titan balancing

[Lynx]

Win rates of titans


Voltron: Give more evasion and armor
Glacious: Unique should be a passive aura around him.
Bubonicus: People don't know how to play him
Sypherious: Enable water minions to be learnt at level 1
Demonicus: People don't know how to play him
Terminus: Reduce cast time on bolder toss (giff tree)
Pseudologos: fine
Lucidious: fine
Moltenious: Decrease movement speed of phoenix

[ShadowZz]

Volt - To be honest before messing with things that can huge buff a titan like evasion/armor, I'd rather Voltron be amended by the things that I think make him a bad titan. I play him quite a bit and he used to be my favorite titan (now Demonicus is) but things like his 20second ww really let him down and his unique being "reveal invis'" basically which can help with 1-2 kills in a game but I find I have pearl in those circumstances anyway. I'd start by buffing his ww and changing his cast-able unique.

Glac - That would be really overpowered for Glacious due to basically every unit without a speedboost being screwed if they get anywhere near him, same with rewalling.

Bubo - Give people time with bubo and they will learn him eventually, most people have had years to learn the other titans.

Syph - Sypherious is pretty fine right now, he's basically sitting in the middle of the statistics for all titans which is fine.

Demo - This is an interesting one, I feel like Demo has suffered so much in the last version due to the worker exp feed decrease because you basically lone level him off workers. So yeah he's boned lol.

Terminus - Same as Syph.

Pseudologos - Personally hate Pseudo being in the game at all, I don't think it's balanced and there is no way of balancing him, like, at all. But eh.

Luci - Slighty reduce cd of his pearl, slightly reduce radius in turn.

Molt - Phoenix just got nerfed, we should all wait for further stats on latest versions to see if it made any difference.

[Neco]

I removed all picked Titans to take away the stacking one Titan factor. Might be useful (0104 data).

[Lynx]

Voltron - whatever sure

Glacious - he would still have shit nuke and shit minion assistance

Bubonicus - yes

Sypherious - Useless unique if you can only level it at mid to late game, but w/e

Demonicus -

Terminus - giff tree

Pseudologos - yup, he ruins every aspect of uniqueness possible for other titans too since skills needs to be adjusted for him

Lucidious - w/e

Moltenious - 687 games is a big enough sample

[FollowingPath]

Syph - Sypherious is pretty fine right now, he's basically sitting in the middle of the statistics for all titans which is fine.

His nuke at level 1 is garbage. The range is so low that most nukeable lumberbases only give him 1 worker, if any at all. If a builder isn't slowed beforehand, the low range + cast time means they can almost walk in a straight line and still dodge the nuke. In my opinion all 3 levels should be at his max range.

[ShadowZz]

@Neco Can you do me a favor - Can you post the values of Syph's nuke range per level here please (I know I can access it, I just can't remember where it is (lol))?

Ignoring the other titans for now:

Glacious - I agree with the minions being worse, I don't know exactly why but they always feel like their heal is just useless when sieging, maybe it's because it's aoe instead of bounce (idk). It should be looked into. His nuke is fine at the moment and it's good to keep unique nukes in the game unless they become a huge problem.

Sypherious - I actually think there's a few ways you can go about this one. You could make the minions a lot tankier because I know that a lot of people who play Syph consistently just force spawn them into the base when sieging and they kill maybe 2 mega towers before dying. I think it becomes more of a "noone uses them properly" rather than them actually being bad. Having them early game is a problem because it's basically free scouting and they can scout like half the map solo.

Pseudologos - Glad we agree on something

Moltenious - Don't get me wrong, I still think there's other stuff that needs to be changed with Molt but heavy nerfing him for multiple versions will basically turn him into dog shit. It's better to give him a small nerf like the phoenix one in the last few weeks and then wait a month or so until you do another. Gives time for him to adjust and helps with not corrupting data or taking the nerfs "too far". I also think that there's other problems regarding the Molt data. Like top tier titans only picking Molt every game and Molt being the most played titan which implies the people picking him know how to play him whereas titans like bubo/demo have the opposite problem. To be honest I'd still expect him to have the highest win rate of the titans just based off of that even if he was completely on par with other titans. That's not to say he doesn't need nerfs right now though.

[Burn]

The phoenix nerf wasn't even that big. Molt is still top tier titan, by far still my favourite titan.

For inhouses, maybe terminus (although I've never played the titan, he seems like he'd be an OP titan in inhouses).

-Burn

[ShadowZz]

@Burn Can you do me a favor and list the reasons why you pick Molt?

Purely for analysis and comparing the benefits you have with him along with the differences between him and other titans. I'm assuming one reason might be that you're more familiar with him and feel more comfortable playing him?

[Burn]

Moltenious is OP in pubs and inhouses. If Terminus had better minion nukes, Terminus would be top dawg.

Nutshell:
1) Best nuke for minion killing
2) Top tier mana/farm efficiency (phoenix + nuke - 300 mana cost) - AoE nukes/Terminus sentry stone may be debatably better
- Also can nuke twice with full vision, no mana cost waste if you miss like blind AoE nukes
3) Top tier chain heals (second only to Demonicus)
4) Top tier Main heal (Second only to Terminus)
5) Top tier scouting (Second only to Lucidious/Sypherious) - But I use builder kills and mh potion for most scout anyway.
6) Top tier coolness. The coolness is so much that the titan is flaming.

More in-depth and my general play-style with Molt:

I'm actually most comfortable playing the easier titans, such as Luci(pearl to win)/Demonicus(Night to win)/Bubonicus(Bloodlust2Win) but Moltenious is the most fun to play, and probably give the highest win rate when played right. If you want to master Moltenious, you have to abuse the shit out of the scout bird to get double nukes every bird, either twice on a base, or once on base, one in seed. It used to be you could nuke once at base, nuke once in seed, nuke once in another seed. Every nuke, different player, for the most EXP gained.

No other top tier titan has such farm efficiency. The idea behind Molt. is you get a magic coral and a replenish potion(something i rarely use, and just save for life essence anyway) and just farm ur face off until you walk through a base without needing to prevent re-walling, unless there isn't any feed left. A fun thing I do in pubs is I like to siege with like a lvl 4 or 5 Molt. and try to win with just life essence. Life essence is essential for minion mana sustain, both for heals and nukes. For some reason, I seem to fuck around even more in inhouses, sometimes buying energy rod, fog gen, etc.

Also, back on topic: Bubonicus is actually legit.

His major downside is fuckers killing the corpse wards though, so Merch summons (don't let builders get 45g), demo, flying hunters, swimming hunters, ranged hunters runing around, etc.

-Burn

[ShadowZz]

Just looking over those reasons. Guessing you already know most of this but just gonna post for clarity anyway.

1) Agreed, not the only titan with this obviously, Luci etc so I wouldn't put that on the list of why he's considered the best.
2) Again Luci can use his unique pearl for the same result, demo can use shade (if you play him properly), others too, doesn't seem a cause for concern with the recent phoenix nerf either.
3) Pretty sure (almost 100% sure) he has the exact same chain heals as luci, syph, volt, few others.
4) Again, his main heals the same as others. @Neco Can you confirm this 3 and 4?

I feel like Molt just seems to suit your play style to be honest (minion hunting, fast wins etc, sieging through minion heal superiority etc). I don't think any of those are what makes him "OP" as such. I don't know, I'm just trying to figure out why he is considered so good when realistically it just seems like people just enjoy playing him and end up learning him more.

From what I've seen watching good titans play him it seems to be a combination of his unique burning buildings as he sieges and having minion nuke superiority so they can't rewall or repair lower hp walls that got burned. I don't know right now though. Hmmmmmm.

[FollowingPath]

I play him because of his unique. And correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't his armor growth higher than that of other titans?

[ShadowZz]

That seems to go towards confirming my suspicions and no I'm sure isn't higher.

[BeeKauzh]

Molt's main selling point for me is the phoenix. Best scouting IMO.

-I think it's superior to Demo's shade because I find flying better than invisibility.
-I also think it's superior to Luci's island vision because it can scout in a straight line instead of a big circle. I usually have a pearl for that.
-Syph's real scout is his unique, unlocked later in the game.
-Voltron has no scout.
-Bub's scout is a ward put ontop of where you are which grant very litle vision.
-Glac's scout is a random pearl. No thx.
-Terminus has no scout. Has a free Floating eye with True sight that can't move though, that's also good.


Molt is also a sexy firelord.

@shadowzz here's syph nuke. https://id.rory.io/indicina/view/2/ability/TSAQ

Spoiler!

Level 1 - Sends a wave out in a cone shape with a range of 400, and maximum radius of 240, that deals 130 damage to units caught inside.
Level 2 - Sends a wave out in a cone shape with a range of 450, and maximum radius of 240, that deals 155 damage to units caught inside.
Level 3 - Sends a wave out in a cone shape with a range of 500, and maximum radius of 240, that deals 180 damage to units caught inside.

[ShadowZz]

Thanks for the link @Beekauzh but the spoiler you wrote is incorrect. Meaning the tooltip in-game is also incorrect.

@Neco Ironically I just checked and the in-game tool-tip for learning the ability is incorrect using old values but the actual ability tootips per level are correct.
Feel free to just copy and paste this to fix:

Spoiler!

(Q) Learn Crushing Wave - [Level %d]

[Nuke]

The Titan releases a torrent of water upon the selected area, damaging all units hit by the wave.
There's no surfing this wave.

Level 1 - Sends a wave out in a cone shape with a range of 500, and maximum radius of 240, that deals 130 damage to units caught inside.
Level 2 - Sends a wave out in a cone shape with a range of 550, and maximum radius of 240, that deals 155 damage to units caught inside.
Level 3 - Sends a wave out in a cone shape with a range of 600, and maximum radius of 240, that deals 180 damage to units caught inside.

Point-Targeted - 10 second cooldown.

Here's the values as per the code from that page (guessing the tooltip is just out-of-date):
Level 1 Nuke - Cast Range (aran) 500
Level 2 Nuke - Cast Range (aran) 550
Level 3 Nuke - Cast Range (aran) 600

500 range is around 6-7 units so I don't see that not reaching over a base to nuke workers however this might need to be verified (I've never had issues with it either).

Whilst I agree Molt's may be the best scouting ability (maybe not because Luci pearl on average shows 3-5 bases where as phoenix now scouts 3-4 max in a 20 second duration, not sure though) I don't think that alone can be the reason for molt having the highest win rate or being perceived as an "OP" titan. Which brings me back to the previous points of more experience and maybe his unique. Not sure though.

[Neco]

@ShadowZz @FollowingPath Syph's nuke has always been short on other Titans, so I'm sure some tweaks can be made.
@ShadowZz The tooltip values for Syph's nuke were changed to reflect the maximum distance, rather than the center of the circle in the cone (the actual values have stayed the same since the buff a few major versions ago). Cast range on the ability on the site has to do with the range that Syph moves in to before casting the ability (the actual ability and ranges are triggered, and can be found here).

Here's an infographic to show the ranges (128 is the size of a normal 2x2 wall by the way):


@ShadowZz @Burn Molt's heal is currently the same as Sypherious', and his minion's heal are the exact same as all other bounce-heals.