Avion admin abuse

00RazorJake00 · Postby **00RazorJake00** » Fri Sep 04, 2015 3:34 pm

Hello there,

My name is Jake and I have played Warcraft 3 for almost a decade now. After a short break, I recently came back within the last two months and have noticed that ENT have more or less over-taken the custom game area with all your bots. One game I liked to play was Island Defense, and so I have started getting back into the game. However, I have noticed through many of the times I have played that the admin "Avion" has been trash talking multiple people, calling me in particular a "try hard" and other trash talk for playing the Titan, which in fairness I had little idea as to how to play against the certain scenario I was given. However, after complaining about the trash talk to Avion and questioning why admins should feel like they have the right to trash talk other players, he immediately started seeing that I was talking sense and ignored me. Other players also started to see what I was saying, and started to agree, one of which also stated that they will post a complaint for Avion. However, I simply said something along the lines of "hurry up and kill me because you have three demo's" as I knew I was in for a tough time as I did not play the titan correctly. I immediately got a reaction from Avion saying "admitting to suicide? that's banable.". Later in the game, I was correct, and the other players managed to surround me and kill me. My wind walk down and I had no way of escaping. Just before the game ended, Avion posted a message saying "That was suicide" or something along those lines, and followed up with an immediate Ban. This is simply stupid, unfair and unacceptable. I am new to this forum, and even created this account to simply get some justice, as I am fully aware that justice is a rare thing to come across on the internet. This is not a ban appeal in itself, although I do strongly feel that the ban should be lifted as I was literally playing the game and lost. I apologize in advanced if this is in the wrong section or whatever, but I would like you to take this with serious interest. Thank you for your help.

nabo. · Postby **nabo.** » Fri Sep 04, 2015 3:38 pm

Post game link

00RazorJake00 · Postby **00RazorJake00** » Fri Sep 04, 2015 3:41 pm

Avion admin abusing.w3g: I don't know if I did this correct, but this is the replay of the game. I also apologize for my language, but things like this really get to me because I'm sick of the idea that people think they are immortal with a little bit of power.; (183.32 KiB) Downloaded 44 times

Postby **Merex** » Fri Sep 04, 2015 3:42 pm

I didn't even need to read the rest, just the fact you're stating multiple occurrences when I've only seen you once in Island Defense is a complete lie and the insults/trash talk behind my words hold 0 severity to your gameplay. You are making this seem like being flamed or even slightly insulted by a player playing island defense is hurting you in more ways than imagine, the fact I am an admin here at ENT has nothing to do with what happened that game up until you suicide.

@nabo. https://entgaming.net/findstats.php?id=6427835

00RazorJake00 · Postby **00RazorJake00** » Fri Sep 04, 2015 3:53 pm

Actually I have seen you on numerous occasions, and I can handle being flamed or insulted, but the fact that it was by an admin or moderator is what caused the annoyance in the first place. Tell me, how many people was it that agreed with me in that one game? And if that's one game, how many people would agree with me on a community scale?

Postby **Merex** » Fri Sep 04, 2015 4:00 pm

It was 1 sentence and it wasn't even an insult, sure it wasn't a friendly greeting but that's gaming for you. You were being agreed with because you were commenting throughout the entire game from that point on due to 1 sentence in which you happily freaked out over and besides, how could you entirely trust a community like Island Defense to hold any reliability to their word? It's a game. We all act certain ways. You brought my admin status up almost immediately and cried abuse and started actually insulting me. Tell me who's on the wrong here.

00RazorJake00 · Postby **00RazorJake00** » Fri Sep 04, 2015 4:16 pm

"We all act certain ways"
"You were being agreed with"
"How could you trust the community"

It almost seems like you're aware that you're in the wrong, but there you go. I decided to take note of the fact that you are an admin because moderators and administrators should know better than "the community" as they are the head of the community. How can you expect to produce a fun and nice environment when even those at the top of the chain are being complained about for flaming and trash talk? People agreed with me because they have the same thoughts I do. I even believe at one stage, someone calls ENT "corrupt" and at another stage, someone mentions that the admins are poor, or something along those lines. This is certainly incorrect. In my perspective, ENT is a great community that provides great hosting services and bots. It's just a huge shame that in some games, not all, the atmosphere is poor due to the flaming. It is also a huge shame that in some scenarios, it is those who are looked at for help are the ones causing the negative mood. I have also re-watched the replay many times and still don't understand the ban at the end...?

Postby **Merex** » Fri Sep 04, 2015 4:32 pm

I'm definitely not in the wrong so I'm not entirely certain why you thought that because as a moderator, your duties are only partial for the in-game behavior compared to our actual contribution in enforcing the community and actually keeping it safe from rule violators and maphackers but I'm assuming you didn't think that through during your little session in the game:

(05:59 / All) 00razorjake00: are all admins cunts like you?
(07:17 / All) 00razorjake00: Why are you given a status if you're just a dick?
(09:32 / All) 00razorjake00: That explains why you permanently have a stick up your arse

It's clear that not even as a citizen you can maintain a respectable attitude due to 1 very small outburst. You talk so much about moderators and their lack of communication and yet you're willing to judge their entire capability and process off words? Please do yourself a favor and get a sense of things. So far the only thing I see out of this complaint is that you're qq'ing over everyday conversation and now take it upon yourself to post nothing but minor nonsense to further a very confusing and illogical point on your own enraged perspective on the ENT Administration.

00RazorJake00 · Postby **00RazorJake00** » Fri Sep 04, 2015 4:51 pm

Haha, I completely agree with you in terms of I was out of order. I let my anger get the better of me and I assure you I will try to prevent that again in the future. But you must be completely ignorant if you actually believe that your responsibility as someone high up in a community does not include providing respect or/and help/kindness to everyone in the community. I must say, based on the fact that 3-4 people in that one replay alone don't think that you are a suitable admin, maybe it's time to open your eyes.

Postby **Merex** » Fri Sep 04, 2015 5:05 pm

One person agreed with you on my so called ''unsuited moderating position'' so before you're quick to assume everyone turned against me, have the decency to open your eyes to the replay log yourself:
http://storage.entgaming.net/replay/vie ... 427835.w3g
(If you're including Sat as one of the people who agreed, see the ally chat.)

I'm not ignorant to my in-game duties as a moderator, not at all. I use my powers and my knowledge when it's necessary and just happens to be that I felt like playing a game of Island Defense with one of my friends and sure I was loose a bit with my attitude but the minute you decided to take it seriously, so did I. You want me to open my eyes, I want you to open your eyes, but at the end of the day, the replay log can show all evidence that this is a clear over reaction on your end and that you're basing this off your own assumption on us without having even the slightest knowledge on how much we do for our community. Ignorance +1.

Sat · Postby **Sat** » Fri Sep 04, 2015 5:07 pm

00razorjake00's intentions were not clear to me. What is clear is that he believed the game would be hard from the getgo, that later on it was by all accounts very unlikely he could win, and thirdly that Av1oN was not abusive. From a very long back-and-forth between the two, we can see how both parties believed they were in the right. In my opinion, the evidence isn't clear enough to make a bulletproof case for suicide, and certainly not for admin abuse. Here is the real story without one sided commentary:

Spoiler!

^From that chat we see that Av1oN made a mildly aggressive comment, which got him referred to as a 'cunt' for the rest of the game. So I don't really see any sense in disciplining Av1oN for that... And it is clear that titan believed at some point a demo would kill him, a reasonable expectation in my opinion.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The 'suicide' in question here deals with this:

11:42 - last time titan used windwalk (therefore the 3m cd was not up when titan died, he could not use it)
14:02 - titan begins attacking demo wall
14:03 - dryad hunter begins attacking titan
14:13 - demo summons lv.3 dubs
14:14 - demo summons balth
14:15 - titan finishes killing the wall while under attack from demo hounds, scorpions and dryad hunter
14:15 - titan attacks a hound while being attacked by hounds, scorps, dryad and balth
14:20 - at half health, titan defeats a hound and turns to attack balth (clearly futile)
14:22 - at 958/3000 hp, titan walks away
14:24 - dryad uses roots to hold titan down (titan never used punish this whole game, might not actually know how or not quick enough)
14:27 - titan dies with roots still holding him down

My point here is that titan was playing recklessly and it was clear he was in trouble. He waited way too long to move to the mound to believe he truly wanted to win. However, the game may likely have ended in a similar manner soon after if he had somehow survived.

-edit-
regarding other players who supported titan over Av1oN in this game, I was one of those who appeared to support titan. However, I was actually being very sarcastic. So I can see how I might have contributed to that misunderstanding when I said:

(06:37 / All) Sat: ent corrupt and cunty mod
(07:06 / All) Sat: how patronizing ! !

00RazorJake00 · Postby **00RazorJake00** » Fri Sep 04, 2015 5:31 pm

I'm finished arguing, there's clearly no point in wasting my breath. All that is left to ask is will the ban still be left up or taken down. Either scenario, I would just like to be told.

Lynx · Postby **Lynx** » Fri Sep 04, 2015 5:52 pm

Mods should stop talking to players in a condescending attitude. It's very common and unprofessional.

Sat · Postby **Sat** » Fri Sep 04, 2015 6:04 pm

Lynx wrote:Mods should stop talking to players in a condescending attitude. It's very common and unprofessional.

That should start at the top. We know who I mean.

nabo. · Postby **nabo.** » Fri Sep 04, 2015 6:14 pm

Whether you are a mod or a regular player, communication goes two ways and for one to receive respect from the other, both must show signs of manner.

@00RazorJake00 You should probably choose your wordings more wisely.
@av1on Instead of !ignoring multiple players, as a mod, try to refrain from doing so and handle the situation.

00RazorJake00's actions to suicide seems to be questionable, not solid.

Seems like this was more of a topic to appeal the ban rather than question the mod's competency.

Ban reduced to 6 hours (3 hrs left). Treat this as a warning.

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