Builder Concept: Human

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Remixer
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Re: Builder Concept: Human

Postby Remixer » Wed Jul 27, 2016 12:04 pm

Burn wrote:2) Attack animations

I once tried to do a DPS chart of towers, but I was put off by attack animations. @Neco told me later that attack animations only affects the initial DPS, maybe he can confirm that for us. However, I am still skeptical, because base attack time (attack animation) adjusts DPS in DotA.
-Burn


That has a point up to certain limit. The delay before the first missile/attack is executed is indeed up to both attack speed and the animation. The animation is the primary limit, if unit has no animation, the speed is set by attack speed. However if the unit has animation the speed it set first by animation and then by attack speed. Meaning if the animation is executed faster than the attack speed allows, the unit performs as many attacks as the animation allows. What this actually means is that if unit has a long-lasting attack animation it won't be able to hit as often as the pure attack speed should allow it, since the unit ALWAYS performs the animation to the very end - that is... assuming it has one.

If unit does not have an attack animation (swing point = 0, damage point = 0) the unit still tries to perform an animation, however if performing the animation takes longer than the attack speed of the unit (for example if animation takes 0.420 seconds, but attack speed is 0.4000) the animation is cut short, and the unit starts to perform a new attack already. This becomes very noticeable with extremely fast attack speeds, for example values below 0.50, where the units won't attack unit their animation is finished.

There is however a big problem in this animation attack speed synergy. Animation have set play times, meaning they cannot be pro-longed for ever. Setting huge animation times for example, Swing Point 0 and Damage point 10, makes the unit display the animation and then iddle for a long time, playing random "stand" animation since it cannot start a new attack animation yet, no matter what attack speed it has - it is performing the animation to the very "end".

So up to certain point, yes the animation affect only the initial damage, but then again not.
A) Having fast attack speed, but longer animations make this false.
B) Having fast animations but slow attack speed makes the damage land before the animation is performed (I think this happens with couple of titans), Correct "DPS"
C) Having fast attack speed and no animations make the animation cut short, and the damage lands when attack speed allows. Correct "DPS"

So, the animation is an external addon, which slows the damage down, decreasing DPS. Same effect is seen with spell casts, this same thing is to blame with the awful Glacious nuke or Syph attacks, that just look hideous. (The animation is performed to the end, causing a huge delay between the actual effect).
Last edited by Remixer on Wed Jul 27, 2016 2:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Burn
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Re: Builder Concept: Human

Postby Burn » Wed Jul 27, 2016 2:17 pm

I'm not going to read all that but it seems my skepticism of @neco being wrong is founded, and you've done your research.

-Burn

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Re: Builder Concept: Human

Postby Haunt » Wed Jul 27, 2016 6:52 pm

Demo is a demon, not undead. I'd argue the same about radio, it's infernal

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Re: Builder Concept: Human

Postby Lynx » Wed Jul 27, 2016 7:09 pm

Both are somewhat similar to undead

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Re: Builder Concept: Human

Postby Neco » Wed Jul 27, 2016 10:28 pm

Burn wrote:I'm not going to read all that but it seems my skepticism of @neco being wrong is founded, and you've done your research.

-Burn

Huh? You're completely wrong in remembering what it is I said.

Here's a link to the post: viewtopic.php?f=244&t=58772&p=237515

Thanks for spreading misinformation again Burn, seems to be a habit of yours :).
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Re: Builder Concept: Human

Postby Remixer » Wed Jul 27, 2016 11:02 pm

Neco, well no harm is done since we both know what we're talking about. As a side note, am I only one who cannot connect to the Hive Workshop?

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Re: Builder Concept: Human

Postby Neco » Wed Jul 27, 2016 11:37 pm

It's down at the moment, some DNS thing: https://twitter.com/hiveworkshop/status ... 0429756416
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Re: Builder Concept: Human

Postby pep » Thu Jul 28, 2016 12:40 am

imo tooltips should be for noobs just to explain and basic stats, advanced info should be on a wiki. But yea this builder looks alright, release in 2059? Does neco still edit?
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Re: Builder Concept: Human

Postby Burn » Thu Jul 28, 2016 2:27 am

Off topic:
Actually, no, that wasn't the post I was talking about. You told me once before that attack animations only affects initial DPS.

If you deny this conversation taking place, then we'll have to agree to disagree.

EDIT: I even have the alpha map that you gave me to support this claim: Island Defense 4.0.0.0089 Alpha OU9


-Burn
Last edited by Burn on Thu Jul 28, 2016 3:16 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Builder Concept: Human

Postby 1337hamburger » Thu Jul 28, 2016 2:45 am

Wow good shit fp!
!support


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