Ban Appeals

Processed complaints will be moved here.

Moderator: Oversight Staff

User avatar
Leastjuh
Armored Tree
Posts: 66
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:21 pm
Location: Belgium
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 2 times

Ban Appeals

Postby Leastjuh » Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:07 pm

Hello ,

First of all English is not my main language so if this is threatening or people get offend by this. Then please delete this topic and answer me on Discord.

Because that is not the point of the topic. I just want a reasonable talk about what i feel is going on and why i feel bad about what happens today by one of your staff members. Also this is not a appeal or anything to reduce time of my ban. I will sit out the remain of my time and will come back after the time is served.

Topic in question can be found here.

First a little explanation who i am and what i am as a person. I am from Belgium. I joined ent around 2013. I played a lot of Island Defense in the beginning and started to find other games like castle fight and LTD. Lately i am only playing LTD on ENT. I only play under username Leastjuh never used other accounts or stuff. Until today i had 1 ban in history not counting auto bans because of internet drops.

I have a very high justice feeling. So i really want to find out why i am getting punished and for what exact reason. If it is right i will accept the punishment. If not i will fight against it. Lucky for us in Europe you are proven insistent until proven otherwise. I know in america you are found guilty until proven otherwise. Witch i find a very wrong system but that is not for debate here.

In this particular BRQ there was very minion information. it says
he focus 1st on full hp bosses, to lose all heals
wtich first of all was a lie there was 2 occurrence where there was not focused on the highest boss (see appeal for detail information) and there was only 2 heals left not 4 and he closes with a smiling emo. So i my first thought was okay this is BRQ over grief of a loss. The mod in question only provide with
"Banned 4 days."
wich in my eyes is okay punishment if proven guilty for TK.

Lets go in deep what my understanding is about Team-killing. Team-killing is with knowledge of your own doings in making your team lose the game. So preventing attacks for boss/selling all your units/not cooperating with your team members.

So when i saw this BRQ and BAN pop up on the game. I wasn't aware yet what i did wrong. So i downloaded the replay and look into it. Then i made a appeal to get an understanding what i did wrong there? and to tell my side of the story. Witch is a appeal is basically in justice. "Appeal : to take a case one has lost to a higher court etc; to ask (a referee, judge etc) for a new decision: “He appealed against a three-year sentence.”".

So i asked for other mod to check this out. So i can better understand the vision of why i got banned in first place.

That was my first mistake. Asking other mod to look into the case....
And what reason do you want to involve a 2nd mod that can't be settled between us exactly?


Form that point if he has a mind-set that i thought his ruling was wrong and he think that i am trying to put him in a bad daylight. That was not the case at all. I was just trying to figure out what i did wrong and say my perspective of how i feel this game was going/ended and it was not that i didn't do my research and just start typing i watched the replay myself. yes there was bad king control on my part but i feel and know that it was not with dark intent. Like i said to him when i go to a doctor and he says that i needed surgery and i have a feeling that he maybe was quick on his judgement am going to see a second doctor to ask for his opinion. That was the case aswell this time.

So why is it consider high Treason if you ask for 2nd mod his opinion on a BRQ in a appeal? should it not be normal for an appeal to be judge by someone else? i am not the only one asking this. There is an other brq where an other person ask for it.
But shouldn't it be another moderator to treat our appeal ? cause it's kind of illogical that it is u who banned us that review our appeal cause the principle of an appeal is to have a second opinion from another admin right? how can u review our request if you are already persuade that we deserve it ?


Like i said this is not a post against someone particular this is just how i feel i was wrongfully done and trying to find out how you think a appeal and brq works. i am happy to discuss this. If i am wrong please tell me and explain. Just dont tell me you are wrong an close the case because i loved the community but this feeling i had today so bad and i really hope this was one time and we can get one for the next 5 years or so.

2nd Mistake i made was:

But if you still dont see it like this i would sit out the remain of the days. But every little mistake a player makes in ordering on kills. I will report from now and we will break the community by doing this


This was not a threat to try destroy the community or anything what i meant with that was if all brq get threaten lightly and there can be just no more bad play or just simple mistakes then we will have a community all sitting out bans and nobody playing anymore. If we are going to report all little mistakes / poor plays . At this moment the community is getting smaller/smaller each day look in how numbers of games are going and how much time some lobby's take. So that was the point i was trying to make.

I hope nobody got offend or anyway and i hope we can discuss this properly and to see you all in few days after i served my time. Please contact me on discord if something is not clear or you feel offend in any kind of way?
"The enemies cannot destroy the king who has at his service the respect and friendship of the wise men who can find fault, disagree, and correct those mistakes. "

User avatar
Kappa
Protector of Nature
Posts: 2026
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:07 am
Location: USA
Has thanked: 14 times
Been thanked: 84 times

Re: Ban Appeals

Postby Kappa » Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:36 am

When it comes to bans regarding king juggling, there is always a level of subjectivity to them. Moderators have the challenge of judging whether the player is new, made a mistake or intentionally juggling to hurt their own team. Juggling and teamkill go hand and hand due to the nature of the offense - King juggling causes your own team to suffer and sometimes lose entirely. In this situation, I believe the ban is valid looking at the very poor king control along with the number of LTD game played by the violator. I don't find any issue with the ban as I would have ruled the same as Merex here. Furthermore, often little information from the banning moderator, other than the violation and ban duration, is given on the ban request post and the rest is left to be discussed in the appeal section.

However, I do feel the appeal was handled inappropriately by Merex.

Leastjuh wrote:But i would like a 2nd opion of other mod.


Merex wrote:And what reason do you want to involve a 2nd mod that can't be settled between us exactly?


I believe this was the wrong response as the violator has the right to ask for a second opinion on their appeal. Merex should've simply given his point of view and let another moderator review and handle the appeal from this point on. There was no reason to be combative and deny the appeal yourself without a second review in this situation as the violators ban history and appeal did not warrant it. This appeal also would've been the time to further explore whether this was accidental or not.

In conclusion:
1) The ban is valid
2) The appeal was handled incorrectly

Note: Some appeals are denied by single moderators for a variety of reasons and they are valid. However, I do not see any of these reasons here.

User avatar
Leastjuh
Armored Tree
Posts: 66
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:21 pm
Location: Belgium
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Ban Appeals

Postby Leastjuh » Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:51 pm

@Kappa,

It was not a complained against that the ban was not valid or not. just for the appealing and asking for a second insights and the reaction on it. No hard feeling against anyone and i appreciated the work merex is doing in all those brq.
"The enemies cannot destroy the king who has at his service the respect and friendship of the wise men who can find fault, disagree, and correct those mistakes. "

User avatar
Quetra
Protector of Nature
Posts: 4775
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2014 7:11 pm
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 49 times

Re: Ban Appeals

Postby Quetra » Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:07 pm

I agree with Kappa's assessment here. The appeal should have been left to be dealt with by another moderator and there was no need to take it further once his view was given.

The issue has been brought up with Merex and he admitted his mistake. It shouldn't happen again, but if it does we will take the matter further.

But shouldn't it be another moderator to treat our appeal ? cause it's kind of illogical that it is u who banned us that review our appeal cause the principle of an appeal is to have a second opinion from another admin right? how can u review our request if you are already persuade that we deserve it ?


The moderator that made the ban request deals with the appeal for the simple reason that it saves a significant amount of time, since they are already familiar with the case. Most of the time there is no issue since the case is simple: e.g a person was afk. If we had a larger and more active moderation team, it would definitely be preferable to have a 2nd moderator on every appeal to re review the case. As it is however, it already takes a long time in some cases to get to appeals and the ban requests often have a large backlog. So we allow the appealer to request a 2nd opinion if there's ambiguity in the case.

Processing.


Return to “Processed Cases”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests