[DOTA] !VOTEKlCK, Agreement, everyone else] VK abuse

UltraKill · Postby **UltraKill** » Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:07 pm

Replay Link: http://storage.entgaming.net/replay/vie ... 709859.w3g
Game Name: [ENT] DotA apem us/ca #16
Your Warcraft III Username: masterkiller
Violator's Warcraft III Username: !VOTEKlCK, Agreement, everyone else (except pay)
Violated Rule(s): vk abuse
Time of Violation (in-game or replay): (31:36 / All) Agreement: !votekick master
(there were multiple votekicks before, but this is the one where they lied that I sold/destroyed items and it passed)
Any further thoughts: I got kicked for itemselling, but I didnt sell a single item. In fact I'm the only one who was buying wards in my team. My teammates (!VOTEKlCK and Agreement) lied to enemy team that I was itemselling. Please watch the replay and see that I didnt sell a single item, they were saying that I sold boots - even if I did, is it a reason to kick if someone sold boots? I never even had boots in that game. I was also participating in team fights and helped get a bunch of kills to my allies. Please take urgent action and give hard punishment to !VOTEKlCK and Agreement. I think the rest of my team also deserves hard punishment - they could see that I didnt sell anything and still voted: TheSilentPirate and GetFit (last one didnt even know the reason for votekick, but still voted: (32:09 / Allied) GetFit: why? (32:16 / Allied) GetFit: dont get it (32:20 / Allied) GetFit: !yes). I think enemy team also deservers hard punishment, because they voted without any proof, without asking me any questions, and I even told them that itemselling is a lie: (32:12 / All) PucziPuczi: They said u destroyed items (32:15 / All) masterkiller: what (32:16 / All) masterkiller: lies). They only one who didn't vote was player 'pay'.

pretty much the timeline of how it went:

(28:37 / Allied) !VOTEKlCK: ?
(28:38 / Allied) !VOTEKlCK: this furion
(28:40 / Allied) !VOTEKlCK: sold boots
(28:54 / All) !VOTEKlCK: !timestamp furion sold boots
(28:58 / All) Agreement: !votekick master
(28:59 / All) Agreement: kick this pls
(29:06 / All) !VOTEKlCK: !yes
(29:06 / All) masterkiller: Player [!VOTEKlCK] voted to kick player [masterkiller]. 6 more votes are needed to pass.
(29:58 / All) Agreement: kick or i post for feeding
(30:07 / All) !VOTEKlCK: sold item
(30:10 / All) !VOTEKlCK: and tp to 3 heros
(30:20 / All) Agreement: and ill post failure to votekick
(30:24 / All) Agreement: so that 3 day ban there
(30:50 / All) PucziPuczi: are you retarded
(30:54 / All) PucziPuczi: hes trying to kill me
(30:56 / All) PucziPuczi: he didnt just suicide
(31:01 / All) !VOTEKlCK: kill 1 and die
(31:03 / All) !VOTEKlCK: worth?
(31:10 / All) PucziPuczi: who cares? its not reason to kick
(31:22 / All) Agreement: lmao he selling items is a reason
(31:24 / All) !VOTEKlCK: how about
(31:25 / All) Agreement: to dagon 5
(31:26 / All) !VOTEKlCK: selling item?
(31:26 / All) Agreement: suicide
(31:28 / All) GodSaveTheQQs: if he slod his items its a reason
(31:32 / All) GodSaveTheQQs: sold*
(31:36 / All) PucziPuczi: yes, thats reason to kick
(31:36 / All) Agreement: !votekick master
(31:36 / All) masterkiller: A votekick against player [masterkiller] has been started by player [Agreement]. 7 votes are needed within 60 seconds to pass.
(31:39 / Allied) PucziPuczi: !yes
(31:41 / Allied) TheSilentPirate: !yes
(31:41 / Allied) GodSaveTheQQs: !yes
(31:45 / All) !VOTEKlCK: !yes
(31:48 / Allied) xxxZIONxxx: !yes
(31:51 / Allied) jetencule: !yes
(31:57 / All) GodSaveTheQQs: 1 more
(31:58 / All) masterkiller: you all getting posted
(32:12 / All) PucziPuczi: They said u destroyed items
(32:16 / All) masterkiller: lies
(32:20 / Allied) GetFit: !yes
(32:20 / All) masterkiller: A votekick against player [masterkiller] has passed.
(32:20 / All) masterkiller: masterkiller was kicked by vote.

Also after I got kicked - they continued lieing to the enemy team:
(32:35 / All) GodSaveTheQQs: He said you flame him
(32:40 / All) !VOTEKlCK: ?
(32:41 / All) !VOTEKlCK: nobody
(32:43 / All) GodSaveTheQQs: The leaver
(32:49 / All) !VOTEKlCK: u remember he ksed at ur t2 mid tower
(32:53 / All) !VOTEKlCK: i ulti and stun potm
(32:53 / All) GodSaveTheQQs: said to us that you were insulting him
(32:55 / All) !VOTEKlCK: and he just sit
(32:57 / All) !VOTEKlCK: and dagon
(32:58 / All) !VOTEKlCK: i told him
(33:01 / All) !VOTEKlCK: if u do it again
(33:04 / All) !VOTEKlCK: i wil get dagon
(33:06 / All) !VOTEKlCK: and the ignored us
(33:10 / All) !VOTEKlCK: and then sold item (*they were still trying to push the reasoning behind kick as itemselling*)
(33:15 / All) !VOTEKlCK: make sense?
(33:18 / All) GodSaveTheQQs: y
(33:23 / Allied) GodSaveTheQQs: i can understand
(33:33 / All) GodSaveTheQQs: i know what you mean
(33:48 / All) !VOTEKlCK: he is vaylen one of most troll player in ent

They !ff the game shortly after, making me lose ELO against my will.

nitromon · Postby **nitromon** » Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:53 am

I wasn't in this game, but it got me interested b/c I know this Furion and I know he doesn't play with boots. I'm completely dumbfounded as to why they kicked Furion since he actually played quite brilliantly in this game.

I suspect with pink it has to do with 16 min game (19 chat):
(18:59 / Allied) !VOTEKlCK: ?
(19:01 / Allied) !VOTEKlCK: if u do it again
(19:04 / Allied) !VOTEKlCK: i will make dagon

First of all, this was NOT a KS. 2ndly, even if it was, KS are not kickable. This is 16 min in the game, if Furion wanted to KS with a dagon he would have already many times. At game time 9:23, Furion got dagon and used it the first time during a gank. He used it immediately not waiting to KS. In the 16 min "gank" he used it immediately when pink stunned/ulted. The enemy was simply too weak. Pretty dick move by pink when Furion saved his ass at 2:18 game time.

(28:38 / Allied) !VOTEKlCK: this furion
(28:40 / Allied) !VOTEKlCK: sold boots
(28:54 / All) !VOTEKlCK: !timestamp furion sold boots

This Furion doesn't play with boots, he didn't sell anything. Even if he did, it is not kickable. Selling items only kickable when for the purpose of ruining.

Straight out votekick abuse:
(28:58 / All) Agreement: !votekick master
(31:36 / All) Agreement: !votekick master

I think both DG (Agreement) and pink (!VOTEKlCK) deserve to be banned here for at least votekick abuse, but maybe more such as lying to get someone kicked, toxic flaming, griefing, maybe even lying about rules.

However, I usually defend the voters especially in this case b/c they couldn't see what was going on to verify and also recent events in the ban/appeal section where whole team were banned for not vking (I warned about this to the staff this would happen).

I believe it would be unfair to ban any of the voters b/c they were threatened:

Spoiler!

Excessive Flame:

Spoiler!

Lying to kick and lying about rules:

Spoiler!

General Griefing:

Spoiler!

Summary:
Furion played a well played global controller. He was warding, scouting, ganking. I don't particularly agree with not getting a boot, but whatever works, he obviously wasn't trolling this game and played quite well.

!VOTEKlCK - Should be banned for votekick abuse, lying about rules, lying to get teammates kicked
Agreement - Should be banned for initiating votekick abuse, lying about rules, lying to get teammates kicked, excessive flaming, griefing

kunkka · Postby **kunkka** » Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:30 pm

GG warriors - even tho you might get banned, good job kicking!

Btw, no kdr this game

Credits · Postby **Credits** » Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:31 pm

Actually I am Agreement on smurf account this wasn't votekick abuse due to you intentionally teleporting vs 3 people trying to dagon kill and suicide.. you did this all game therefor the team wanted to votekick you so try again please thank. no one lyed about rules, it was simple stated that you can get banned for ruining so clearly watch the replay fully before making comments. he ruined the whole game if u watched it clearly through and no one flamed him.

nitromon · Postby **nitromon** » Fri Apr 12, 2019 10:37 pm

Credits wrote:Actually I am Agreement on smurf account this wasn't votekick abuse due to you intentionally teleporting vs 3 people trying to dagon kill and suicide..

This occurred "after" the votekick abuse, so it doesn't even apply. Also he is a typical furion with dagon/lothar trying to get a strike on a weak hero and getting away with it. Enemy had dust and he was countered. Also, even if it is a bad play, it was 1 bad play, hardly indicative of a pattern.

you did this all game therefor the team wanted to votekick you so try again please thank.

You were the only one who initiated votekick and twice. You did so after pink said he sold boots. You were so eager to believe pink you actually got trolled. The chat would indicate other people voted b/c you threatened them, which is also a bannable offense.

I honestly cannot find any reason why you would single out this Furion other than you knew him from before or more likely you were griefing. You trashtalked pretty much every player on your own team. Pink just gave you a bait to votekick Furion and you took it. But you would've kicked any other player on your team given the chance b/c you were already griefing at your first "!ff" mark and anxious to ruin and end this game.

no one lyed about rules, it was simple stated that you can get banned for ruining so clearly watch the replay fully before making comments.

Clearly you did and you are lying now. You cannot votekick someone b/c of KS, b/c they sold a boot (even though he didn't), or making a bad play. You cannot threaten people into votekick.

he ruined the whole game if u watched it clearly through and no one flamed him.

You are the only player who was ruining this game. And I already quoted your flames. So again you are lying.

Thank you for posting your comments. It is indicative to the mods you are unrepentant even when caught red-handed. I can only expect the same attitude in your appeal. ~~I recommend the mods extend your ban duration on this thread b/c of your attitude.~~ I recommend the mods consider your attitude both in the game and your forum reply when considering your ban.

------

This Furion has been on my banlist for the longest time. I am no friend of his. I avoid his games unless he is on the other team. However, last time he was in the BRQ, he was cleared by the mods. (viewtopic.php?f=24&t=138756&p=536290&hilit=ultrakill#p536257) So I gave him another chance a couple of times to play on his team. As far as I know, he has cleaned up his act and not doing trollish things and he was actually pleasant to play with. This is the very reason I watched this replay, to catch him going "back" on his old ways. I did not find any and found he actually played well.

But players like you need to be banned. Threatening other players to votekick is a big violation. You essentially put them at the risk of being banned themselves for abusing the votekick and despite my defense for them, the mods may still ban them.

~~You need a month ban at least.~~ You need a maximum ban for each infraction considering your overall attitude.

This is the last time I will post on this matter.

UltraKill · Postby **UltraKill** » Sat Apr 13, 2019 5:58 am

Credits wrote:Actually I am Agreement on smurf account this wasn't votekick abuse due to you intentionally teleporting vs 3 people trying to dagon kill and suicide.. you did this all game therefor the team wanted to votekick you so try again please thank. no one lyed about rules, it was simple stated that you can get banned for ruining so clearly watch the replay fully before making comments. he ruined the whole game if u watched it clearly through and no one flamed him.

its funny how your most active forum is "ban appeals"

Credits · Postby **Credits** » Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:00 pm

UltraKill wrote:
Credits wrote:Actually I am Agreement on smurf account this wasn't votekick abuse due to you intentionally teleporting vs 3 people trying to dagon kill and suicide.. you did this all game therefor the team wanted to votekick you so try again please thank. no one lyed about rules, it was simple stated that you can get banned for ruining so clearly watch the replay fully before making comments. he ruined the whole game if u watched it clearly through and no one flamed him.

its funny how your most active forum is "ban appeals"

its funny most my ban appaels are disconnects or server issues maybe 1 or 2 from flame in game so try again

if I added all my accounts and stats together I would have probably 1300+ elo and 90% win ratio, I smurf a lot because games are always stacked idc about record or stats I like to play

raedric · Postby **raedric** » Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:33 pm

I agree with OP on review of the game. Nothing Furi did was ban-worthy, even if people could find it irritating. I wouldn't recommend banning any but the initial two offenders as listed above. Excessive flame should also be taken into account.
To those agreeing with the OP in chat: please stop trying to get mods to extend bans because of your personal bias. Lines like "Thank you for posting your comments. It is indicative to the mods you are unrepentant even when caught red-handed. I can only expect the same attitude in your appeal. I recommend the mods extend your ban duration on this thread b/c of your attitude." are borderline putting words in their mouth, and their response should be based on the offenses shown in the OP.

Tl;dr: I agree on the initial ban premise and the rest of this thread should be disregarded

kunkka · Postby **kunkka** » Sat Apr 13, 2019 4:04 pm

raedric wrote:To those agreeing with the OP in chat: please stop trying to get mods to extend bans because of your personal bias. Lines like "Thank you for posting your comments. It is indicative to the mods you are unrepentant even when caught red-handed. I can only expect the same attitude in your appeal. I recommend the mods extend your ban duration on this thread b/c of your attitude." are borderline putting words in their mouth, and their response should be based on the offenses shown in the OP.

Also this:
“You need a month ban at least.”

A month ban for vk abuse. Dude has no judgement at all.

nitromon · Postby **nitromon** » Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:22 pm

raedric wrote:To those agreeing with the OP in chat: please stop trying to get mods to extend bans because of your personal bias

I said I won't post anymore regarding the OP's matter. But I will reply to yours as it is a separate topic.

I have observed that though there is a general guideline which mods follow for ban durations, they do actually have a level of leeway concerning the severity of the ban in certain circumstances. It is not as much to ask for an "increase" of the ban, but requesting "no leniency" in the matter. I know I use the term "extend," (perhaps not a good word choice) but I meant simply do not let any of the infractions slide. Mods here tend to be more lenient than other DOTA sites I've been to.

Aside from general leniency in some BRQs, there have been instances of BRQs where the accused came in and apologized, accepting their wrong, in which their ban duration were reduced immediately without the need of appeal. In instances like this, the point is to ask for maximum penalty which includes all the violations mentioned and if the violator has priors, yes it can be quite hefty. (Perhaps not 1 month hefty, but I exaggerate for effect)

Bans are often reflected purely on "behavior" while the leeway of severity is based on motive. In this case, I am drawing out the motive of the accused rather than simply the behavior of the rules violated. (Hence why it came after his reply indicating his attitude is not just in the game) In such case, I believe he should receive maximum penalty for "each" infraction. Either way, mods will eventually make up their own minds. I'm merely offering input as someone who has watched the replay.

If you've read my previous reply and the link I provided. You would know my comment is completely unbiased. I am not a friend of the OP nor am I defending him personally. I'm sure most people who knew my attitude towards the OP is surprised that I am supporting his BRQ. I support what is right. I also have absolutely no idea who the violator DG is to have any bias against him.

I do know who pink is, but I actually like him a lot. I played with him many times and he is typically a very cool player. In fact, he's one of the few players I respect b/c he doesn't stack. He doesn't judge players base on their stats. I have played with him often. So as you can see, bias would be to support pink against the BRQ. But I support what is right.

In fact, as mentioned before, when I chose to watch this replay, my motive was actually to vindicate pink and catch the OP in going back to his trolling ways. I was surprised the replay showed a very different outcome.

Thank you for your input, but perhaps you should check your own bias before accusing others.

Edgeofchaos · Postby **Edgeofchaos** » Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:23 pm

Credits wrote:...if I added all my accounts and stats together...

If I add two 1000 elo accounts together, can I make a 2000 elo account?

Bans for votekick abuse will probably be a few days at most for first offense.

Also playing with this furion is a miserable experience, though he doesn't technically violate the rules. I understand learning, but you've done this build hundreds of times and you should know it doesn't work the way you play it by now. I can absolutely understand why a team would feel like voting him out.

lex- · Postby **lex-** » Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:26 am

Locked

Astros · Postby **Astros** » Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:28 am

!votekick and agreement banned 3 days each for VK abuse.

everyone else (except pay) banned 2 days for VK abuse. Simply selling boots isn't evidence of malicious game-ruining and though Furion does recklessly TP and ends up dying, it hardly constitutes as suiciding. Other team miscalculated what the actual issue was and simply kicked without evidence other than the testimony of !votekick and agreement.

@Edgeofchaos

I've tried to get people like the OP banned for quite some time but it never gains any traction. Any competent DotA player would vote unanimously to ban such a "strategy" but it seems the general consensus from ENT from a gaming perspective is you let players do their own strategy and as long as they know how to caress around the rules, there isn't much that can be done. Also, you asked why he does what he does. It's simple. Players like him aren't trying to win, period. Furion easily ruined the game for his team from the perspective that he did nothing useful other than buying a few wards. His build is reliant on his teammates doing the dirty work, him popping up for the dagon kill, and then ends up dying because there is nothing he can do once he uses up his dagon. Puts his teammates at a huge disadvantage and he knows that. Sadly, he doesn't care and I don't see the rule on this changing anytime soon. There is no learning for him. He knows it's a bad strategy but he can't resist because it's what he does best.

[DOTA] !VOTEKlCK, Agreement, everyone else] VK abuse

[DOTA] !VOTEKlCK, Agreement, everyone else] VK abuse

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