titan balancing

[BeeKauzh]

I've just done a 15 minute in-game comparison of Molt's and Luci's scouting and here are my results:

-Molt is able to reveal the existance of more lumber bases. Usually 4 or 5. (5-6 prior to nerf)
By this I mean simply looking if theres a wall at the commonly used walling spot or scout the trees where the workers are and move on to the next lb.
The non try-hard way usually reveals the same as Luci. (4-5 prior nerf)

-Luci is able to reveal everything in fewer lumber bases. Usually 3.
Island vision reveals the same radius as the pearl you buy so the same logic applies.
Whole top left corner can be revealed.
Pearling inbetween all bot left lbs can reveal the existance of more lumber bases using Molt's logic.

[Burn]

Firstly, some of you misread what I meant by "best" and "top tier". Best means it is the best nuke in the game, shared by luci/syph (minis) and molt.

Top tier means it is one of the best, if not the best (debatable).

Secondly, @ShadowZz didn't realise the OPness of scout bird and why it is better than all the other titans. I explained it enough in my previous post, so I won't reiterate.

Thirdly, this quote really seems out-of-touch when you haven't disagreed with any of my points: "I feel like Molt just seems to suit your play style to be honest (minion hunting, fast wins etc, sieging through minion heal superiority etc). I don't think any of those are what makes him "OP" as such. I don't know, I'm just trying to figure out why he is considered so good when realistically it just seems like people just enjoy playing him and end up learning him more."

Do you not see when every single aspect of the titan is top tier or the "best", makes a titan OP? In order not to spam the thread, this will be my last post to you, ShadowZz, because I don't think it's even possible to change your opinion and I've explained enough already.

Imo, Moltenious' unique passive is not good, unless you aren't sieging and just farming walls mid and is going to re-skill. Most games I don't skill the unique since I end before I can get high enough, like lvl 8 or something, unless I leveled nuke early to lvl 2 or 3 because I needed mini kill. Or, you're lvl 8+ and you have max heal.

-Burn

[ShadowZz]

I wasn't necessarily disagreeing with you burn, I purely posted most of it as stated for clarity to whom ever reads/comments on this thread, it's the first thing I said.

What I was saying is that a titan like Luci shares the same heal, same minions, the same equivelant (debatable) scout and the only distinct difference between him and Molt being the unique, passive and the amount people play them. Yet, he has a lower win rate. That's the point I was getting at...

[Lynx]

Molt's scout is a lot better than Luci's since you can move it and scout smart. Molt's unique is also better than Luci's. Other than that they are very much the same and that is why they are similar in win rate. There is barely any difference in playstyle between the titans so argument that people have learnt moltenious isn't any good.

[Burn]

Also, most pub stompers are spamming Molt, not Luci - which brings the win rate up, albeit the size.

-Burn

[Neco]

Also, most pub stompers are spamming Molt, not Luci - which brings the win rate up, albeit the size.

-Burn

Which is why I posted random-only stats so it would be easy to see the difference.

[wastedlandering]

This is my short post:

Molt has an extremely OP scouting abiltiy, like Beek said: it lasts for a long time, it can fly (so it can see many potential bases, 4-5 according to him), can see invis, it is invulnerable (why?), and is free. Compare that to Demonicus (who no one thinks is op), who has a land-based scout, who can see invis, but can be killed, and (I'm pretty sure, although I could -definitely- be wrong here) the duration is less then bird, and moves slower. Basically, demo and molt have the same scout, except molt is flying and invuln. I don't see why this makes sense at all, and I think that molt having the best overall skills in the game (the best nuke style, best heal, best WW (i.e. 60s)) should be disadvantaged in his scouting.

Although I would prefer other titans to get buffed
glac minis = useless as fuck, maybe give them rejuv group heals instead of direct group heals? Their nukes suck dick anyways, why not give them an op heal?
bubs = put more hp on corpse wards, so dog squad doesn't completely negate any endgame sieging ability this titan has.
Terminus = increase mini nuke range. I think if you have garbage nukes like volt/term minis, you should get a pretty solid nuke range advantage (like, maybe enough to actually be threatening?)
Voltron = Man, how hasn't this guy been fucked? Most other titans not labeld (Easy) have at least one major downside. This guy, is the epitome of shit, and has been for way too long. How has chain lightning not been made this guys nuke? He has a 20 second WW (arbitrary), 6 percent evasion (whoopieeee? who cares, it doesn't matter til late game, which you never reach, oh and AOF is the most op item, so they don't exactly compliment each other as far as I know), a heal that can't heal minis and has a huge delay, and a scouting abilty that doesn't.. scout... it reveals invis. I would be ok with like, a pearl on top of yourself that ALSO applies the debuff to reveal invis. But honestly, poor voltron. How did he get put in the trash like that?

This is off the top of my head. But Titans are ridiculously unbalanced compared to each other; and it is not because of a skill cap, it's because of skill design.

Edit: Typo, clarification

[Neco]

@wastedlandering in the current version, Molt's scout lasts 20s where Demonicus' lasts 30s. It was pretty weird to have a weaker version hence the nerf to bring it more in line.

I agree, Titans have been a weird mixed bunch for so long now. It's nice that everything (except Breeze and Foss of course, but 2 isn't too much) is now in place to improve and refine them!

[wastedlandering]

OK, I wasn't sure on that point

Agree 100%, now that 4.0 framework is in place, we can tweak titans the way we want (from what I understand, this was a major point of switching to 4.0, was to have the basic programming of the game improved). Potentially massive game play improvements are in the future (and being seen now!). It is just a matter of having topics like these where we talk about it, realize the inherited imbalances from ancestral ID, and making the game we actually want.

TL;DR buff volt (poor fucker)

[Burn]

Agreed with Wastedlandering 100%.

Want to put a huge emphasis on the corpse ward buffs, demonologist completely destroys bubonicus corpse wards.

-Burn

[ShadowZz]

Yeah I agree too, corpse wards needs a significant buff.

Could also be fun to be able to upgrade corpse wards so they are invun and last forever in exchange for gold (just a thought). Would be interesting for his play style.

As for Voltron, personally I would buff his ww duration, change his scout to something useful and buff/change his unique. His nuke is fine and his passive, heal and ulti are too. He just lacks in areas where other titans excel.