to personal interpretation, and nobody will fully agree on this as well all have our own playstyles. It'd be interesting to see what everyone else thinks.

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Re: A few unit prices that I think should be changed around

Postby Zulthar » Sun Oct 16, 2016 3:58 am

alllllllllabal wrote:Colts --> 15, Riders --> 105, while riders are sweet, and I think at the right price (overall 120) colts at 20 gold have virtually no use, unless you roll a witch doctor, and even then they are super weak.


Colts are a horrible unit, don't even know what to use them for... they struggle badly on level 1 solo. Ya riders do have a nice debuff and does great on 10 only need 1 line of them. plus mid/late game

alllllllllabal wrote:Acolyte --> 15 or 20 with no food cost, Revenant --> 85, Already having been nerfed when the farm upgrade got changed to 40 gold, I think the acolyte price should be changed to 15, or maybe 20 but not cost food. Revenants are right where they should be though I think.


I wouldn't mind if price was increased by 15 to 20g on Revenants, in order to have no food cost on them. food cost does suck, but making them cheaper people will spam them for 10/20, can already pass both levels using them, with decent tanks. and for 20 need reduce armor and aoe slow with Wandigoos or tank with higher health.

alllllllllabal wrote:Wandigoo --> 160, Ancient --> 270, Another price redistribution, Wandigoos are so much worse than their upgrade between a low evasion rating and a low hp pool, and I think the cost should take that into account.


don't see nothing wrong with this guy, great tank.


alllllllllabal wrote:A few towers that seem generally overpriced to me are:


alllllllllabal wrote:Slaves (I know everyone has different opinions on them, but I'd like to see them cost 30. The champion is essentially a slave nerf since it can kill servants and slaves without aggroing them)


Ac mode they are a challenge to use, NC mode nah cause champions based on % not every wave. AC mode meant to be harder.

alllllllllabal wrote:Tempest (the cost makes them generally unusable, but at their price point they still do have situational uses)


Tempest/Leviathan, does seem a little bit overpriced to me also, only reason why, health seems low to me for the type of attack speed, with a horrible passive skill behind the attack speed, Would like to see passive skill be reworked on it.

alllllllllabal wrote:Underpriced towers:
Peewee (especially strong since champion patch, they have always been the best starting tower)

hmmm, can't really push as fast with them in AC mode vs NC, beat few players using them on level 7 probably cause they are used to NC mode.

alllllllllabal wrote:Hydra (everybody builds them when they roll them, they dominate arenas, and have what is probably the best ability in the game)


they don't always dominate arenas, if you ever get this combo try guards as tanks for 10, and use upgraded wyvers, and if u get ghost even better, will beat hydra user in arena with that set up, there are other units that can do it also. But they are a challenge though in arena, but possible to beat, Don't really think hydras under priced, and they have been nerfed already, there are levels they are pretty weak on, and can make a player leak badly, like 14 :twisted: Let players spam them early game, might get a free win out of it lol if his partner does bad also lol.

alllllllllabal wrote:Ghost (Even at 425 and 5 food it has a huge impact on the game and can carry most builds through 17, and is also great for after 20)


Ghost is really good, but was thinking if priced did get increased, by how much though if you think about it? pretend you're in the game, make 3 necs on level 1, passed level 1, upgrade ghost on level 2 and you're fine, repeat but this time, 3 necs on level 1, didn't pass 1, level 2 sell 1 nec upgrade one of the remaining, to a ghost and you're fine.

pretending, price has now been increased on ghost, level 1 make 3 necs, passed level 1, level two sell two necs, upgrade the only one remaining, to a ghost, now you're fine 3/4/5. It would have to be increased pretty high, damage has already been nerfed on ghost. and if it did get increased, players just be able to make it on level 3, if you think about it. Might not be as convenient using a ghost, but there quite a bit of units that can push faster then a ghost.


Wanted to add 1 unit, Neo tank.... Life steal is great on the tank, but man that passive skill range 150.... makes the unit not so desirable for the cost.

Well just wanted to give feed back. :-)

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Re: A few unit prices that I think should be changed around

Postby HELLRAlSER » Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:27 am

i will take you guys input into consideration.

If you or someone else has anything more to say on those or other units pls do.

Zulthar wrote:Wanted to add 1 unit, Neo tank.... Life steal is great on the tank, but man that passive skill range 150.... makes the unit not so desirable for the cost.

410dps on 450 range and 3k fortified hp not good enough? And it even have a lifesteal, even if i completely remove the plague i think it will still be a good unit...

Nonetheless i will give it a minor buff and see how it goes.

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Re: A few unit prices that I think should be changed around

Postby alllllllllabal » Mon Oct 17, 2016 6:25 pm

Zulthar wrote:
alllllllllabal wrote:Wandigoo --> 160, Ancient --> 270, Another price redistribution, Wandigoos are so much worse than their upgrade between a low evasion rating and a low hp pool, and I think the cost should take that into account.


don't see nothing wrong with this guy, great tank.


The ancient wandigoo is an awesome tank; but the unupgraded one, with only 750 hp at 180 gold, and only 15 % evasion rate (essentially 862 hp) is super weak on early levels. Compare it to say, bottom feeders, which have a similar effective hp pool, but cost only 85 gold. In terms of tanking ability the unupgraded wandigoo is very bad, however its attack is definitely stronger than the bottom feeders, so I don't think it needs a huge buff. Just a slight price restructure to compensate. With my suggestion, the final price for the Ancient Wandigoos would stay the same, you would just pay less for the first and more for the second.

Zulthar wrote:
alllllllllabal wrote:A few towers that seem generally overpriced to me are:


alllllllllabal wrote:Slaves (I know everyone has different opinions on them, but I'd like to see them cost 30. The champion is essentially a slave nerf since it can kill servants and slaves without aggroing them)


Ac mode they are a challenge to use, NC mode nah cause champions based on % not every wave. AC mode meant to be harder.


Yes, AC mode is meant to be harder, but it gets more difficult for slave builds than almost any other build, as you have a much greater chance that at least some of the slave income will be killed, if not all on random levels.

Zulthar wrote:
alllllllllabal wrote:Underpriced towers:
Peewee (especially strong since champion patch, they have always been the best starting tower)

hmmm, can't really push as fast with them in AC mode vs NC, beat few players using them on level 7 probably cause they are used to NC mode.

alllllllllabal wrote:Hydra (everybody builds them when they roll them, they dominate arenas, and have what is probably the best ability in the game)


they don't always dominate arenas, if you ever get this combo try guards as tanks for 10, and use upgraded wyvers, and if u get ghost even better, will beat hydra user in arena with that set up, there are other units that can do it also. But they are a challenge though in arena, but possible to beat, Don't really think hydras under priced, and they have been nerfed already, there are levels they are pretty weak on, and can make a player leak badly, like 14 :twisted: Let players spam them early game, might get a free win out of it lol if his partner does bad also lol.


Yes, it is not impossible to beat hydra, but its very rare, and requires specific builds. The last hydra nerf (hp taken from mini-hydras) was very small and had almost no consequence. Sure hydra have a slight weakness on 14 and 17 if they are all you build, but every tower has weaknesses, and in comparison, the hydra weakness is almost inconsequential when they are used correctly. The fact that players are even willing to spam only hydra should be used as a point that they are too strong. Almost no towers are good enough to spam outright, which is, in my opinion, how it should be.

Zulthar wrote:
alllllllllabal wrote:Ghost (Even at 425 and 5 food it has a huge impact on the game and can carry most builds through 17, and is also great for after 20)


Ghost is really good, but was thinking if priced did get increased, by how much though if you think about it? pretend you're in the game, make 3 necs on level 1, passed level 1, upgrade ghost on level 2 and you're fine, repeat but this time, 3 necs on level 1, didn't pass 1, level 2 sell 1 nec upgrade one of the remaining, to a ghost and you're fine.


pretending, price has now been increased on ghost, level 1 make 3 necs, passed level 1, level two sell two necs, upgrade the only one remaining, to a ghost, now you're fine 3/4/5. It would have to be increased pretty high, damage has already been nerfed on ghost. and if it did get increased, players just be able to make it on level 3, if you think about it. Might not be as convenient using a ghost, but there quite a bit of units that can push faster then a ghost.


Not sure, maybe just a small price increase to 475 to deter players from getting a ghost super early?

Zulthar wrote:Wanted to add 1 unit, Neo tank.... Life steal is great on the tank, but man that passive skill range 150.... makes the unit not so desirable for the cost.

Well just wanted to give feed back. :-)


I agree that the neotank is a weird unit, but it does have quite strong statlines. I think that what makes the neotank hard to use is that it won't tank for towers such as adepts and revenants due to its long attack range. I'd like to see the attack range on them lowered a little bit to make them more effective tanks, rather than dps. The neotank's role is currently played better by the steamroller/assualt tank anyway, it'd be cool to see a little more diversity between 2 of the most similar towers in the game.

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Re: A few unit prices that I think should be changed around

Postby alllllllllabal » Mon Oct 17, 2016 6:31 pm

HELLRAlSER wrote:i will take you guys input into consideration.

If you or someone else has anything more to say on those or other units pls do.



I'd also love to hear what you think. From other suggestions I've seen you respond to, it seems like you have a knack for seeing how these changes would create unforeseen issues down the road.

Also I'm sure there are other towers that I am forgetting about, and some that I just don't use very often so I wouldn't be the one to know what to do with them.

How do you guys feel about, for example: Orc Warriors, Zombies, Geomancers, Machine Turrets, and Sprites? I usually avoid these towers, however as most towers do, I'm sure they have situational uses that I am overlooking.

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Re: A few unit prices that I think should be changed around

Postby Zulthar » Mon Oct 17, 2016 7:05 pm

alllllllllabal wrote:I'd like to see the attack range on them lowered a little bit to make them more effective tanks, rather than dps.


would be able to make some interesting builds if main attack was lowered :-p

alllllllllabal wrote:How do you guys feel about, for example: Orc Warriors, Zombies, Geomancers, Machine Turrets, and Sprites? I usually avoid these towers, however as most towers do, I'm sure they have situational uses that I am overlooking.


Machine turrets, hate them, I always try to avoid this tower.

Geomancers/clock, Well don't really use Geomancer much, but clock is a great tank for early games.

Sprites/thunder, eh not really big fan of these units, but thunder can be useful on 20 if you're getting no magic units.

orc warrior/wolv, nothing to say about these guys, like wolv now.

zombies/butcher, zombies can be useful in early game just don't upgrade to a butcher on level 2/3.


alllllllllabal wrote:Yes, AC mode is meant to be harder, but it gets more difficult for slave builds than almost any other build, as you have a much greater chance that at least some of the slave income will be killed, if not all on random levels.


Well he nerfed champions for next version, :evil: lol


alllllllllabal wrote:Not sure, maybe just a small price increase to 475 to deter players from getting a ghost super early?


Ghost
*HeartStopper Aura:
-Damage ticks are now done in 1sec intervals
-Damage from 1%+8 to 1%+6

hahahah, knew he was going to do this :-p but ghost was OP though.

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Re: A few unit prices that I think should be changed around

Postby alllllllllabal » Mon Oct 17, 2016 8:44 pm

Zulthar wrote:
hahahah, knew he was going to do this :-p but ghost was OP though.


what was the interval before?

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Re: A few unit prices that I think should be changed around

Postby HELLRAlSER » Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:54 pm

@alllllllllabal

The interval before was 0.01sec. Now its 1sec. The damage overall its about the same now, but happens in 1sec intervals instead.


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