Civilization Wars: Map Development

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rmp20002000
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Re: Civilization Wars: Map Development

Postby rmp20002000 » Tue Apr 28, 2015 1:34 pm

For me, I would be content if it were possible to put into the "auto messages" that "pulling" is considered an exploit and is not allowed/ban-able, assuming nobody objects to disallowing "pulling" that is

RaptorXI
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Re: Civilization Wars: Map Development

Postby RaptorXI » Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:41 pm

Hey,

Pulling is no ban reason yet, we banned it from private games when we had enough players, i made a suggestion for Ent16 that has not been approved, so support it. ;)
https://entgaming.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=55802

But i'm glad you a way from the bots to here. :)

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Re: Civilization Wars: Map Development

Postby RaptorXI » Wed Apr 29, 2015 9:28 pm

With some help i've finally made a new version. I am expecting it to replace the current one, but for now we should gather some feedback and test it before making it an official release.

Changelog:

General changes:
- Workers don't do damage anymore, reduced their turnrate 0.60 => 0.10
- reduced the HP of a deactivated unit to 500, armor to 0

Unit changes:
- remade and buffed Dromon
- remade and buffed Commando Mech

Wonder changes:
- remade the Mausoleum: a 2nd command aura that stacks with the units requiring leadership
- remade the Bazaar of Alexandria: increases cost 750 => 1000, it gives now 15 gold per set, instead of 20
- increased the cost of the Great Obelisk: gold 540 => 550, material 125 => 200
- increased the cost for the great Lighthouse: 1125 => 1200


Load code: ovzv2 (map is also attached).

I want to thank everybody who has helped testing so far and hopefully there will be more, if there is a resonance and enough space i will add names to the credits.
Attachments
Civilization Wars 2.30 Beta 41.w3x
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DUTCHWEEDLOVE
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Re: Civilization Wars: Map Development

Postby DUTCHWEEDLOVE » Wed May 06, 2015 4:39 pm

RaptorXI wrote:

Sup guys, I'm not very active anymore but feel free to use this:

http://i.imgur.com/IvXxXEM.jpg

I made it a long while back and was never implemented. I'll be sure to stop by soon.

NoZ



I assume i may use this loading screen for a new version?

Speaking a bit for NoZ here, but I'm sure you could use it. It once was made for a version which XG worked on but never got through. Maybe add the Civ Wars Reddit (www.reddit.com/r/civilization_wars) or one or both of the current civ wars clan to the loading screen (Clan TLC @ US-East & Clan CIV @ US-East). A new version with some balance updates would be great but I don't think it's realistic in the current state of the mod. Fixing those bugs however would really be of use to all of the community and would be much appreciated.

rmp20002000
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Re: Civilization Wars: Map Development

Postby rmp20002000 » Thu May 07, 2015 9:14 pm

RaptorXI wrote:With some help i've finally made a new version. I am expecting it to replace the current one, but for now we should gather some feedback and test it before making it an official release.

Changelog:

General changes:
- Workers don't do damage anymore, reduced their turnrate 0.60 => 0.10





If workers don't do damage anymore, does that mean they cannot pull?

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Re: Civilization Wars: Map Development

Postby Krayyzie » Thu May 07, 2015 11:32 pm

Well :) the changes mean locking 1 lane will be insanely strong as bazaar and locking 1 lane fully were pretty equal if you had a game with 6 good players. Now locking one lane will be the only good play in a competive game.

Workers can pull even if they dont do damage i´d guess since pulling is actually when they repair...

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Lazerus
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Re: Civilization Wars: Map Development

Postby Lazerus » Sat May 09, 2015 6:12 pm

Hello, I am a map maker and I would love to help. I pride my self on good clean polished fun with no cheats. I have made 8 playable maps but the one I worked on the most is Lazerus TD. I just started playing Civ Wars again after some 4 years of dedicated castle fight play. I have played Civilization 5 a lot and I understand the concept. PM me if ur interested.

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Re: Civilization Wars: Map Development

Postby RaptorXI » Sat May 16, 2015 1:01 am

DUTCHWEEDLOVE wrote:
Speaking a bit for NoZ here, but I'm sure you could use it. It once was made for a version which XG worked on but never got through. Maybe add the Civ Wars Reddit (http://www.reddit.com/r/civilization_wars) or one or both of the current civ wars clan to the loading screen (Clan TLC @ US-East & Clan CIV @ US-East). A new version with some balance updates would be great but I don't think it's realistic in the current state of the mod. Fixing those bugs however would really be of use to all of the community and would be much appreciated.


Adding clans or other websites/froum can be added, although i don't see much activity at those meeting points.
But why is a balanced version not realistic in the current state?

rmp20002000 wrote:
RaptorXI wrote:With some help i've finally made a new version. I am expecting it to replace the current one, but for now we should gather some feedback and test it before making it an official release. I don't wanna make fundamental changes and keep civ wars in the old way (the game game we all know and love), that's why i i only made these small changes.

Changelog:

General changes:
- Workers don't do damage anymore, reduced their turnrate 0.60 => 0.10





If workers don't do damage anymore, does that mean they cannot pull?


No, because pulling is based on a script built in to WC3 AI, it gets enabled when someone uses to build/repair function. Unless Bliazzard ever releases an open source version, banning is the only solution i see.

Krayyzie wrote:Well :) the changes mean locking 1 lane will be insanely strong as bazaar and locking 1 lane fully were pretty equal if you had a game with 6 good players. Now locking one lane will be the only good play in a competive game.

Workers can pull even if they dont do damage i´d guess since pulling is actually when they repair...


Bazar was too strong, I am not only speaking about pub games, where balanced rarely happen, but also got some IH experience. Having 1 lane locked and market it hardcore is stronger than Bazar, but much harder to achieve. The current system also intends players to try new marketing strategies, for example: You can also try to make all lanes swing and then market each lane that you control by activating/deactivating.

Lazerus wrote:Hello, I am a map maker and I would love to help. I pride my self on good clean polished fun with no cheats. I have made 8 playable maps but the one I worked on the most is Lazerus TD. I just started playing Civ Wars again after some 4 years of dedicated castle fight play. I have played Civilization 5 a lot and I understand the concept. PM me if ur interested.


Thanks for your interest, I will contact you.

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Re: Civilization Wars: Map Development

Postby I_kill_satan » Sat May 16, 2015 8:29 am

RaptorXI wrote:No, because pulling is based on a script built in to WC3 AI, it gets enabled when someone uses to build/repair function. Unless Bliazzard ever releases an open source version, banning is the only solution i see.


Easystyle suggested to make ancient workers sleep 10-15 sec after they achieve mid point with signature - "i m so tired, its time to sleep". "I m going to pull but tired. Time to sleep. ZzzzZZZzzzZZZ"

That could prevent early game pull at all :D

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Re: Civilization Wars: Map Development

Postby RaptorXI » Sat May 16, 2015 4:29 pm

I_kill_satan wrote:
Easystyle suggested to make ancient workers sleep 10-15 sec after they achieve mid point with signature - "i m so tired, its time to sleep". "I m going to pull but tired. Time to sleep. ZzzzZZZzzzZZZ"

That could prevent early game pull at all :D


Yes, he told me too.But that would nerf strategies like building an offense tower or the ledge rush. Again, the only solution i see is to ban pulling...

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Re: Civilization Wars: Map Development

Postby I_kill_satan » Wed May 20, 2015 11:43 am

@RaptorXI
Maybe i partly agree wit u :)

But wat is more important - to cease pulling strategy but nerf a several third-rate or fun strategies, or just have this problem with keep that ones as level as they currently have?

If personally u very like to build tower at mid from beginning, and only because of that u dont want to see (ur own words) any possibilities to fix pull, that is not mean that there are only way to fix pull is banning it. U can ban pulling on Ent gaming but Ent gaming is not only one place where Civ Wars is played, and that people dont care about ent bans. They will think that pulling is a part of skill, untill the map restrictions are allow them do it. They come to play ent and they will pull again and again, because they train it in other place, and ban change nothing with it.

Btw, as u also mentioned, early-towering combined with pulling is very serious abuse of game mechanics, which is could not be countered by reactive pulling.

If we take LTD as a benchmark, we have a lot of rules for fixing bugs/glitches of map, but it is only because we cant make any changes there. In Civ Wars, we still can do it, so it would be great to make program-determined fixes.

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Re: Civilization Wars: Map Development

Postby RaptorXI » Wed May 20, 2015 6:47 pm

Name a solution about pulling and i will implement it into the map...

I see the following possibilities:
1.) keep the final version, no changes.
2.) make pulling a ban reason on every bot like we just did on Ent16 and spread the word, don't teach it to new players as "pro" strategy anymore!
3.) make workers invulnerable like in Castle fight: AI units wouldn't aggro them anymore, but it would bring a bunch of new problems, for example everyone can build everywhere, most likely ledge rushing every game
4.) make workers alot weaker (less hp, no hp regeneration, slower turnrate, disable damage...): I made the last 2 in my first beta since they won't harm anyone (i hope). Workers are not fighting units, they can build and repair. But if we reduce their hp and regen they will die faster when they the repair function is need, for example repairing towers at a rush.
5.) in my opinion the worst: welcome pulling and make it part of the game, like in kciv, where you a get a super fast worker only for pulling.
6.) hope that Blizzard releases an open version and we can finally disable that script.

Anything i miss? Your opinion?

About towers (and some other things i would to work on): They have been part of the game since i ever play civ wars (5-6 years now) and most likely it makes you lose unless you really know what you are doing. But also i wonder: Have you ever talked Dangime or Terrabull? They and XG brought us the game and created it how we know it. But have they asked you for your opinion? I don't wanna make a revolution or make it a TD, but it's sad to see a some getting flamed or kicked because he made a tower or a fire archer when he obvisouly was new and didn't know any better.
Right now the game is for the loyal and bitter and who have played thousands of games and don't ljust eave for the next hype, so if you play it you belong to mankind's special 1-2%.

Anyway, feedback and suggestion always welcome. Right now it's actually small so i can answer anyone. :)

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Re: Civilization Wars: Map Development

Postby I_kill_satan » Thu May 21, 2015 7:57 am

That was a good suggestion to ban pull if we talk about current map. But it is just semi-decision, if we want to decide it for good, it should be programming fix.

Ye that was a another alrdy mentioned suggestion about pull - make ancient worker and wonder builder sleep 15 seconds after they cross first line check point, and when they cross it again if they go back make them also sleep 15 seconds. Yes this nerf some early game strategies like mid/bot-towering or camping, but it should prevent pulling forever. And when kciv players coming to ent, they are ready to use pull but they will have not any chance to do it, and it will not needed to ban them.

Rule about pulling will be needed anyway but early game pulling wich is the main problem will be impossible.

When i told about building towers, i mean build early mid tower and pull near it, i didnt mean a possibility to building towers for workers.

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Re: Civilization Wars: Map Development

Postby RaptorXI » Thu May 21, 2015 9:38 am

When there is an issue that can't be fixed by whatever mapmaking skills, then i like it better to make a rule and ban the guys who can't keep rules, than sacrificing strategies, although not everyone likes them.
Pulling doesn't work the same for building a tower by the way: AI attacks structures like a tower, the Great Wall or Maginot first, then workers.

What do you think of the first beta? Is it more balanced than the final version?

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Re: Civilization Wars: Map Development

Postby I_kill_satan » Fri May 22, 2015 1:42 pm

Please add change list on the first post of this topic for everyone could see changes.

Regarding pulling, its not a issue wich strategies anyone likes or not. Maybe lets ask pro players wat they think about programming worker's dream in attemp to decide early game pull issue vs changing in opening strategies.


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