Everything wrong with 2.36

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BiBi169
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Everything wrong with 2.36

Postby BiBi169 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:33 pm

I'm just gonna list out some of the problems with 2.36 in no particular order:

  • Mid towers are too far from capitals. I see people losing 2 capitals and their superior towers in mid never hit a single unit that pushed from top. You probably could have units spawning between the capital and the towers to aggro the creeps so your towers in mid are actually useful, but a lot of people don't know how to do that. I've won games I should not have won only because I rushed top and the enemies who were ahead of my team the entire game could have won despite losing top if they didn't lose their capitals, but the mid towers being useless gave me free wins
  • Pathing is pretty bad, its common to have units that consistently get stuck every spawn for a few seconds before they start moving. This can actually be game losing because they still get stuck after upgrading them, so they would get stuck the entire game. For example, I like having galleys in front of my triremes, but my galleys can get stuck for 3+ seconds every spawn before they start moving, and now my triremes are in front of my galleys. Or, I could have my raiders get stuck and because of that lose a ton of dps. (Happens to land units too)
  • Even when units don't get stuck, if I built camps in a straight line, often times the units don't move in a straight line. I would have some outliers here and there which is pretty bad. If I built a straight line of 3 units in mid and the enemy mid did the exact same thing, the guy who got the better pathing for whatever reason would secure mid all the time. So yeah, diagonal builds might have been interesting, and nice intricate formations might have been nice in the past, but now it can all get ruined by poor rng because pathing sucks.
  • Units tend to bunch up in the middle which is pretty ridiculous. It used to be nice building camps across the entire lane to ensure the opponent doesn't get to flank you or to reduce the effectiveness of enemy aoe, but it seems like the pathing now forces all units to walk towards the center of the lane which (un)intentionally buffed all aoe units (because units are clustered together) and ranged units (because they can't be flanked).
  • Building land units on top lane as mid takes 0 build limit. Is this intended!??!?! There's really 0 real disadvantage to doing this and there's a ton of advantages for doing this. The only disadvantage which is minor imo is that you have a poor formation for mid so if you had the same units as the opponent mid, you would lose mid everytime, which really isn't an issue because securing mid is often about spending just a little bit more gold than the enemy mid.
  • Building docks on the rightmost edge of the map can get your ships stuck. Upgrading the docks doesn't help. Deactivating and reactivating doesn't help. Truly game losing bug.
  • Flame troopers ignore bunkers and attack other buildings. Yet another game losing bug. I have no idea if they ignore all towers or if it's only bunkers
  • Map is broken -- desyncs all day and there's no announcement tips so new players probably give up on this map when they desync
  • Workers are invulnerable so you can build great wall/maginot last minute and survive. Pretty ridiculous tbh
  • Workers can't repair capitals -- really? Was there a need for this change?
  • You can build buildings on the edge of your lane in bot, but you may not be able to finish building them. You build them, but you can't repair.
  • Interesting fact: towers hit warrior camps now. They used to not hit warrior camps but I guess this isn't really an issue...
  • Camps take 15 seconds to upgrade now instead of 22 seconds. I believe this was supposed to be a quality of life change for noobs but it really isn't If anything, it makes the game easier for experienced players. Eg. I can research bronze working at 0.30 and get a axeman by 1.30. In the previous map, the earliest possible timing would have been 2.00 Not that I would actually get an axeman at 1.30, but you get the idea
  • I hear many people are quitting because this map sucks according to them. As for me, I feel like the changes meant to help noobs out aren't really helping noobs, so.....
  • Not being able to repair was meant to prevent pulling + make life easier for noobs I assume? But now its getting noobs killed on top because they like to research useless tech and build useless markets
  • -kill command makes your game get stuck
  • Some guy said he built 1 camp and lost 2 build limit, no idea if he was confused or if he was right
  • As mid, if you build on the top left corner of the map you don't use limit -- there's a guy that does this very often and masses raiders on top and pretty much kills top every time by doing that which really ruins the game for everyone, especially so for noobs
  • Loading screen says sell materials removed but you can still sell materials
  • Terrain is pretty ugly

There's probably a lot more issues which I can't think of right now, but it seems like the game is pretty much dead now so maybe this thread is a waste of space.

Now, for the good points about this map:
  • Leavers don't desync the game anymore

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Quetra
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Re: Everything wrong with 2.36

Postby Quetra » Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:30 pm

I won't go through everything listed, since I intend to revert to 2.35E: most of the things listed though are bugs or related to pathing which I was working on fixing for the next version. Also workers were made invulnerable (to fix pulling etc) which is why they can't repair, buildings autorepair instead. Planned to change this in the next version as well.

Map is broken -- desyncs all day and there's no announcement tips so new players probably give up on this map when they desync


This is untrue though, the desync issues are unrelated to the map but rather are patch issues that occur everywhere (and will occur on 2.35e as well). You need to restart Warcraft 3 whenever you switch custom games or you risk desyncing. There was an announcement for this across the whole network but it was removed recently to announce that the next patch will be removing hostbots.

Anyway, because hostbots are being removed from battle.net within the next month or so, I am reverting the version to 2.35E . 2.36 was a work in progress but there's not much point refining it further when the end of organised civ is near.

BiBi169
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Re: Everything wrong with 2.36

Postby BiBi169 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:56 am

For posterity's sake, I'll continue naming problems with this map whenever I discover them:
  • Ships that land do have the same correct attack type as when they were ships, but their armor and armor type changes. Eg. Admiralty flagship has 12 fortified armor, but lands with 1 modern infantry armor
  • I heard several people mentioning a bug where when you share control, workers can move on their own, no idea if this is true or not
Let's hope wc3 isn't dead yet =(

BiBi169
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Re: Everything wrong with 2.36

Postby BiBi169 » Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:41 am

I hope I am not violating any rules like double posting or whatever, and I am aware I can edit my previous posts but I feel like posting new replies would be more beneficial for people who actually pay attention to this thread.

  • Eiffel tower aura doesn't give armor
  • Heard cathedral doesn't work
  • Obelisk when placed at a certain area in top will get your savages stuck (maybe other wonders will get stuck too? untested)

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Quetra
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Re: Everything wrong with 2.36

Postby Quetra » Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:54 pm

Ships that land do have the same correct attack type as when they were ships, but their armor and armor type changes. Eg. Admiralty flagship has 12 fortified armor, but lands with 1 modern infantry armor

Did you see it on others? As far as I can see it's only admiralty.
I heard several people mentioning a bug where when you share control, workers can move on their own, no idea if this is true or not

It's -kill related like the other bug. Weird Blizzard fuckery, all the trigger does is check what unit you have selected and then kill it if it belongs to you. No idea why it's causing these crazy bugs.
Heard cathedral doesn't work

It's working fine, the visual effect is not applying to some ships but it's working.

Thanks for the reports, will be useful if Civ Wars survives the next patch and I return to the map.

BiBi169
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Re: Everything wrong with 2.36

Postby BiBi169 » Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:50 am

Quetra wrote:Did you see it on others? As far as I can see it's only admiralty.

Same problem with frigates and destroyers. (I think) I have checked every unit except dreadnoughts/aegis so far.
Quetra wrote:It's working fine, the visual effect is not applying to some ships but it's working.

Today, I had a game where my team had railroad, but all 3 lanes didn't benefit from it, and our workers didn't benefit from it. I have built railroad many times and it usually works, but it seems like all aura wonders may not work sometimes.


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