Terrain bugs

[Remixer]

Okay so I am fine with item jumping mechanic (though it is a bit noob-unfriendly) however today after foolihsly dying to one I had to check the map to see if my eye lied to me or not and I found ought couple of the ramps on the map are bugged (bad terraining) allowing Titan to IJ from where he should not be able to do it. So these ramps needs to be fixed, as they are not healthy - they are visually misleading and make literally no sense.

Examples of the ramps are middle top-left ramp (where I died) and middle bottom-right ramp (also bugged).

If mechanics such as item jumping is used it should be very clear where you can do it and when a titan cannot do it. And these ramps should be fixed.

[1337hamburger]

No, it's a skill gap. M8 if you don't like getting item jumped then just proof everything until you know the mechanics better.

[Lynx]

I'd like to think I covered jumping in ID quite nicely here.

Videos of item jumping: Builder, Titan.

[Remixer]

No, it's a skill gap. M8 if you don't like getting item jumped then just proof everything until you know the mechanics better.

Didn't think I'd hear that from you. But did you read anything I said? Also, a skill cap*.

@Lynx I know how the mechanics work and like I said it's completely okay they are there (would require a huge work around)

The problem I am talking about is the fact that some ramps have been raised/lowered partly and currently it is impossible to see which parts of the terrain belong to the ramp and thus, makes it practically impossible to counter, unless you know from experience that it is there.

[Lynx]

The problem I am talking about is the fact that some ramps have been raised/lowered partly and currently it is impossible to see which parts of the terrain belong to the ramp

Pics?

practically impossible to counter, unless you know from experience that it is there.

Jump proofing is never impossible, even to the beginner just learning jumping mechanics.

[1337hamburger]

Didn't think I'd hear that from you. But did you read anything I said? Also, a skill cap*.

Kinda weird you would assume that seeing as how we don't know each other. I (like many other "skilled" players) happen to think that item jumping brings a great skill gap, it gives new players something a bit more difficult to learn.
Off topic:
yes I meant to type skill gap, meaning it shows a difference in skill between new players and experienced ones, a skill cap would be something like you are suggesting; an update that removes higher level skill.

[Remixer]

Didn't think I'd hear that from you. But did you read anything I said? Also, a skill cap*.

Kinda weird you would assume that seeing as how we don't know each other. I (like many other "skilled" players) happen to think that item jumping brings a great skill gap, it gives new players something a bit more difficult to learn.
Off topic:
yes I meant to type skill gap, meaning it shows a difference in skill between new players and experienced ones, a skill cap would be something like you are suggesting; an update that removes higher level skill.

You really think it's skill to know visually bugged areas? I don't see any skill in that - just knowing the map (by finding out the bugs or just grinding it too long).

I did not understand your first sentence.

@Lynx






If that is not visually misleading then I do not know what is.

In the first pick item jumping from the lower area is impossible, thought it seems like it's not. (Except you can IJ to the small red rectangle thought it seems to be higher)

In the second pick item jumping is possible from a lot possible, when walls are placed farther from the middle, since the cliff level is actually lower than it seems to be.

In the last pick item jumping from the lower area is impossible, where as it would be really easy if walls are placed so that the lower area acts as additional, non-existing wall.

[1337hamburger]

Don't you get it, that is the whole point, what makes item jumping strong is that it takes time to learn where you can and cannot use it.

[Remixer]

Don't you get it, that is the whole point, what makes item jumping strong is that it takes time to learn where you can and cannot use it.

Wait what? You seriously can't think that! That makes literally no sense!

[1337hamburger]

Ok, you seem to be arguing just to argue, so I guess some else can try to explain. . . or not, doesn't really matter.

[Lynx]

You'd have to learn how the editor creates ramps, nothing wrong with learning. How would you even attempt to fix it?

[Remixer]

You'd have to learn how the editor creates ramps, nothing wrong with learning. How would you even attempt to fix it?

I already know how the editor creates ramps - I am a terrainer.

How to fix it?
A) Don't place ramps into a space they cannot fit in (this creates a black void hole in the ground (covered with rocks and shrubs in Island Defense), since it creates three problems: firstly it creates a misleading terrain that players cannot surely know how it works, secondly it can create pathing errors - making empty areas unwalkable and thirdly it requires a cover up that intensifies the two first problems.

B) Don't place ramps into cliff edges that are not ideal, since this creates really awkward looking ramps and thus have to be covered up with raise/lower tool and again create problems: firstly the vision is not working as it should according to the ground (raise/lower tool won't affect vision where as ramps do), and secondly it can create pathing bugs with terrain including unintentional blink or jump spots as well as awkward spawn spots after placing a structure.

C) Don't place too many ramps too close to each other. The map itself is already huge and we got enough space for ramps, no need to bunch them up a lot. Placing ramps too close to each other not only restricts vision but causes some errors: the cliffs can visually and physically glitch, allowing unintended movement or restrict movement that you wanted and also cause height problems, which again need to be smoothed with raise/lower tool that causes the same problems as earlier.

Now the situation with the middle ramps (checking which of A, B and C occur):
Top-left ramp:
A) There is a black void hole in the ground covered with a rock, this creates the problem in the picture I mentioned in my other post.

Top-Right ramp:
B) The lower ramp makes an really extreme curve for ramp, causing illogical vision behaviour and pathing that is not working as the terrain tells you.
C) The ramps are so close to each other that they partly overlap each other (not enough room to fix the problem A).

Bottom-Right ramp:
A) There is a black void hole covered with a few shrubs. This creates the problem I mentioned in a picture in my post above.
B) The ramps are placed into cliffs that are not ideal, causing the black hole and clumsy vision that needs to smoothed with raise/lower and further intensifying the problems.

Bottom-Left ramp:
This ramp, is good, nothing wrong with it in my eyes.

[Hash]

I'm really confused to what exactly you want accomplished? Do you want ramps removed to prevent ij? Even if done, ij can be done on flat terrain too, so it's kind of pointless to reduce/remove ramps.

[pep]

hi remixer why not make ur own version of id? it seems like you want to redo this whole map, neco probably aint gonna do it anyway.

[Burn]

This topic is long as fuck and probably just a stupid complaint about IJ, so admittedly I didn't read all of it. However, I did stumble upon this quote, which is what seems to be causing all the confusion:

Don't you get it, that is the whole point, what makes item jumping strong is that it takes time to learn where you can and cannot use it.

Wait what? You seriously can't think that! That makes literally no sense!

Yes, actually it does. It's called map experience, aka, learning the map.

In CS:GO all the new players learn Dust2 and have good map experience with it. Throw them in another map like inferno, and they won't be able to know the map inside out like dust2. You can see their KDA vastly suffer because they don't know where to walk and aim.

It's the same in ID, where you have to know the choke points and how to wall them, and to know to item jump every single tower base except beach base, which has no ramp.

-Burn