Bships dead all that stands is a coffin hosted by ent gaming

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pacoquerak
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Bships dead all that stands is a coffin hosted by ent gaming

Postby pacoquerak » Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:23 pm

the whole novelty and intrigue of crossfire was goblin/greenpeace. Even if we could get the people to play bships (which I believe there hasn't been a single game launched on ENT server in over a month!!!) it's very difficult to enjoy playing an incredibly unbalanced game. Goblins was part of the balance that allowed one team to not be completely steamrolled by the other as good goblin players would exploit over aggressive enemies defenses. Even with goblins the game was always horribly unbalanced we enjoyed it for the novelty, though I would bet money the vast majority of bships players greatly preferred battleships pro. That wasn't even many of the diehards favorite game mode. Battleships 5.0 was dope and 3.5 was even better, by far the coolest bships with the coolest ships and the coolest weapons, the coolest map, heck it even felt balanced like battleships pro. 5.0 felt pretty balanced too. Crossfire is an unbalanced heap. I don't believe it was ever even meant to be a replacement to battleships pro, just a cool variant to switch to for novelty.

Is there anything ENT can do to help revive this great game? Or are the fans of one of the most popular of all wc3 custom games of all time doomed to their own inability to support the game? You guys don't even host battletanks which I almost never played but used to be as popular or almost as popular as battleships. I request any form of bships be hosted, even if it's the latest version of battleships pro, even if it means still hosting crossfire but allowing people to play goblins. Ideally there could be a weekly rotation of which battleships mode was hosted. Is it possible someone could volunteer to help support the bships community?

Respectfully thank you ent gaming.

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Re: Bships dead all that stands is a coffin hosted by ent gaming

Postby CluelessFlamer » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:47 pm

Hi @pacoquerak

Goblins was part of the balance that allowed one team to not be completely steamrolled by the other

Goblins had the potential to pressure the dominating team in order to "balance". However, I dont feel they increase the general fairness or balance. And I think a significant share (if not the majority) prefer a 4v4 compared to the additional chaos factor of a 3rd team. Also there is a very important technical reason: Desyncs occur more often in games with goblins than without. All in all I think its not worth it.
I would bet money the vast majority of bships players greatly preferred battleships pro

You would lose that money :D Although I have no documented numbers I can assure you Crossfire was the most played battleships version since atleast 2011. It was always the most played version in europe. There was a time when the pro 199 was played a lot, mainly east and west, today nobody seems to play it.
Battleships 5.0 was dope and 3.5 was even better

The 3.5b will always be my favorite version. I consider it pretty balanced.
Crossfire is an unbalanced heap

Crossfire has serious balancing issues like all battleships maps. But imo its not as unbalanced as pro 199 from a neutral pov. Consider the crusader in 199. Also think of the danish ship in 3.5b that deals unspeakable amounts of dmg even against ships that cost 10k more.

Ent.61 is inaccessible for 2 weeks or so. Since crossfire is not as big a deal as it used to be they decided that other bot's keys have priority. Its a pragmatic call even if I dont like it. Good news is: There is a crossfire autohost. Add shipbot to your friendlist. I'd love to see you in game :)
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Re: Bships dead all that stands is a coffin hosted by ent gaming

Postby pacoquerak » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:07 pm

I never found crusaders to be op. Just extremely annoying. They had an exciting and interesting niche and could be played a number of different ways. I felt all crusader teams were easily countered with any 2000+ gold ship from dom to predator, jugg or overloard. Crusaders are in crossfire, they feel more op than they were in pro. I almost never picked crusader and had better luck with sailor. I was one of the players who preferred to stick to the starting ship as long as possible which was often very powerful tactic. It doesn't work in crossfire because as soon as they get a decent weapon you can't buy anything outside your base. It's sad that crossfire is the most played because it is obviously the worst version of the map, don't want to disparage it too much as it is still a fun and interesting map, but as I said before it was more of a change of pace. It probably only got popular because players refused to join other alternative maps with less novelty which were superior and the later additions of bships pro was inferior to the originals. Sked was the man, we Americans want Sked maps. Honestly crossfire has no luster to me anymore, even though I enjoyed it in the past without goblins and the superior versions it feels like playing battleships with a crippling disability. Always lose. At least when we had goblins I could have fun losing.

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Re: Bships dead all that stands is a coffin hosted by ent gaming

Postby CluelessFlamer » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:23 pm

They had an exciting and interesting niche and could be played a number of different ways.

Agree 100 %. I liked the meta of it. It was very competitive as well. The crusader was op though and I am pretty sure you know it. The thing about it being even stronger in crossfire is just nonsense^^ I love Sked's orginal too. I dont understand why you are so rude towards the crossfire but if you were "one of the players who preferred to stick to the starting ship as long as possible" I get it.

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Re: Bships dead all that stands is a coffin hosted by ent gaming

Postby pacoquerak » Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:00 pm

I disagree that crusader spam was meta, one crusader on your team was really good, crusader spam was no so good. It was only op cause people are stupid and let crusader sui them non stop

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Re: Bships dead all that stands is a coffin hosted by ent gaming

Postby khspww94 » Fri Sep 15, 2017 1:30 pm

ENT will not be going to autohost Battleship Pro already... It used to have a large pool number of players.. As time pass it reduces due to several players ruins the game.. Those who still around before ENT decide to stop autohosting them tried their best to advice ENT on ways to improve them but the recent change of map was not favourable.. And everything else after that is history..

If really want to revive back the game, firstly we need to regroup back the older players and decide if ENT would still be the most suitable platform to host them or just use other platform..

Also, Crusader are never op or even a meta for starter.. For those more experience players, Crusader can be easily countered.. Practically only begineers and noobs are victims of Crusaders..
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Re: Bships dead all that stands is a coffin hosted by ent gaming

Postby CluelessFlamer » Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:08 am

@khspww94

Also, Crusader are never op or even a meta for starter.. For those more experience players, Crusader can be easily countered.. Practically only begineers and noobs are victims of Crusaders..

Are you talking about the last 2 years or about the period when it was played by more than 10 guys? When I played it 10 years ago in east the scene was very competitive. A lot of players could call the winner of a game before game start because one side had an insane crusader role player. That is my personal recollection. Now about the balance once again. I am gonna quote PrescottRX who made the recent updated version.
Spoiler!
The Crusader (1300g) comes with 750 hp to start (Interceptor 1300g has 500 hp to start), has 4 abilities (all other basic ships have 2, and only 2 others have 3), can go invisible for 6-16 seconds (25s cooldown), causes single target and AoE damage, can instantly reuse this ability (the typical cooldown for other damage abilities is 45-60s), the intercept ability on the Interceptor to counter capsize has a 25s cooldown, can trap a ship in place for 3-7.5 seconds, and has true sight (no item = extra inventory space). To have a chance to defend against this ship, all members of the opposing team must choose from the following: buy a mid size ship (Dom 2500g/Dest 2500g/Junker 1700g/Interceptor 1300g), purchase sight using 1 of 6 inventory slots, buy a hull (Bronze 800g/Gold 2500g) which slows the ship dramatically and/or purchase teleport. There is not one other ship in the game that dictates the pace of the game the way this ship does. This is not 'Pro' this is an imbalance.


Now, do I like the new version better although its more balanced? No. But his point remains very valid, especially considering his years of experience as a modder, including contributions to 3.5b and other battleship versions.

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Re: Bships dead all that stands is a coffin hosted by ent gaming

Postby khspww94 » Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:26 am

Yes and i appreciate his inputs on Crusader and his efforts on making new versions.. But where is he now? He left the new map hanging without actually releasing the fully balanced map... And ENT stop autohosting it due to the drop in number of players.. What is his effort and ENT effort in trying to improve this?

On the note for Crusader, have you actually tried playing Crusader for a starter? Its not easy to just capsized or dominate game.. Battleship Pro is about teamwork and not solo.. For those players who loves only to kill the other Captains but actually don't cooperate with other teamates, its a lost cause..

Of course I'm talking about the days where it was competitive back then in 10 years ago.. Its still is conpetitive for in house games.. Thou I'm not sure if you are even in any of those games... Furthermore, since you support CF so much, kindly get it started already (be it recruit new people in or find your old mates back).. Its been 445 hours since it last played... If nothing else, I don't see how barking here helps a lot..

Since you are quoting Prescott too, kindly check the other replies that I have input on his changes and stop talking as if you are the only few players that are still around and concerns about Battleship... Just because one don't mention it, does not mean they don't do anything..
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Re: Bships dead all that stands is a coffin hosted by ent gaming

Postby CluelessFlamer » Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:34 am

I dont know where PrescottRX is. It is unfortunate that he left, but as long as there is no bot hosting 199 successfully it doesnt matter much, does it? Yes I have played crusader for start. It is easy to dominate early game with it. It is less promising in accelerated mode of course. No argument there. I prefer playing overlord or destroyer most of the time. If you still play inhouse 199 games please inform me Id love to participate if its not too late in the european night :)

Ent's crossfire bot is offline. There is clan XRay's autohost (shipbot) that hosted 100+ games already in the 2 weeks its been up. Feel free to join, if only to discuss more. I enjoy this spirited exchange and wouldnt consider it barking. As far as activity on bots AND forum goes I actually am one of the few concerned (including you obviously!).
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Re: Bships dead all that stands is a coffin hosted by ent gaming

Postby pacoquerak » Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:46 pm

Okay I got another reason crossfire sucks. Seems like someone drops every single game.

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Re: Bships dead all that stands is a coffin hosted by ent gaming

Postby Astros » Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:49 pm

Crusader is the most vital ship in Pro. The best players played them because they were the most impactful ship. I'm talking about the old old days where you had two pro Crusader's on each team and the winner of those crusader battles was usually the winner of the game. Nowadays, the "pros" are just feeding off players who sit there and have no idea how to buy scope.
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Re: Bships dead all that stands is a coffin hosted by ent gaming

Postby CluelessFlamer » Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:48 pm

@chineseeagle
chineseeagle wrote:Crusader is the most vital ship in Pro. The best players played them because they were the most impactful ship. I'm talking about the old old days where you had two pro Crusader's on each team and the winner of those crusader battles was usually the winner of the game. Nowadays, the "pros" are just feeding off players who sit there and have no idea how to buy scope.

Thats exactly how I remember it too. I was a bit confused when the others in this thread started talking about crusader "spam" because I dont think I mentionned that anywhere but was merely talking about the impact of the crusader on 199's meta. Probably my words were mistaken because I didnt make my point clear. I was surprised that they downplayed the role of the most impactful ship in the game. I remember a few of the DACI crusader players. Holy shit, they were insane! Im kinda sad that I cant remember any of the best players nicknames from back in the days. So young and already my brain seems to shut down slowly :D
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Re: Bships dead all that stands is a coffin hosted by ent gaming

Postby pacoquerak » Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:58 am

I remember daci they were nube butthurt tryhards that got stomped on the regular. Crusader was annoying but counterable with dominators and ork ships also we would shoot down incomingcrusaders with captains cannons...
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Re: Bships dead all that stands is a coffin hosted by ent gaming

Postby Astros » Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:25 pm

@pacoquerak

You remember the noob DACI. You haven't played against DACI-Ahrmed, Vinny, Basescu, Tavy, etc.,
I played with and against the best Battleships players and it's a shame ENT was not alive back then to track how badly you guys would have been beaten vs the best of Battleships. Guys like rnakp5, mushroombruiser, lawboixD, Aussie_Spirit.. No question you guys would lose. And dominator never beats a sader. Sader was by far the most impactful ship and probably still is when used appropriately.
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Re: Bships dead all that stands is a coffin hosted by ent gaming

Postby Astros » Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:27 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxhSAWDjdXw

Pretty much how a sader battle would go.
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