[DOTA] ban reqeust- pinheadlarry

[ErDaYe]

Replay Link: http://storage.entgaming.net/replay/vie ... 669307.w3g
Game Name: [ENT] DotA apem us/ca #9
Your Warcraft III Username: pewpewsitdown
Violator's Warcraft III Username: pinheadlarry
Violated Rule(s): game ruin/refuse to cooperate with team
Time of Violation (in-game or replay): ill give you a general description of pinheadlarry's play 1st and ill follow with specific timestamps. In general, pinheadlarry alchem player just farmed all game and do not want to actively engage with team. he will either farm lanes or sit in neutrals while the rest of the team is pushing, despite of our request for him to push with team, he ignores team, keep farming. His items are maxed at 32 min of time, however for the remaining 30 min of game, he still just farms and refuse to push with team. The following are specific timestamps that he refused to cooperate:
(34:03 / Allied) Youaredumb: we have
(34:04 / Allied) Youaredumb: alch
(34:04 / Allied) Youaredumb: wow
(34:09 / Allied) Youaredumb: 0 assist at 31 mins
(34:11 / Allied) Youaredumb: lmao
ZERO assists in 32 min of game, that is something right? pretty obvious lack of involvement with team fights.

(52:18 / Allied) LosPrimos: this is dumb
(52:21 / Allied) Youaredumb: he backed
(52:22) eonlam killed Youaredumb
(52:23 / Allied) LosPrimos: alchemist just running around
(52:29 / Allied) LosPrimos: they're just getting kills
(52:33 / Allied) LosPrimos: stop wasting time
we are pushing mid but somehow,alchem went back again and farm creeps/neutrals. Even the enemy team noticed that this alchem just running around not pushing at all.

(56:54 / All) Youaredumb: !timestamp pin refuse to push together and keep farming when he got maxed 31 mins in
lost a push due to alchem not willing to push with us.

(58:09 / All) Youaredumb: !timestamp pin farming jungle while team push
(60:51 / All) Youaredumb: !timestamp alch back to farm bot
(61:57 / All) Youaredumb: !timestamp alch farming bot while we push
(64:42 / All) Youaredumb: !timestamp
(64:49 / All) Youaredumb: !timestamp alch back to farm after killing 2
(65:55 / All) Youaredumb: !timestamp alch stil farming while we taking mid and bot
Any further thoughts: n/a

[pinheadlarry]

Lets play CNN and leave out all the other important facts.

Such as I was 14-1 and that I had more assists than tinker. Lets also leave out the fact I help defend whenever the enemy pushed.

Yes I didn't push with you guys when you "requested", but we had no chance of losing that game. I felt like having a bit of fun that game and farmed for my dagon bird which actually ended up being helpful in a couple of fights. If things had started to look serious in the least, I would have ended immediately. While I was certainly not playing a conventional game, there is no indication that I was throwing or trying to lose.

Last time I checked, there was nothing in the rules that said you can't try unique strats.

[aimskjs]

Lets play CNN and leave out all the other important facts.

Such as I was 14-1 and that I had more assists than tinker. Lets also leave out the fact I help defend whenever the enemy pushed.

Yes I didn't push with you guys when you "requested", but we had no chance of losing that game. I felt like having a bit of fun that game and farmed for my dagon bird which actually ended up being helpful in a couple of fights. .

Congrats, You just confessed and admitted that you refused teamplay. And you were against pa, pl, mag and orge which are very strong in late game. ErDaye stated you are maxed at 32 mins and farmed another 30 mins because you want to have more fun with dagon crow which is very risk to lose against those heros. And more than half of your kills were from after 50 mins.

You better learn to not afk rice after making 6 slots when your team request to join.

[pinheadlarry]

Did you even watch the replay?

I had the perfect counter-build to their heros. Hence why I only died once while being in 3 v 1 situations often (me being the one).

And to say that I did not help team is a lie. As I said, I had 14 assists (more than tinker) and 28 kills+assists (5 more than weaver).

And more than half of your kills were from after 50 mins.

Thanks for highlighting how the OP is dramatizing my farm. Considering that you can verify that I got most of my kills after 50 mins, than that just goes to show how much BS the timestamps of the OP are since they are mostly after the 50min mark. The fact of the matter was two people on my team were impatient and got frustrated when they kept rambo-pushing and having their k/d eroded.

Like I said, our team dominated this game and were at <1% risk of losing. Had we lost that game, this BR might hold some weight. But we didn't and now the OP submitted me because he is salty that he ruined his K/D through impatient rambo-pushes.

[aimskjs]

OK I watched replay now. and your team made time for you to afk rice and let you get maxed 6 slots item at 32mins while other team had only 2 items. That's why your alchemist could kill 3 heros in late game. Erdaye is not requesting ban you not because you are 3-0-0 at 30 mins. He is requesting ban you because you refused to join push several times without response. There is no point to farm more than money for buyback after 6 slots. As you stated before, you farmed more for dagon on crow for fun which can be defined you are trolling. This dumb action gave sentinel time to farm more item and a chance of comeback. You said it was <1% risk of losing. You are wrong. It is em game which mean PL, Mag, Pa and orge can farm without creeping enough to make more item. I wouldn't say its 50% risk but it was more than 30% of chance for sentinel to comeback.

The most important point here is YOU REFUSED TO PUSH WITH TEAM WHEN YOUR TEAM REQEUSTED YOU TO PUSH WITH THEM MULTIPLE TIMES. You had lack of cooperating with you team. You would be fine if nobody asked you to stop farm and join team fight. However, team asked you to join to push lane with team more than 3 times but you didn't response to them and back to farm after killed more than 2 heros which is perfect chance to destroy sentinel's base. You better to join team when they asked.

[Astros]

replay-time:

15:00, he does help top and ends up getting a triple kill. This is probably the only time he ever actually did anything to help his team gain an advantage.

25:00, you should be helping and not farming. You've played enough games to understand when to push, farm, or defend. I

27:55, again, your teammates are pushing bot/top. There is no need for you to continue farming.

33:00, your teammates are STILL pushing trying to end. You are still farming in the jungle. Absolutely no reason for you to continue farming.

36:00, your team is in a fight and you run back to go rosh.

42:00, you are still farming. You could have tried to help pink from dying but it seems you let him die on purpose so you could fight that 2v1 alone and amuse yourself.

43:30, your teammates are pushing while you are still farming.

45:20, your teammates just killed four enemy players and you go back to ancient jungle to continue farming. They end up dying because the enemy team respawns and you're still running around farming.

49:25, your teammates are at bot pushing while you decide to farm.

51:00, your teammates are in a fight but you hide in the shop and refuse to even try to help. They ask if you're going to help push and you don't reply at all.

(52:23 / Allied) LosPrimos: alchemist just running around
(52:29 / Allied) LosPrimos: they're just getting kills
(52:33 / Allied) LosPrimos: stop wasting time

Even the other team knows you're just running around farming and delaying the game.

54:30, PA is literally right in front of you and your team is chasing him. You turn to go farm neutrals but when you see a huge creep wave at mid, you decide to farm creeps instead of initially helping your team kill purple.

(54:53 / Allied) Youaredumb: alch
(54:54 / Allied) Youaredumb: last warn
(54:57 / Allied) Youaredumb: dont back to farm
(54:59) Youaredumb killed sevajbudalo
(55:01 / Allied) Youaredumb: go help team

Kunkka warns you numerous times in the game to help and stop farming.

At 55:30, your team is STILL fighting and pushing mid but you decide you would rather go top to farm.

57:00, you're back farming at jungle for no reason.

58:00, entire team outside of alch is pushing and fighting mid but alch is still at jungle farming.

59:00, instead of helping push, he decides to go rosh for the third time. Achieves nothing.

1:01:30, alch is farming bot while it is obvious his entire team is mid trying to push. Two of his teammates end up dying because they are outnumbered.

1:02:40, instead of helping weaver at top, he goes back to the jungle to farm.

1:05:00, his teammates are trying to push bot. Alch runs back to the jungle to farm.

By the time alch reaches the enemy's base to "help", his teammates have already basically killed all the raxes and ended the game.

To sum this up, pinheadlarry has over 5,600 dota games (is under 900 elo but that here is irrelevant). He's not a new player and so he should understand when he should push, farm, or defend. His teammates shouldn't have to warn him every time they plan on pushing. He's got eyes just like everyone else and enough games under his belt to help his team. 99.99999% of the game, he ends up farming and refuses to help his team. After numerous attempts of his teammates asking nicely and allowing him to farm what he needs, Alchemist continues ignoring them and goes back to farming. This game should have ended at the 35 minute point but because Alch refused to help push and the other team's carries were able to defend the base, it became over an hour game. His reasoning is there isn't any rules about build strategy. While that is true to some extent, there is a rule that you should cooperate with your teammates. In this case, he refused to cooperate with his teammates. Pinheadlarry likes to quote his stats and that his teammates were in no danger of losing but that is irrelevant. For one, your teammates trying to push and end makes it your responsibility to at least try and help them. In many instances, you chose to let your teammates die. My belief is that you did this so you could allow the other team to catch up and so then you could solo them to amuse yourself. Secondly, your teammates are the only reason you were able to even farm as long as you did. Anyone could farm all game and dominate when they have such a huge lead. The point is, your teammates effectively did all your dirty work and all you did was refuse to help them when they asked you numerous times to end despite your max inventory. You're playing DotA with nine other players. It isn't solely about what you want to do. The excuse of "experimenting with items" only works when you're actually helping your team. You weren't. Also, you might want to check the reasoning as to why you are being reported. You aren't being reported for "trying to lose." You are being reported for game-ruining/refusing to cooperate. I feel bad for any mod who has to watch this. What you will see is one team (Scourge) dominating the other team (Sentinel) but because their teammate wants to farm all game to amuse himself, the other team is able to catch up. Alch farming for almost the entirety of the game and refusing to help his teammates is pretty much what this hour game consisted of. The amount of timestamps (not even all of it) I had to add just to show you were farming all game is absurd.

Overall, Pinheadlarry definitely deserves to be banned here. Refused to cooperate all game. He has a documented history of doing this as well and was not banned for it so that might be the reason why he's running around thinking he can do this.

[pinheadlarry]

Well Astros, that is a fantastic amount of conjecture. Are mods normally suppose to be subjective and make unsubstantiated stories/opinion in their head or report on facts?

Opinion 1

. My belief is that you did this so you could allow the other team to catch up and so then you could solo them to amuse yourself.

Wrong my goal was to see how a dagon bird works as a strategy in a pub game. Similar to how syllabear uses a dagon, ebalde, rad bear. From the game it clearly works well. I HELPED my team rack up multiple kills with it. Since it is flying, it was way more agile then syllabear's bear. It was ultimately what won them the last team fight that let them rax. Did you see that or did your confirmation bias prevent that?


Opinion 2

You could have tried to help pink from dying but it seems you let him die on purpose so you could fight that 2v1 alone and amuse yourself.

I wasn't ready to engage. I need chemical rage, lothers and unstable to be ready to jump into a fight and destroy. Alch is all about using that combo.

Now lets move onto untrue facts:

Lie 1

25:00, you should be helping and not farming. You've played enough games to understand when to push, farm, or defend. I

I have played probably 500 alch games. I have his build timeing down. I get can get my unstoppable alch build 6-sloted in 33mins if I get to farm uninterrupted. That is best case scenario. This game I had leave jungle and defend lanes multiple time (as is required by the rules). When that happens it often takes me to 40mins. After that, I am unstoppable with alch and the game is an ez win, which is why we dominated so hard. There is certainly a reason to farm more then 25mins as a rational strategy.

Lie 2

45:20, your teammates just killed four enemy players and you go back to ancient jungle to continue farming. They end up dying because the enemy team respawns and you're still running around farming.

It is called chemical rage cooldown. If you didn't happen to notice, alch has a very interesting ult that my build maximizes. When the 40seconds of rage run out, I am vulnerable and useless.

Lie 3

By the time alch reaches the enemy's base to "help", his teammates have already basically killed all the raxes and ended the game.
The excuse of "experimenting with items" only works when you're actually helping your team.

I used my dagon bird to kill 2 heros. That is helping. It ultimately got them raxes. *Confirmation Bias confirmed*

Lie 4

He has a documented history of doing this as well and was not banned for it so that might be the reason why he's running around thinking he can do this.

Incorrect. I have been banned twice for it as alch. That is when my long farm fails and my team feel hard done by. This was not the case this game and is why in other bans I did not get banned since beerlord actually gets my build and understands just how OP it is.

Lie 5

Pinheadlarry likes to quote his stats and that his teammates were in no danger of losing but that is irrelevant.

How is that possibly irrelevant. The fact that I had a score that shows I had AT LEAST 14 team engagements and is more than other players on my team is ludicrous to call irrelevant. Do you even know what an assist is an how you get one???!?!! I'll give you a hint, YOU MUST HELP YOUR TEAMMATE GET A KILL. Cool hey?



Now lets get to the actual substance.

After numerous attempts of his teammates asking nicely and allowing him to farm what he needs, Alchemist continues ignoring them and goes back to farming.

Excuse me for making a poor reference, but alch is the exodia (yu-gi-oh) of dota. You need every piece to make him an auto win. The sooner you get the pieces, the better since you lock up the win. There was reason to keep farming

Secondly, your teammates are the only reason you were able to even farm as long as you did.

Very true. And I rewarded them with a guaranteed win.

His reasoning is there isn't any rules about build strategy. While that is true to some extent, there is a rule that you should cooperate with your teammates.

Correct, trying new build is legal and I was trying dagon birds as a strategy. That was the WHOLE PREMISE OF MY GAME PLAY. I.E. you just admitted that what I did is legal, but ignored the fact I helped the team with my bird. Why did you overlook that?

And yes, it is a rule to cooperate with your team. But in this ban request, we really trying to argue the semantics of what it means to cooperate. Does it mean be subservient to the democracy of your team? Or does it mean to help you team work towards a common goal (i.e. winning)? And throughout ENTs history the latter has always been what is required for cooperation (other than arguably LTD).


Astros, it is clear you have a vendetta against me from prior games, but if you want to be a mod, you need to be unbiased. You cannot have a confirmation bias and nit-pick the details that help push your agendas. Be fair, look at the big picture from all sides. It is too bad beerlord isn't around anymore to mentor you if you do become a mod. I was going to support your mod application despite our rough past and give you a second chance. However, I cannot support the application anymore.

[aimskjs]

I laughed at pinheadlarry's reply of astro. We just need a mod to teach him what he shouldn't do. He thinks he can try new strategy with dagon on crow with refusing teamplay. Yes you are allow to build any item combination but you should help team not just afk rice with ignoring team.

[Astros]

Well Astros, that is a fantastic amount of conjecture. Are mods normally suppose to be subjective and make unsubstantiated stories/opinion in their head or report on facts?

Opinion 1

. My belief is that you did this so you could allow the other team to catch up and so then you could solo them to amuse yourself.

Wrong my goal was to see how a dagon bird works as a strategy in a pub game. Similar to how syllabear uses a dagon, ebalde, rad bear. From the game it clearly works well. I HELPED my team rack up multiple kills with it. Since it is flying, it was way more agile then syllabear's bear. It was ultimately what won them the last team fight that let them rax. Did you see that or did your confirmation bias prevent that?


Opinion 2

You could have tried to help pink from dying but it seems you let him die on purpose so you could fight that 2v1 alone and amuse yourself.

I wasn't ready to engage. I need chemical rage, lothers and unstable to be ready to jump into a fight and destroy. Alch is all about using that combo.

Now lets move onto untrue facts:

Lie 1

25:00, you should be helping and not farming. You've played enough games to understand when to push, farm, or defend. I

I have played probably 500 alch games. I have his build timeing down. I get can get my unstoppable alch build 6-sloted in 33mins if I get to farm uninterrupted. That is best case scenario. This game I had leave jungle and defend lanes multiple time (as is required by the rules). When that happens it often takes me to 40mins. After that, I am unstoppable with alch and the game is an ez win, which is why we dominated so hard. There is certainly a reason to farm more then 25mins as a rational strategy.

Lie 2

45:20, your teammates just killed four enemy players and you go back to ancient jungle to continue farming. They end up dying because the enemy team respawns and you're still running around farming.

It is called chemical rage cooldown. If you didn't happen to notice, alch has a very interesting ult that my build maximizes. When the 40seconds of rage run out, I am vulnerable and useless.

Lie 3

By the time alch reaches the enemy's base to "help", his teammates have already basically killed all the raxes and ended the game.
The excuse of "experimenting with items" only works when you're actually helping your team.

I used my dagon bird to kill 2 heros. That is helping. It ultimately got them raxes. *Confirmation Bias confirmed*

Lie 4

He has a documented history of doing this as well and was not banned for it so that might be the reason why he's running around thinking he can do this.

Incorrect. I have been banned twice for it as alch. That is when my long farm fails and my team feel hard done by. This was not the case this game and is why in other bans I did not get banned since beerlord actually gets my build and understands just how OP it is.

Lie 5

Pinheadlarry likes to quote his stats and that his teammates were in no danger of losing but that is irrelevant.

How is that possibly irrelevant. The fact that I had a score that shows I had AT LEAST 14 team engagements and is more than other players on my team is ludicrous to call irrelevant. Do you even know what an assist is an how you get one???!?!! I'll give you a hint, YOU MUST HELP YOUR TEAMMATE GET A KILL. Cool hey?



Now lets get to the actual substance.

After numerous attempts of his teammates asking nicely and allowing him to farm what he needs, Alchemist continues ignoring them and goes back to farming.

Excuse me for making a poor reference, but alch is the exodia (yu-gi-oh) of dota. You need every piece to make him an auto win. The sooner you get the pieces, the better since you lock up the win. There was reason to keep farming

Secondly, your teammates are the only reason you were able to even farm as long as you did.

Very true. And I rewarded them with a guaranteed win.

His reasoning is there isn't any rules about build strategy. While that is true to some extent, there is a rule that you should cooperate with your teammates.

Correct, trying new build is legal and I was trying dagon birds as a strategy. That was the WHOLE PREMISE OF MY GAME PLAY. I.E. you just admitted that what I did is legal, but ignored the fact I helped the team with my bird. Why did you overlook that?

And yes, it is a rule to cooperate with your team. But in this ban request, we really trying to argue the semantics of what it means to cooperate. Does it mean be subservient to the democracy of your team? Or does it mean to help you team work towards a common goal (i.e. winning)? And throughout ENTs history the latter has always been what is required for cooperation (other than arguably LTD).


Astros, it is clear you have a vendetta against me from prior games, but if you want to be a mod, you need to be unbiased. You cannot have a confirmation bias and nit-pick the details that help push your agendas. Be fair, look at the big picture from all sides. It is too bad beerlord isn't around anymore to mentor you if you do become a mod. I was going to support your mod application despite our rough past and give you a second chance. However, I cannot support the application anymore.

What vendetta do you think I would possibly have for you? There is no case where I need to be biased or unbiased. Let's speak about what happened and not what your feelings here. In regards to Beerlord, I will have him review this replay and let's see what he thinks. I don't know who you are, care for who you are, nor have a vendetta towards you. Your excuses as to you "guaranteeing" your team a win or your bird helped your win is almost beyond hilarious considering the only help your team needed was for you to quit farming and to help them end the game. I'm also having difficulty understanding why you assume people dislike your item choices when that isn't the case. They had a problem with you refusing to help push. Dude, read the chat. You were warned numerous times by Kunkka and others to help and stop farming. You were given 30 minutes of undisturbed farming until your team finally had enough and wanted the game to end. No one is disputing your item choices. They are disputing the fact that you DID NOT HELP WHEN THEY WERE PUSHING. That much is evident and cannot be disputed. Thirdly, there is no ambiguity about what the word cooperate means. If four of your teammates are pushing, you help them. You don't run opposite of the map and continue farming so you can build two bloodstones/ethereal/dagon on a crow and then claim you are trying to "guarantee" them a win or that you were experimenting a strategy. Your Yu-Gi-Oh analogy is absolutely ridiculous. Again, Alchemist does not need two bloodstones, ethereal, and dagon on a crow. Your crow was more farmed than some players on the enemy team. Lastly, your assists and kills were irrelevant. Assists and kills don't mean anything if you're ksing or because you land an acid. In a team fight, acid could theoretically land you five assists or kills in a teamfight. I'm having difficulty understanding why you assume your stats indicate how well you played. It doesn't. I would rather have someone going 0-7-20 but they ward, support their teammates, and actually cooperate with their teammates than someone who is looking to preserve their stats and go 14-2-10 and think they "carried" their team. There was nothing spectacular about your game nor was it an ideal gameplay strategy. Instead of acknowledging that you won't do it again and got carried away with trying to have fun, you choose to make invalid excuses. I will ask @beerlord to review this but I don't know how anyone can watch this replay and think you shouldn't be banned.

[Merex]

Should be fairly clear in 6,000+ games that you
don't conduct your own solo/careless play in a 5v5 team-based
match.

This will mark 4th offense overall towards similar actions in
the past.

Banned until the 20th.