BeerLord

[safa]

I was kicked for no real reason because beerlord has no real admin skills but his feelings.

In game i "flamed" which it was not excessive, caps, any of that, and when i was told to stop i did.

I was called racist because i commented on his English because he said "reccoment" < what ever that is.

And apparently i wasn't helping team when i roshed 3 times which gives each player 200g * 3 = 600g * 5 = 3000g for team right there alone. We did a big push and i helped with rax and attempting to kill players, so not sure how i wasn't helping team.

Right before i got kicked i went to go kill another player, seeing that beerlord was feeding 1-5 at one point i knew he would ks, when i approached enemy of course, he stole my kill and i said ofc you ks ect. So no real reason to get kicked didn't even flame to get kicked soo...

Just checked now i am banned, yet i ended game with same assist as beerlord so not sure why im banned for 2 days... just joined game and under reason: there was nothing so im not sure whats going on with your unstable admin but you should probably check it out.

Also id like to add on how much of a hypocrite this guy was saying i was flaming ( which i hardly did but yea) when he typed this...

(19:05 / Allied) BeerLord: why would u be a dick
(19:15 / Allied) BeerLord: why would u be a dick

and all i said was why would you block the creep spawn when im farming sooo yea this doesnt add up to me?

Now he did say this (23:25 / Allied) BeerLord: one more flame and i kick u -----SOOO i stopped the few words i said LOL.

RIght before i was kicked this was spoken after he stole my kill.
(31:25 / Allied) safa: ks
(31:26 / Allied) safa: gj
(31:29 / Allied) safa: howd i know
(31:33 / Allied) safa: its ok tho
(31:36 / Allied) safa: your still negative
(31:36 / Allied) BeerLord: !kick safa
(31:36 / All) BeerLord: safa was kicked by player [BeerLord].
(31:36 / QUIT) safa: Left
(31:45 / Allied) NewOrleans.: ty
(31:47 / Allied) Boralao: good
(31:53 / Allied) Boralao: uselees ursa
(31:57 / Allied) BeerLord: too toxic
(32:00 / Allied) Boralao: y
(32:02 / Allied) Boralao: idiot
(32:15 / Allied) BeerLord: !ban safa

So he flames, his "team mate/friend" flames but im getting banned... pleaselook at this chat i flamed no more then anyone else i could count the few words i said on my hands... ( under 10 ). So again not sure why IM banned for 2 days or why i was kicked for CLEARLY not flaming ^.

[safa]

viewtopic.php?f=24&p=365716#p365716

Ahahaha, i must say, this right here is a joke. it was a 14:19(score) game buddy, now if it was a 57:68(score) game that would be different, lets see you yourself was 4:6:4 .. lets see zeus, aga, refresher and only 4 assist 4 kills? yet i had same assist and only 3 kills less... your buddy jug, 5:2:1 i had 3 more assist and 4 less kills but oh wait he ulted 2 of my assist lol... i dont see where i skew away from all of the other scores.... 1:1:4 was not bad in the game look at the other scores, 1:4:4 thats the same score but 3 deaths more lol 2:6:4 same score 1 kill more but 5 deaths more lol.... Lets face it these are facts^ you just state opinions.... i know im right when i say all of this but BESIDES THIS, You cant name one point where i griefed/ or didnt cooperate.... i pushed i raxed i roshed i team fough and with no real aoe spell ursa can only get so many assist and with a team of people that care about kills i can only get so many kills.... i was i was in 5 fights, beerlord only 4 kills 4 assist? thats a joke in my opinion with the hero you had. You could list every time i flamed beerlord but if you do it next to your little friend or any one else i would have no more in fact probably less flame then them your being so bias right now its not even funny, well it is cuz its such a joke LOL.

You gonna back up why you kicked me? Lets see at the time of the kick i broke not 1 rule didnt flame or anything, and oh yea i was in the middle of a TEAM fight the thing i got banned for lol, really your ban is a joke and your kick is a joke and you shouldnt be admin.

[Nore]

Well, I must say that though you were quite aggressive, this ban does indeed seem unwarranted.. even the kick is probably a stretch. You said nothing truly racist, and you had as many assists as he did. You played a role by killing Rosh, as well. Maybe tone it down a bit in the future, it's just a game and there's no need to get so worked up @safa

@beerlord I would suggest you refrain from such actions, kicking a player in the game is usually a very extreme measure. When I had in-game power, I very rarely kicked players, and if I did, it was for much more than this. I know not all mods are the same, but this was a general rule afaik. You should be able to discern what is acceptable to do and not by now, as you've been mod for a long while. You can always just ignore him; kicking him and then banning him seems very unreasonable in this case. I'm not saying this to be overly critical, I just don't think you had very good judgement in this particular case(probably because it was a bit personal).

[BeerLord]

I appreciate your input @nore, and will re-examine my motive here to see if I was indeed unfair. I too rarely kick in game, but his post does not tell the whole story. So if you want to watch the game and give me your input I would appreciate it. He started the game with "wood niggers". His general tone was offensive and angry, he farmed all game and while we pushed mid to try and rax he continued to farm bottom lane. At level 18 he was 1 and 1. He contributed little, and was quite unpleasant, not just to me but to all of us.

[Merex]

Pretty much siding with Nore here although a couple of things -

Ursa started off the game flaming. The way I see excessive flaming and the rule behind it is just over-all being a general disturbance over the course of the game followed by unnecessary insults and in most extreme cases - racism and so forth. From what's seen in the chatlog, the ursa did flame quite a bit and it wasn't just directed at 1 but the entire team mainly though that's no excuse for the kick especially at the time.

The ban on ''refusing to cooperate'' I'm gonna assume is when they were pushing the mid rax and ursa was pushing the bot lane - however not really an issue seeing as it was successful and ursa did end up assisting/contributing. Following the solo rosh kills for the team.. My honest is opinion is that the refusing to cooperate is invalid only because he wasn't hurting the team but just being a little distant.

Around the time of the kick is where I find it a ''bit'' personal. They were ganking one at the top, Beer (Zeus) uses ulti right before kill thus taking it, ursa calls him out and gets kicked right after followed by the ban. I don't see why that was necessary - though he was, again, distant and aggressive, it wasn't called for.

My final opinion -
1. If he were to have been banned at all for flaming, I would've given him 4h or so after the game and let him appeal it. Again, he was just aggressive and annoying for the most part but was helping the team other ways.
2. Ban on ''refusing to cooperate'' is quite a stretch there. Only 1 instance shows of that nature (see above) and already explained that it didn't really hurt the game.
3. Kick just seemed too personal to me because of the timing + the fact he was actually tanking and cooperating at the time.. I feel like it was unnecessary and should indeed be refrained, as Nore stated.

Also - Yes, I did watch the replay up until he was kicked.

[Nore]

Well, unpleasant or not, that raxing is one instance, and from what I saw he did contribute enough to not be kicked. Yes, his attitude was shitty, but was it enough to be kicked for? That is what I am disputing, as it's obvious at the time that you kicked him that was your reasoning. You just added the other part in afterwards. You even made it clear in the chat what you would be kicking for, and it was nothing to do with cooperating with the team. !ignore is there for a reason; there are far worse people playing that do not get kicked or banned, so there needs to be consistency imo.

Even the instance where you kicked him, the "final flame", he didn't really flame at all; he merely complained. Then you proceeded to kick and ban him, and win the game minutes later. You really couldn't just tolerate or !ignore him for several more minutes after a whole games worth? The measures you took were abusive; it's not to say that you had bad intentions, but you should look at it in hindsight and see that. That's just my opinion though, take it for what it is.

[BeerLord]

Thank you both for inputs. There was more going on here than what was in the chat log. The timing of the ban certainly looked bad, as he had just called me out for a ks. But in reality I waited until then because I didnt want to kick him until I was sure it wouldnt cause my team-mates to lose the game. That is why it happened then, since it was at that point I was sure we had the game won without him.
But none of that is relevant. There is also the issue that I thought he was using maphack. But thats not really relevant either. When I honestly look at why I kicked him, it was really because he was just an asshole, and after doing some 22 dota ban requests yesterday, I think my asshole meter was on hyperdrive. Moving forward, I need to be more in tune with when my patience is running thin, and not let it guide my decisions in game.
Again, I thank you two for your input.

[HazarDous]

Also id like to add on how much of a hypocrite this guy was saying i was flaming

I have to admit I find it rather funny to see you talking about hypocrisy while you literally abuse the trust of every member in this community by using Map hack. However, that doesn't make this complaint any less valid..


I will not elaborate on the review of this game as @Av1on 's review pretty much sums it up. Regardless, I won't bother with the refusal to cooperate reason as it is obviously not why he was kicked, but rather flame.

I should not have to remind you, @BeerLord , that moderators are subject to the same regulations as users when they use the !kick (!votekick for users) function. Those regulations are listed here.

Do not abuse !votekick: its only purpose is to kick game ruinners who violate ENT's rules and negatively impact the game for either or both teams in the game.

It is rather obvious that kicks/votekicks should not be used on players who commit minor offenses such as flaming. Judgement should be used, and only violations that ruin or that negatively impact the game shall result in a kick. Keeping that in mind, the kick on safa was indeed abusive. As a moderator, you should a level of tolerance and self-control above that of players in general. Regarding nore's comments about !ignore, while it is indeed meant to be used in these kind of situations, moderators are asked not to make use of that command for moderation purposes. An alternative is the !mute command, which may be used in situations where a player is being toxic in chat.

I trust that you will use the better judgement that I know of yours when dealing with such situations in the future, Beer. Take this as a warning.


Complaint archived.