Copycat units -> Need rework!

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Hakuna
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Re: Copycat units -> Need rework!

Postby Hakuna » Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:00 am

gloom wrote:While these units are pretty similar in a lot of cases, i don't think it's necessarily something bad. Given the only played mods involve random units, having different units serving the same purpose probably leads to more balanced games. This may actually be the path to balancing completely useless units (or almost useless): correcting their stats/abilities towards currently played units, in order for them finding some place in the current meta.


Well so to make an extreme example, if there was just one tower you could build then the game would be perfectly "balanced". Each amount of diversity you add to the game adds to the imbalance, since in order for two things to actually be different, they need to have different strengths and weaknesses. What makes it work is that the players don't choose what towers they get so everyone has an equal chance of having an "imbalanced" roll.

Personally I think that the goal should be to increase diversity not decrease it. More choices - and by extension, more meaningful choices, not just raider vs gateguard - makes the game feel fresh each time.

This is one issue I take with Hellhalt. I really like the quality of development the map has; it looks good, it runs smooth, it allows for very aesthetically pleasing builds, but ultimately every build is super similar. You spam a bunch of t1 units, upgrade a few, get some OP dps unit in the back and spam auras. There isn't much that changes from the small amount I've played.

In Mega on the other hand and even more so in 1200+, there are hundreds of viable builds, which is insane considering there are only 90 base towers. Being able to effectively use nearly every tower in the game for either a YOLO, Suicide, Holder or Mix to me shows incredible amount of balance. Now obviously not every build is going to be optimal, and there are some units that just don't cut it to be built hardly at all, but even still nearly every unit can have a decent situation where it is worth building.

For me, taking what are very similar units and making them less similar allows the game to flex its already very strong diversity muscles and provide even more new strategies.

A patch that introduces a new dynamic to a unit always breathes new life into the meta at least for a couple of days while people figure out how the new unit works, whereas if there were patches that were just like "reworked Tempest to be a similar unit to Void Dragons", there would be almost no reason to play around and see how good it was since you already have an idea of what Void Dragons are like.
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Re: Copycat units -> Need rework!

Postby Qvist » Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:22 am

Hakuna wrote:
Qvist wrote:Never usefull to upgrade them so the point of them are just to be meat frontliners.


Just to be clear; you only consider Guardians of Death worth building as meat shields, but the Death Dragon upgrade is not worth it under any circumstances?


No and Im sorry to tell you this but we had the same discussion about these units 4 years ago nothing has changed?
Dragons are expensive and latelategame units, first of all all dragons need atleast a troll for the attackspeed buff (copter too maybe)

But the main problem is very clear, you get most out of the unit if you build 2 grounded units than upgrading them to a dragon from level 1-31.

There are 1 or 2 levels where you could argue its better to have dragons, 24 and 28. But the fact is they not even close to be top tier units so dont build them.

And to this discussion its very hard to change or balance them for the game - why?
They not bad units they tier 6 units after all and they can do well most levels WITHOUT the ohter team summonings.

But when the other team send kraken, demon warlocks they completely destroy deathdragons in less that a second. SO you wasted almost your entire value which dies very fast too a lock. Problematic and this is the same case for many many units in the game.

Why is hades so good? Why is hydra so good? Because they simply dont care about demon krakens locks before the wave creeps are dead in most cases.


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