Av1on abuses his power.

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aimskjs
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Av1on abuses his power.

Postby aimskjs » Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:44 pm

Av1on and I have an issue from my suggestion
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=126199

He removed my reply more than 3times because my reply is perfectly providing the evidence of that he is wrong about bear only strategy.
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=126451
The reason he banned me is I played jugg with rad and just walked around.

Av1oN wrote:Hardly. If anything, a sylla-bear only is guilty of a couple of KS's due to dagon being a commonly used item. Other than that, it's actually the opposite. Any teammate automatically can just take the gold since bear's only source of damage is a slow DPS (Radi).


I used my rad as a slow DPS as what Av1on said.

Av1oN wrote:Going to also say that radi bear, as stated, holds a lot of tanking potential. For a team to even focus a bear in team fight is damage being absorbed to a unit that does nothing but feed a couple hundred gold. Not only that, but if the bear is being utilized as such and not just going full-flank, BM can easily kill off anything that's targeting such. To say that the bear holds nothing but a grief-like spot (ks, stealing gold, no effectiveness) is just silly honestly. It's still a 6 slot capable tanking unit with fast move-speed and a default mana pool.


My jugg has a 6 slot capable tanking unit with my healing ward with fast move-speed with travel boots and a default mana pool as what Av1on said

Av1oN wrote:If the underlying argument is banning player A for refusing to defend the base, then this suggestion is easily archived as it's already against the rules. However, and as it's been going on, if we're arguing the bear-only strat being disallowed on ENT then that's why we are continuing. And again to make my point more clear - The bear-only strategy is integrating any potential you have as a hero into your bear and therefor using that unit and producing all items on-to, that unit. Which also means, that unit is practically you and therefor, that unit is required to defend the base, help push and overall contribute to the team and if that unit is not doing so, that unit is against the rules.


I did not refuse defencing base. I was in every fight where scourge is pushing which isn't against rule. And I was going to make necrobook and blademail after heart which is integrating and any potential I have as a hero into my hero and there for using that my jugg and producing all items on-to (necrobook and blademail that i couldn't finish). I used my rad jugg to help push and overall contribute to the team just exactly like what bear only does.

Av1oN wrote:The strategy/method is not the issue here, it's merely just a mix of words at this point. To say the bear doesn't hold enough contributing factors to the team is like saying any hero that falls behind doesn't hold enough factors. My responses are generic because if we're speaking to the game as an entirety and not specific views like such in an eyes of a decent player or an innovative one, the bear honestly holds no real difference to a hero and therefor, as I've been saying, to leave it the way it is.


I was just falls behind doesn't hold enough factors with exactly same play of bear only.

Av1oN wrote:I am trying to discuss, in yes a very generic and rule-relating sense, that the bear only strat can either work or it can't. In this case, I'm to believe that pros outweigh the cons if I'm being honest. It's just unnecessary to start to hammering down on unique strategies simply because of (reference; OP) a bad game experience.


Av1on just hammer down on unique strategies simply. I just copied bear only strategy on my jugg which can be considered as a unique strategy base on what Av1on said.

Av1oN wrote:What is the preferred alternative? If a sylla and his bear are both equipped and die whilst trying to defend how is that different from the bear alone trying to defend? They both put in the same effort. If the bear dies and the sylla with no items, summon on cd and 5-10 levels below everyone else walks out into a team of 5 pushing a rax, what is there to benefit then? It's just another death and it's delaying the possibility of the bear respawning. The only difference to be said here is the potential outcome but again, speaking in a rule-sense, if player x defends with team and it's unsuccessful, then oh well. If player x doesn't defend, they are in violation of rules because then yes, player x did not participate and initially let his team die. Same thing to be said if player x was a sole bear player.


If a jugg die with common item and attack a hero and die whilst trying to defend how is that different from the jugg with radiance not attack unit just exactly same as bear alone trying to defend? this is the question based on what Av1on said.

Av1oN wrote:
Av1oN wrote:
aimskjs wrote:Bear with rad can't defend base which mean this is against rule.

Bear with rad + other items, with his team, can definitely assist in defending the base..? Not sure what you're trying to say here.


I had rad on my jugg and used my healing ward that I did more than just rad on bear did definitely assist in defending the base as what Av1on said.

Av1oN wrote:
aimskjs wrote:the best(<bear? I guess) DOESN'T holds no real difference to a hero no matter what.

How so? It has 6 slots at it's disposal, is given 2700hp and has a relatively fast movespeed. Care to elaborate?


My jugg has 6 slots at its disposal and I made travel boots for fast movespeed and was making heart for hp. Bear only can't attack unit that Av1on knows and my jugg did same thing.

Av1oN wrote:
aimskjs wrote:Our focus isn't the comparison but we need to explain why using bear only should be considered as afk greifing with comparison of othe hero and strategy.

How is it considered afk griefing when you're actively pressuring lanes and harassing lower-health heroes/potentially killing them with your bear?


I did not afk griefing and used my hero to push lane bot and top as you can see replay. Also my rad killed silencer at top river just same as what bear only does.

Av1oN wrote:
aimskjs wrote:It is not just a bad game experience. It is literally 4v5 outnumbered game without leaver gold. All lanes are pushing by bear. Well if bear can take all cs with rad, it would be nice, but u know that that rad doesn't damage enough to take all cs from the lane. If you are lucky, you will take 50% or bit more than 50% of cs at lane (if you are unlucky its under 30% of cs) which means we waste of farm.

Not sure how you based that analysis, but a bear with rad can cs pretty well in lane pressuring.


Av1on just need to watch replay and how many cs I missed without attack and just used rad for it.

Av1oN wrote:
aimskjs wrote:Even if hero and bear both die while defending, sylla does more usefull in fight.

Not saying it didn't. We're not arguing performance, we are stating that a bear is perfectly capable of defending period.


We were not arguing performance but he banned me for my poor performance.

In conclusion, Av1on can't ban me for my unique strategy with jugg copied bear only strategy based on what he said. Also, Av1on shouldn't remove my replies. I just played a jugg like that on purpose to give our community to show how retarded you play with rad and not attack a single unit entire game. Any staff shouldn't remove the reply unless it is very violate. If Av1on want to ban me for jugg with rad and walk around without attack, please start ban bear only with rad without attack. You can't say bear can't attack because bear can attack if hero is nearby. And Av1on need to keep his word not to ban for new strategies as long as rad does slow DPS and make assists. If any other mod still want to ban both bear only and my new strategy with jugg, I will take ban because it is what i want to do ban use bear only which make team feel 4v5 entire game. but Av1on can't ban me. Please restore my replies on my suggestion. Everyone has right to see a sample and how Av1on judge me when he doesn't ban bear only.
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Brando (Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:29 am)

EdgeOfChaos

Re: Av1on abuses his power.

Postby EdgeOfChaos » Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:04 am

I just played a jugg like that on purpose to give our community to show how retarded you play with rad and not attack a single unit entire game.


Wait, are you actually admitting to trolling on purpose in the same thread where you complain about being banned?!

That's a bold move! Let's see if it pays off.

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Re: Av1on abuses his power.

Postby aimskjs » Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:14 am

EdgeOfChaos wrote:
I just played a jugg like that on purpose to give our community to show how retarded you play with rad and not attack a single unit entire game.


Wait, are you actually admitting to trolling on purpose in the same thread where you complain about being banned?!

That's a bold move! Let's see if it pays off.


Im not trolling. Im admitting I made bad decision on purpose to choose the stratedy exactly same as bear only even thought i am on oppiste to the strategy. I wanted to show ppl what will happen with it. And i believe this strategy wont be banned unless bear only doesnt get banned. I am serously not trolling and just want to prove

EdgeOfChaos

Re: Av1on abuses his power.

Postby EdgeOfChaos » Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:28 am

Sorry for double posting - just can't edit my last one now.

I think you're missing something important here, which is that moderators have discretion. This means that not every single case of someone buying Radiance on Sylla will be the same. Moderators take into account WHY the user did something. If the user does a certain build in good faith, trying to win the game, then they're not going to get banned for it.

What you did was absolutely not good faith. It was messing around and ruining games because you were salty about your complaint getting denied.
(11:06 / All) LeaveMeAlone: can u
(11:08 / All) LeaveMeAlone: leave me alone
(11:13 / All) LeaveMeAlone: im making rad and wont attack unit
(11:33 / All) LeaveMeAlone: mod said its not banable for sylla


Did you miss the part where everyone said that this build will be judged case by case? This means that it is bannable, but not every single time it's done.

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Re: Av1on abuses his power.

Postby Necromancer22 » Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:11 am

I think that the method aims used to try and prove his point was unnecessary, but I also think that a 5 day ban is complete overkill for what he did. I believe that he should be given a warning to not try and prove his point in this way, instead of an immediate ban. Just because he is skilled enough to dumb his play down to an equal level as a lower skilled player going rad bear does not mean he should be immediately punished. He is a valuable member to the community and his original opinion on Syllabear DOES hold weight. I believe that he already posted an apology towards his teammates that game, and that should be enough for this type of a one time act.

It would be nice for a moderator who is both a strong dota player and AGREES with aims' original argument on rad bear to analyze this ban. I think that my above comment would be similar to their thoughts on this situation.

Thankyou.

aimskjs
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Re: Av1on abuses his power.

Postby aimskjs » Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:29 am

EdgeOfChaos wrote:Sorry for double posting - just can't edit my last one now.

I think you're missing something important here, which is that moderators have discretion. This means that not every single case of someone buying Radiance on Sylla will be the same. Moderators take into account WHY the user did something. If the user does a certain build in good faith, trying to win the game, then they're not going to get banned for it.

What you did was absolutely not good faith. It was messing around and ruining games because you were salty about your complaint getting denied.
(11:06 / All) LeaveMeAlone: can u
(11:08 / All) LeaveMeAlone: leave me alone
(11:13 / All) LeaveMeAlone: im making rad and wont attack unit
(11:33 / All) LeaveMeAlone: mod said its not banable for sylla


Did you miss the part where everyone said that this build will be judged case by case? This means that it is bannable, but not every single time it's done.


How is case by case when bear only build and jugg with rad both doesn't attack any unit and amount of damage with rad is exactly same. However, my jugg had healing ward for team which bear can't (bear can just walk around and no attack and no skill for team unless he uses item such as necrobook and dagon). My jugg made exactly same effort as what bear does. If you are going to talk about skill which i didn't use beside fury and healing ward (only thing that I didn't use is omni slash), I would say sylla doesn't use his own skill except Rabid (bear has siege attack and entange that are OP as fuck).

Only thing that I missed an important thing (well, I didn't miss I knew it and I would see how it will goes) that all judgement is up to moderators with combined of rule and his opinions. Yeah sure moderators are human and they make decision by rule but also mixed with his own opinion. There is many elite dota players believe that bear only with rad and walk around should be banned and they wouldn't do in their own game because it is kind of game ruin and less possible to win a game. As what Av1on said in my ban appeal, I am not new to dota and I know how I fuck around it. I posted suggestion of sylla strategy because I know it just fuck around the game in general and need to be banned in my opinion. However, I just did it (I'm not seriously trying to troll but just trying to show Av1on why it should be banned with sylla) because he said bear only with rad does something in lane and do something assists in fight even thought rad does slowly DPS.
Hardly. If anything, a sylla-bear only is guilty of a couple of KS's due to dagon being a commonly used item. Other than that, it's actually the opposite. Any teammate automatically can just take the gold since bear's only source of damage is a slow DPS (Radi).
Running marathons is a very poor term to be used here honestly. One of radi bear's most advantaging attributes is being able to run fast in the mid-early and harass. It's one of the main reasons why the strat is even used. While your team is pushing two lanes, radi bear can be pushing one to both towers if done right. Not only that but pretty much any squishtown agil/intel is going to be running for their lives hoping radi doesn't kill them which in most cases; it does.

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Re: Av1on abuses his power.

Postby supersexyy » Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:56 am

You're gonna look back on this complaint in 3 years and have 3 realisations.
1. I was making a mountain out of a mole hill
2. I was wrong
3. That was embarrassing
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matdas (Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:26 am)
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Re: Av1on abuses his power.

Postby aimskjs » Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:57 am

My complaint was a bit out of point. The point I actually wanted to say is that Av1on deleted many replies (not just my replies, there was more than 3 players tried to reply). I don't know if we can restore it. I believe the forum is our official public communication where we are free to talk and discuss without toxic language and troll. I have seen many replies before it was deleted (even I do not remember what exactly ppl trying to say but it wasn't rude). I remember it was zeratul, Sylvanas Zam and me (not sure if it was more)

One thing bear-only syllas always seem to overlook is that the rest of their team always has to suffer because of their "strategy". In any team fight, the bear is always going to be the final priority of the other team, which puts extra pressure on the non-fountain heroes of the team and always ensures the bear is going to be the last one left to kill any remaining low health enemy heroes, whether the fight was won or loss. It's a lot like playing with a techies, except you make the decision to let your team eat shit while you frolic around the map with your bear even though you had the choice not to. The way they see it, if their team wins, solo bear works. If they lose, team sucked and fed (unlike them), so solo bear works. There's just no reasoning with those guys.

So you gonna delete this one too av1on?


This is what Sylvanas said and only one he didn't deleted. He asked av1on if av1on gonna delete his reply.

Forget about my jugg with rad game. I know it wouldn't be nice for any of us and just tried to give a sample to Av1on and wanted to see how he is going to punish compare to bear only strategy. I already admited to hash I went too far and wont do it again because i know its not good before game started when i believe bear only strategy should be considered as a afk greifing and banned. That's why i explained and apologized to players in my game from lobby and game. Jugg with rad is sort of troll same as what I believe that bear only is a sort of troll.

Again, my point is that I want Av1on not to delete any reply unless it is just troll or toxic.

p.s. if Avion think i replied with troll, ok fine but he needs to explain why he deleted sylavanas's zam's and zeratul's.
Im not asking ent staff to remove his power. I am asking him not to delete like that especially when it is against your opinion because it could be looks like you are taking it personally in the situation.

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Re: Av1on abuses his power.

Postby Quentin » Tue Apr 03, 2018 8:26 am

Not sure if you are dumb or trolling.

What is the point of your complaint? Your ban appeal has been approved: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=126469
You admitted in your ban appeal that you did something wrong.
You even linked ENT rules that you have broken.
And now you are claiming to be banned unfairly? It does not make any sense whatsoever.

You even admitted in the game that you should be banned:
(29:03 / Allied) LeaveMeAlone: u can report me if u want i will take ban and tell admin to ban use bear

I'll assume you are serious about this complaint so I'll explain it simply for you:
1) Did you read the complaint rules? "Complaints may no longer be used as a replacement of the PM or for personal issues. Take the complaints serious or you will receive a warning/temporary forum ban for abusing the opportunity."
2) Did you PM him first in order to understand it better?
3) Did you read what av1on said in your first ban appeal?
4) Did you understand that your suggestion has already been denied and what you are doing is pointless?

It is not because 2 situations are similar, that they must be dealt similarly.

For example, imagine a scenario where:
1) A beginner dota player picks bara and feeds 0-15-0 because it is his first game.
2) An experienced dota player picks bara and feeds on purpose 0-15-0 because he wants his friend on the opposite team to win.

Of course, they both are the same situations. The players picked the same hero and failed the game ... The scores are identical...
But only the second one should be banned because ENT is a noob-friendly environment and beginners are allowed to play.

You refused to play the game on purpose by refusing to use your abilities (attacks, spells, ...). And you even admitted in the chatlog that you ruined the game on purpose. There is no doubt that you should have been banned for that. You even admitted it several times.

Now, should a bear only radiance be banned? Well, it depends on the situations, the games, and what the players does. If he does it like you to troll on purpose, and afk farm wood all game, yes, he can be reported and banned. But if he uses his bear to push lanes / help team to win / etc. he should not be banned ...

In my opinion, the following actions should be undertaken:
- This complaint should be denied as explained above.
- Your ban should be increased by several days because you are trying to troll on purpose and waste moderators time.
- You should be temporarily forum banned for abusing the complaint system (you filled a complaint against someone when you admitted at least 3 times that he banned you for a good reason: in this thread, in the game and the appeal).

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Re: Av1on abuses his power.

Postby Haunt » Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:46 am

@aimskjs The posts Av1oN removed were either completely spam or did not contribute at all to your suggestion. The whole topic was just full of drama and unnecessary bs. As for your suggestion and why it was denied, read Jabba's reply.

Since you did break the rules (you admitted this yourself) and no moderator has done nothing wrong, I'm going to deny this. Stop trolling around, please.

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