malfs/abnormalities balance ideas

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malfs/abnormalities balance ideas

Postby oxoDus » Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:35 pm

strong against lvls 1,3,4,5,6,7,8,10,arena
weak against lvls 2,9
+ they are more useful than any other yolo unit after lvl 10

(If ent bot would have tower win rates, malfs would be the highest for sure)

2 concerns:
1) They hold lvls 1,3,4,5,6,7,8,10 with low value vs sends.
2) They still win arenas and bosses with low value.

Got 2 balance ideas:
1) increase malformation price to 100g (at the moment it's the the most healthy unupgraded unit per gold 560hp/95g=5.89, to compare with other tank towers e.g. halfbreed 1005hp/195g=5.15, minotaur 1465hp/275g=5.33, lord of death+summon 1695hp/300g=5.65 etc.
or
2) adjust abnormalitys venom sac ability to greatly diminish if it needs to chase the target. (This would still make the tower effective , but it would need to have atleast 1 ally tower to tank for abnormalitys bugs to effectively terminate their targets). (this fix should balance lvl10 and arenas, so they don't just die out and kill everything.)

What do you think? Do you agree that the malf is the strongest tower to start with at the moment or not?

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Re: malfs/abnormalities balance ideas

Postby MudMan » Sat Jan 27, 2018 4:16 pm

completely disagree, its a mediocre tower that can easily go to shit if ur not a good player, and even if you are, its really not the best.

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Re: malfs/abnormalities balance ideas

Postby Hakuna » Sun Jan 28, 2018 3:05 pm

Except in the cases where the other team from the abnormalities has huge value, the abnormalities are a free arena win, which seems kinda op. The only other units I consider similar are Hades, Blaster (sometimes), and Hydra, but those are significantly trickier to pull off correctly than malfs which is a build about as basic as aquas.

As to whether they are too strong or not, I think the problem is that they were tweaked and aren't as OP late game as they used to be, but are still quite strong in the first 15 or so waves which is when most LTDMega games are decided.

They already do a lot worse when they have to chase the enemies though, don't they? With the exception of extremely slow moving enemies like bosses it seems to cut their damage like in half. Am I correct on this?
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Re: malfs/abnormalities balance ideas

Postby oxoDus » Sun Jan 28, 2018 4:42 pm

You misjudge the tower as you comment based on 4v4 games where 1 or 2 players having them does not have a such huge impact.
Imagine playing agaisnt 4 malfs or more simplier 1v1 game.
Malf is the only tower which is impossible to beat in a 1v1 game, unless of course malf player forgets to build towers or go afk for few rounds.
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Re: malfs/abnormalities balance ideas

Postby Hakuna » Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:25 am

That is a good point.

Still isn't 4v4 the primary game mode, and what the game is balanced for? Balancing for 1v1 seems strange to me as I would think many things are very different there.

Doesn't change that you make a good point.
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Re: malfs/abnormalities balance ideas

Postby oxoDus » Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:23 am

MudMan wrote:completely disagree, its a mediocre tower that can easily go to shit if ur not a good player, and even if you are, its really not the best.

As you disagree can you provide better towers to start with please so we can discuss.
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Re: malfs/abnormalities balance ideas

Postby MudMan » Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:46 pm

oxoDus wrote:
MudMan wrote:completely disagree, its a mediocre tower that can easily go to shit if ur not a good player, and even if you are, its really not the best.

As you disagree can you provide better towers to start with please so we can discuss.


engi/ea/blaster/ygg/aqua/almost any mix with warlocks or revs or egg sack or polar or tot/sea giant or phantom.. i mean theres a billion of them...
underbuilt malf cant hold much in mid, and overbuilt malf cant catch leaks at mid because best case scenario u'll ALMOST hold ur lane on round 7 vs send
even if you have 4 upped malfs which is ~1200 value , u still wont be holding ur own lane let alone ur team's leak.
How about you tell me some "imbalanced" strengths and points that u think malfs hold ?? lol

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Re: malfs/abnormalities balance ideas

Postby HodoR_ » Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:15 pm

oxoDus wrote:Malf is the only tower which is impossible to beat in a 1v1 game

Wrong. One thing I've learned from 1v1 is building / massing solely one armor-type unit = 100% loss if the other guy isn't a nub.

I've beat Malfs before and after the update, just gotta be smart with your sends.
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Re: malfs/abnormalities balance ideas

Postby nicolai123 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:30 pm

malf isn't even that good on 10... with enough sends the purple shit can't even kill all the bosses

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Re: malfs/abnormalities balance ideas

Postby oxoDus » Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:48 pm

@Mudman : if I'm correct your point is that malf is not a good mid holding tower.
I agree that malf is not a good mid holding tower. Is it better then any other yolo tower? I believe it is. You have mentioned many combos which might be better than malf tower, but why bother with all the combos and possible fail with it when you can build just 1 tower and get same/better results?
(hold lvl10, win arena and have great income)

@HodoR_ : only lvls malf is weak is lvl 2 and lvl 9 you really have to be super smart to know that enemy has malf and send on those lvls. anyways even if you do that, it takes the advantage back at lvl 10 and arena. getting lead prior to lvl 11 is all you need to win. And yes I have beaten malfs too, but in like 1 out of 10 games against them(that 1 game probably monkey has played wc3).

@nicolai123 : I like how you said "with enough sends can't even kill ALL the bosses" most towers if not all with enough sends can't kill a single boss mate.
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Re: malfs/abnormalities balance ideas

Postby Jabba41 » Tue Jan 30, 2018 4:45 am

provide replays... to back up your claims that's malf is unbeatable
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Re: malfs/abnormalities balance ideas

Postby oxoDus » Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:38 am

EDIT: removed replay.
Last edited by oxoDus on Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: malfs/abnormalities balance ideas

Postby oxoDus » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:56 am

This is me as a malf player. Please explain how would you beat me in this game?
Attachments
me as a malf.w3g
(265.94 KiB) Downloaded 8 times
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Re: malfs/abnormalities balance ideas

Postby HodoR_ » Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:34 pm

@oxoDus I do get your point, malfs is quite strong (cost vs efficiency) even after the nerf. In your case and in mine it's even harder because we play 1v1 (You are Japeneseninja I suppose? Bong0 here)

One thing I've noticed : Malfs bugs go towards the summons first (furbs, bo, wtv.) most of the time I've played them. My belief was that if I send against a player that has malfs I would mass a bunch of archers and hope the bugs gets wasted on these before the creeps. That would imply that they (archers) didn't get killed before your malfs dies of course.

Would have to test it again to be sure?

I'm pretty sure the only way to counter malfs is late game, 15 + or use this tactic.
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Re: malfs/abnormalities balance ideas

Postby oxoDus » Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:04 am

Yo Bong0, yes I'm using alias JapaneseNinja.
I've removed my 1st replay as I can clearly see that you still have thoughts like "It can be beaten late game, 15+" also your theory about spamming bowmen is worthless in the map where you can't see the enemy towers.
Just watch my replay "me as a malf". Opponent had a perfect start, 46gold lead at lvl3. Very good skip send on 14. Yet he never had a chance to win the match. Until somebody provides atleast one valid strategy on how to beat malf in the provided replay, I will not discuss anymore. I personally can't think of any strategy as malf has no weaknesses, but then again this is why I made this forum post in the first place to discuss "how the tower can be balanced", not to discuss "if the tower needs balance"(which I thought was obvious).
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