Is civ wars dead?

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Mleko_O
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Is civ wars dead?

Postby Mleko_O » Thu Aug 30, 2018 3:17 pm

Bot seems to be offline for 20 days now if I see correctly
Noob ≠ Newbie

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Quetra
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Re: Is civ wars dead?

Postby Quetra » Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:31 pm

The bot is offline temporarily as the newest warcraft 3 patch broke the map. Blizzard is working on fixes, hopefully it will be back up next patch. For now you can join the civilization wars discord and wait for news @Mleko_O

https://discord.gg/Ntx4Upr

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Re: Is civ wars dead?

Postby Mleko_O » Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:31 pm

@Quetra Thanks, great to know
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Re: Is civ wars dead?

Postby Glacial » Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:49 am

Pretty much.

The bot not hosting the map for well over a month has reduced the player-base to basically nothing, and the latest game-design changes are too extreme and have alienated what's left.

Dead as a dodo.

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Quetra
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Re: Is civ wars dead?

Postby Quetra » Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:21 pm

The bot has been back online for less than a day. It is too early to judge the impact of the bot not being online for a while, and nobody even knows the new map is on there yet, so it's hardly driving players away yet.

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Re: Is civ wars dead?

Postby RandyKinds » Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:39 pm

Nope! Just a bit of a break due to the warcraft patch.. Ent Bot is hosting now, keep in mind the new version is out!

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Re: Is civ wars dead?

Postby samcrow » Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:02 am

Glacial wrote:The bot not hosting the map for well over a month has reduced the player-base to basically nothing, and the latest game-design changes are too extreme and have alienated what's left.


I agree, the ''new'' map looks like its made as one of the first custom games ever back in 2003.
Not to mention the minor shit that markets, banks, wonders just show 1/1 instead of actual income.
A set of markets costs 450materials which is roughly 5 min of game time, with full map control...

Rip civ 27.07.2018

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Quetra
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Re: Is civ wars dead?

Postby Quetra » Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:03 am

A set of markets costs 450materials which is roughly 5 min of game time, with full map control...


In the last version a set of markets cost 230 materials, and full map control gave you 24 materials, which also equals 5 minutes of game time.

That's why I doubled the cost of markets, because material output is doubled as well @Samcrow . Therefore your statement is as true for the previous map...

Not to mention the minor shit that markets, banks, wonders just show 1/1 instead of actual income.

Sure, map is unplayable now I guess.

I agree, the ''new'' map looks like its made as one of the first custom games ever back in 2003.


I made it from scratch and I'm fairly novice at mapmaking, but I did take a lot of time and care on it, and it's rude to have your work trashed like that. I am happy to read feedback and take it into account but not when you are rude like this. Especially grating when the complaint stems from something that isn't even true. You don't have to like the new version, but don't make such uninformed statements.

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Re: Is civ wars dead?

Postby samcrow » Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:30 am

Quetra wrote:I made it from scratch and I'm fairly novice at mapmaking, but I did take a lot of time and care on it, and it's rude to have your work trashed like that. I am happy to read feedback and take it into account but not when you are rude like this. Especially grating when the complaint stems from something that isn't even true. You don't have to like the new version, but don't make such uninformed statements.


You made it from scratch, took the good version offline for like 2 months, and then dump your ''new'' version on it (probably while thinking a version is better then no version) which imo nobody was waiting on.

Quetra wrote:In the last version a set of markets cost 230 materials, and full map control gave you 24 materials, which also equals 5 minutes of game time.

That's why I doubled the cost of markets, because material output is doubled as well @Samcrow . Therefore your statement is as true for the previous map...


Previous version u had only bot for materials, top for gold, meaning 1/3 of the map control would get u a set in 5 minutes, which is kinda different then needing a complete map for 5 minutes.

Quetra wrote: Not to mention the minor shit that markets, banks, wonders just show 1/1 instead of actual income.


Sure, map is unplayable now I guess.


Yeah for people who play on the highest level its actually better to see if a market gives 18/18, so u can see whats happening by the way of ur market income, instead of 1/1 which just translates to nothing mapwise. Same with east zipang, one quick check on it to see if its 180/180 every 30 sec and you know you have full map control. Atleast this has always been my experience, but what do i know lol.

Not sure why you'd think it would be a good idea not to be able to repair towers, but instead give them some regeneration. Lanes will die everytime now forcing midlane to tech like a maniac for better towers every game.

You cant even join another game anymore after playing ''civ'' without restarting or your ass gets desynced too.

Time will tell if other players who can actually play are impressed with your map but for me, its a big no go.

Like they say, never change a winning recipe.

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Quetra
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Re: Is civ wars dead?

Postby Quetra » Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:57 am

You made it from scratch, took the good version offline for like 2 months, and then dump your ''new'' version on it (probably while thinking a version is better then no version) which imo nobody was waiting on.


Firstly, the 'good' version also includes changes from me. Secondly, you had a year of the new version's changes being available, and said nothing. Thirdly, it's hardly my fault the bot had to be taken offline because Blizzard released a patch which broke the old version (and you are exaggerating on duration)

Previous version u had only bot for materials, top for gold, meaning 1/3 of the map control would get u a set in 5 minutes, which is kinda different then needing a complete map for 5 minutes.


Firstly, you only need a complete map for the first 15 minutes since material gain increases every 15 minutes. Secondly, in the previous version if you had 2/3 of the map control but not bot you would get a set in 25 minutes since the basic income was 5. Dividing the material gain amongst the lanes and increasing the basic income means it is actually easier to market (as you don't have to keep one lane locked for long periods), and means you have to focus on all of the lanes instead of just one. Same logic for dividing the gold amongst top/bot.

Yeah for people who play on the highest level its actually better to see if a market gives 18/18, so u can see whats happening by the way of ur market income, instead of 1/1 which just translates to nothing mapwise. Same with east zipang, one quick check on it to see if its 180/180 every 30 sec and you know you have full map control. Atleast this has always been my experience, but what do i know lol.


The reason it doesn't is I coded it differently without this in mind making it difficult to get this information. I can add it in future but will need to recode. It's obviously a nice feature but it's not exactly game breaking.

Not sure why you'd think it would be a good idea not to be able to repair towers, but instead give them some regeneration. Lanes will die everytime now forcing midlane to tech like a maniac for better towers every game.


If they have a large stack attacking the towers the amount you could repair was very limited anyway. Firstly that's not true, lanes do not die everytime now. You could play and see that for yourself. Secondly that's a matter of changing values, yes towers are now a little more vulnerable since you cannot repair during combat (though again, I think you are greatly over exaggerating the impact of this) but the hp of towers, regeneration rate, and time at which it regenerates (currently when not attacking, but can be changed to when not attacked, which is when you would repair previously usually) can all be changed to mitigate this. Regen rate is a bit slow atm so I will probably increase it.

I gave them regeneration because you can't have workers repairing when they are invulnerable. They are invulnerable to fix pulling. This is the only solution for that issue.

You cant even join another game anymore after playing ''civ'' without restarting or your ass gets desynced too.


Again, has nothing to do with me or the version. It's Blizzard and it's present in a great variety of maps. Including the old version.

Like they say, never change a winning recipe.


The great majority of games get content update patches, especially competitive ones... unless it's something like Quake where the balance is very set. This is certainly not the case for Civ. The meta was very stagnant and has been for many years. The lane rewards were one reason for this so I am switching it up.

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Re: Is civ wars dead?

Postby samcrow » Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:35 pm

As you suggested i played a game.
Conclusion: your ''noob friendly'' version just leaves more to exploit for the better players amongst us. Top breaks very easy. 3 Longboat docks did the job :/ (I already knew this before actually playing tho, just basic civ)
Quetra wrote:If they have a large stack attacking the towers the amount you could repair was very limited anyway.
Perhaps if you didnt know how to, but for people like me, i could repair a tower under the heaviest of siege making the difference between a lane down or just playing on. Now ur doomed if the opposite team will just flood top, or bot for that matter. Enough melee to suppress the spawn on the other side, some longboats to isolate a tower. Rip top. Bot same just with a few catapults and perhaps some stirrups. Cant say that for sure tho, havent tested, wont test, wont play again. Gl with your endeavors

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Quetra
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Re: Is civ wars dead?

Postby Quetra » Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:40 pm

So you didn't even play a game before complaining, and have decided you know exactly how the changes affect towers after a single game.

Thank you for your well researched feedback.

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Re: Is civ wars dead?

Postby samcrow » Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:58 pm

I have played civ from the very first versions until u took down the 2.35 one. I'd say after around a decade of playing game i dont need to play a match to realize what changes will bring. Especially changes like these. And yes you could argue not every game is the same, big argument there. However since its so freaking easy to break a lane now and pro team will just triple team on 1 side at some point and break it. Good luck fighting of a 15-25 longboat stack with ur regenerative towers mate. Lemme know how that works out for you. After all ''you understand the game on the highest level'', but cant quite seem to grasp whats right in front of you. A bad version. Whether i'd play one game or a thousand, conclusion would be the same.

Your noob friendly version only invites for more exploiting by better players.
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Glacial (Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:52 am)

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Re: Is civ wars dead?

Postby Glacial » Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:51 am

I'm sorry, but I have to agree with SamCrow.

It's... boring. Bland. And way dumbed down. It's the New Coke debacle all over again.

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Re: Is civ wars dead?

Postby Quetra » Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:33 pm

@Glacial
@Samcrow

I will bring back repair. Msg me on discord and we can discuss other elements of the game

Quetra#8938


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