Civilization Wars: Map Development

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RaptorXI
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Re: Civilization Wars: Map Development

Postby RaptorXI » Tue May 26, 2015 3:12 pm

DUTCHWEEDLOVE wrote:Only thing I'd say is the Bazaar nerf is a little too heavy 9000 gold is a bit high

Maybe one of those typos
XG made it 800,
my suggestion was 1000.
So 900?

If your primary interest is to play IH games, we would need some replays then. I don't have any.
Not sure about removing Rifling for Armor Plating and the sea balista, since the outcome is to make sea and bot the same?

rmp20002000 wrote:Would it not be weird if "Riflemen" don't require "Rifling"? Maybe change Rifling pre-requisite tech from Military Tradition to Machinery?


Rifling requires both, Machinery and and Military Tradition. Learn your own tech tree.
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Re: Civilization Wars: Map Development

Postby rmp20002000 » Tue May 26, 2015 3:51 pm

RaptorXI wrote:Rifling requires both, Machinery and and Military Tradition. Learn your own tech tree.


Yes, slipped my mind there, but I thought Dutch just wanted to make Ironclads more easily available, thus reducing the tech requirement. My point though was just the name of the tech. It should go without saying that riflemen require rifling, just like airplanes should require Flight.

I don't think "rifling" should be renamed. Every tech here can be found in the Sid Meier Civilisations series. There is no tech named "Hull Armor Plating". It's really just a flavour thing though.
Last edited by rmp20002000 on Tue May 26, 2015 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Civilization Wars: Map Development

Postby RaptorXI » Tue May 26, 2015 3:57 pm

Any final words?
For example, savage warriors?

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Re: Civilization Wars: Map Development

Postby nabo. » Tue May 26, 2015 5:32 pm

Would you please post the average waiting and game time on Ent16, since it is by far the most popular autohosting bot on Battle.net at the moment?

Code: Select all

Bot ID   Games in last week   Last gamename
16   379   [ENT] Civilization Wars #56

Not many games per week.

Not sure if we keep records of waiting time.
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Re: Civilization Wars: Map Development

Postby RaptorXI » Tue May 26, 2015 7:18 pm

No more response on public domaines.
Wait until it's done.

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Re: Civilization Wars: Map Development

Postby lorddancello » Tue May 26, 2015 9:34 pm

I think it's fair to adjust the price for Bazaar to 1000g but no need to adjust the benefit of it.
After all, 1000g in early game is quite a lot and team insist in lane control first do earn more from it this time.

A suggestion to encourage tech is every tech completed can add armor, attack point or something. So units can be stronger without upgrade to next tier's units.

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Re: Civilization Wars: Map Development

Postby MedSci » Wed May 27, 2015 3:26 pm

A new official community has been created to continue Warcraft III Civilization Wars!
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rmp20002000 (Wed May 27, 2015 11:21 pm)

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Re: Civilization Wars: Map Development

Postby we-giv-up-u-win » Wed May 27, 2015 10:59 pm

Hi Raptor. Before you read this I wanted to clarify nothing is meant to offend you or be confrontational. I already know how you react to what I say and I strongly believe there is information lost in translation. You know I don't want the map to change but what follows is genuine opinions for the betterment of civilization wars.

- Workers don't do damage anymore

Good
- reduced the HP of a deactivated unit to 500, armor to 0

Don't see a reason for this. As dutch said, it would affect the rate at which a dropped lane would die in a rush. Rushing is a viable strategy I don't think we should discourage it.
- non-starting towers have +50% Hp by now

Bad. I believe towers were nerfed a while back because towering used to be really OP. I remember in really early versions towering was the way to go because they were so strong and repair rate was faster and cheaper. Then the towers lost hp, repair time was increased, and towering is now much harder.
Mode changes:

Don't care about these, don't play them
- reduced cost of pottery: 125 => 100
- reduced cost of Guerilla Warfare: 375 => 300
- increased the cost of Gunpowder: 375 => 450

Bad. What is the reasoning for this? Reduction in pottery will encourage new players to get it faster and granary. Increasing gunpowder literally does nothing since it is the first tech for side lanes anyway. All it does is push back when you click the button a tick. As for guerilla warfare, why put a medieval tech at the cost of an ancient tech?? Makes no sense.
- remade and buffed Dromon

Good. Depends on the changes, it obviously needs to be tested. Considering dromon's only purpose in the game now is to save mid some time in getting a leader, I think a rework is positive.
- remade and buffed Commando Mech

Bad. What was wrong with commando?
- Crossbowmen received +100 range

Bad. One of the purposes of crossbowmen were to be shorter range. What was the reasoning for this?
- remade the Mausoleum: a 2nd command aura that stacks with the units requiring leadership, increased cost to 1600

Bad. This is not the way to go about mauso rework. If you are trying to make it a viable alternative to leaders (which I believe you are) this is pointless. In a scenario using mauso instead of leaders, the aura has nothing to stack with anyway. Then it is just a command aura on its own without the pushing power of the physical leader.
- remade the Bazaar of Alexandria: increases cost 750 => 9000, reduced the gold income epr set to 15

Bad. A little too nerfed in my opinion. Again, if you are trying to diversify gameplay, you need to make it equal to the other types of marketing. Start with just reduction in gold income per set and keep cost at 750. That is same cost as the single lane wonders.
- increased the cost of the Great Obelisk: gold 540 => 550, material 125 => 200

Bad. 200 material is WAY to expensive for such an early, basic wonder. I really think obelisk is fine how it is because rushing it is not worth it, and if you don't rush it, there is a good chance you lose LH.
- reduced cost for Magellan's expedition: 2700 => 2500

Good. Honestly, it might need to be reduced even further. Caravels are only good for a short period of time, then you want frigates or invulnerable support. Furthermore, mag can not be upgraded to submarines. I think it would be good to reduce magellan's even further and have it only spawn 2 caravels. Make it have a smaller up front cost so that it is more balanced when you have to go add invulnerables or frigates for subs later.
- reduced cost for Big Ben: 4200 => 4000

Ha, I think big ben is beyond saving. Dreads are so weak to submarines anyway.
- decreased the cost of Genereal Mills, the Panama Canal and the Hoover Dam for each to 1000 gold

Good.
- disabled the chance to spawn a great leader, due to a bug

Elaborate?
- fixed some typos

Good.

Raptor, I think the problem right now if you want to do anything with the map is you dont listen to the players who were around when there was competive play, and you do not have enough knowledge how the game is played in a real pro way(or when and how to use different towers/wonders).
just the simple quote from last post saying bazaar is the lazy play proves that, locking bot lane vs bazaar is easier than actually being able to swing bot lane after you get bazaar. It is Alot more work to play with bazaar compared to locking a lane... Aslong as you wont listen to the community, your map will never be played, espically no if you do make changes that makes the game unbalanced...

Hit the nail on the head with this one, I completely agree.

This is not true: After all lanes are claimed, every lane has 4 starting towers and they all have the same HP since they receive the same free upgrade after certain technologies have been researched by at least one player.

This statement stood out to me, too. It is very obvious what rmp20002000 meant was that side lanes are protected by 2 towers THEN an additional 2 towers. This is NOT equal to the middle lane being protected by 4 all at once. That is very obvious.

All that being said, I hope you do not take anything personal. I hope you do not discount my statements as you have with other strong players in this thread that have offended you.
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MedSci (Thu May 28, 2015 9:02 am)

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Re: Civilization Wars: Map Development

Postby MedSci » Thu May 28, 2015 9:02 am

I am kinda new here but I would like to moderate. I know Raptor very well. He can be aggressive fast and sometimes behaves "likes a boss", but he actually he isn't like that. He is working at the moment. Expect me me to post an answer for him later the day (UTC+2 timezone here).

@we-giv-u-win
There is nothing offensive at your post and I am sure he appreciates feedback like this. I will print it so he can read it.

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Re: Civilization Wars: Map Development

Postby MedSci » Thu May 28, 2015 4:38 pm

Sorry for a doublepost:

RaptorXI wrote:... the outcome of the reddit forum by dangime was poor, it started promising, with the aim to make an inpendent game,
ending up in theory-crafting and hoping for a of mod of legion td 2 to edit. so i tried on my own, since i wanted to release something
and came into contact with dangime, but he didnt do anything after his last release (2.16) and
wasnt interested in a wc3 version. the next one was terrabull, but he said he lost the file of his last release (2.30 beta 39)
so i asked x.g.death3, who uploaded beta 39 into 2.30 final, if i may continue, but at first he said no and would prefer to keep it like this.
i asked him again, and then he gave me the open version. i failed at first to get something to laod due to no experience adn skills with the wc3 editor and jass,
so i gave a copy of the original file to someone else who asked for it, but his release end up in beta phase...
[some weird]
... after starting the thread on the ent forum (no one was forced to reply, you did it because you were attracted to it) i felt encouraged by the moderators and gave me a chance.
clan tlc is down to maybe 10-20 players who cant least log in once per month, and half of them dont even play civ wars then.
all those comments about "good olt times" and former players. where are they? obivously they dont play anymore.
maybe died of boredom due to their playstyle....
[flaming]
always the same... people talk about how bad public games are, but it comes to to their repsonsibilty they fail,
by joining stacked teams only or never playing, only commenting from the side.
i havent played a single IH/intern/private game or whatever they were called since i joined the clan.
sometimes there is someone on for a 1v1 and that's it.
if there no such high quality games anymore, you are relied on public games, with lots of downlaoders and trolls that
they way more games or simply dont want to play competetive and professional (=win, in a fair and mannered way), by making
[flaming again]
now that there is someone who is about to release something they come and tell how "the game has to be played".
there is no ultimate strategy, and as a mapper i also take care about who simply enjoy the game, no matter who is the winner and the loser.

this will be the changelog:
- new loading screen made by NoZ
- workers don't do damage anymore
- increased the cost of the Misson Control Centre to 11 000 gold
- the Manhattan Project gives free technology only to the owner now
- typos fixed

If ENT doesn't want this version instead of the old one on their bots (awesome way to track stats, by the way), i'm ok with it.
You guys, the community failed, to make agreements about what changes you would like to see in the map and the game.
Most of them wanted just a new version with their own changes in, won't happen.
Only supersexyy, braveheart wins (aka forum clown krayyzie) and lorddancelo (bearbymside) made more sugegstions about fundamental things,
which could break open the gmepla a bit.
that was why i stated it was "fully explored by now". i'm all up for changes, but if all play on a public bot don't complain about the niveau.


Since here was there flaming at this thread, please watch your language when requesting something and make sure that you the facts you are correct,to prevent discussions becoming personal and off-topic.
Thank you for your attention.
We will release soon.

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Re: Civilization Wars: Map Development

Postby RaptorXI » Fri Jun 19, 2015 3:09 am

Civilization Wars 2.32 has been released. A small update version as a first step. Once it's on Ent16 we can talk about about further relases with deeper changes than the few i've made so far. For me it's not about putting my name under other's work (right now 98-99% belongs to Dangime, Terrabull and X.G.Death3), i want to make the game as enjoyable as possible.
I will try to learn from the mistakes i've made in this thread regarding balance, but as a mapper i haveto take care about public interested too, although everyone who replied to this thread was a pro or a clan member. I will check the reddit forum from time to time, but since my project is the wc3 map, the preferred way to talk about the game is here.

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Re: Civilization Wars: Map Development

Postby nabo. » Fri Jun 19, 2015 10:55 pm

@RaptorXI

The map has been updated.
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MedSci (Fri Jun 19, 2015 11:44 pm)
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Re: Civilization Wars: Map Development

Postby RaptorXI » Fri Jun 26, 2015 5:48 pm

For further balance discussions i would like if we keep with the following rules:
* Custom modes [which player 1 (red) can iniate] exist for fun. If you would like to see new modes, let me know.
* Don't complain about the niveau of public games, when only public games. Clan POPE has been remade and they host IH games.
* Don*t pick on certain players/styles/builds and with that, let discussions end up in a flame war. Name reasons, state facts.

Feel free to post your personal "list of suck" below. But to improve the map, only complaining isn't much helpful, so please make suggestions when you aren't satisfied with something.

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Re: Civilization Wars: Map Development

Postby RaptorXI » Sun Jun 28, 2015 8:13 am

LIMITED SPECIAL EDITION RELEASED
PM is.os for a copy

changelog wrote:- renamed the Bazaar of Alexandria into Bazaar of NOOBS
- workers can fly
- granaries are invulanerable
- the effect of bank and stock stacks now, up to 10 times
- all melee units deal 1000% damage more
- all towers deal 10000% damage more
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I_kill_satan (Mon Jun 29, 2015 11:17 am)

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Re: Civilization Wars: Map Development

Postby toyman19 » Mon Jun 29, 2015 12:02 pm

Can we count on port for Dota 2 Reborn? Many great ports have already been released including footman frenzy, enfos, angel arena, pudge wars etc. Please share your opinion on the above.


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