[Don_Killuminati@useast]

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Re: [Don_Killuminati@useast]

Postby Anda » Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:13 am

If he keeps his hands off Vendeta topic and proves he rly has a passion to moderate again, i will work with him. As i said before i like him, i value his persona but i am simply disgusted by the ways he is willing to get vende unvouched. And im not ashamed to say that public. Calling people cancer etc is a no go for me.I believe also he eihter has to state what precisely he ment with moderation ( or me ) ? forcing people to shut up and not express their own view or admit he ment me personally and thinks i am not fit for the jo. There are steps imo he needs to take to come back to moderation.
IM willing to forgive and work towards a better future though

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Re: [Don_Killuminati@useast]

Postby epicdeath » Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:14 am

Imo if my following 2 assumptions are correct he'll be a solid addition to the mods.
1. He is able to make unbiased rulings towards vendeta despite their current dispute.
2. This application isnt a confrontational passing of judgement towards the current mods regarding a penalty that could potentially be seen as harsh.

I haven't been part of lihl long but Donki Is one of the players I look up to. His previous moderation experience, solid skill level and overall popularity within the league paint him as a near ideal candidate in my reckoning. My experiences with him ingame have always been calm and friendly so if the vendeta dispute is able to be overlooked by both himself and others I reckon he will have nothing but a positive impact from a moderation position.

Cheers and best of luck mate,
epic.
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Re: [Don_Killuminati@useast]

Postby ZinGir » Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:36 am

Rawr i dont care enough half the time, to post anything so lets go.

I dont think don can be any kind of mod, he already has his mind set on abuse and even said so in the discord.
Sure talk around sure ignore it. but fact remains he said he wanted to abuse and just applying to abuse aint good enough. you dont see me apply just cause i disagree with hazardous. you dont see me apply cause i hate stiff meister to ban em.

You dont want to be a mod you want to abuse and thats the only reason.
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Re: [Don_Killuminati@useast]

Postby nicolai123 » Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:51 am

So just because don_killuminati disagreed with the mods on a specific ruling, he shouldn't be a moderator? That is pure fascism in my humble opinion. There is a strong argument to be made for extending vendetas unvouch if you consider the larger context of his behavior(which is also why mods punish players more harshly based on previous violations).

It is simply a fallacy to make this issue out to be a personal grudge between don_killuminati and the current moderation team, just because he disagreed with them on a single issue. I'm sure there has been plenty of disagreements between moderators on several rulings throughout lihl's history, but I am sure this did not result in the disagreeing mod getting kicked from the moderation team.

All in all i believe Don_Killuminati can be a good addition to the moderation team, because he is willing to see things for what they are; in a larger context of that players behavior.

You guys(Mick, Other people) argue that his opinion about Vendeta is an argument against him being a moderator? I believe it is the strongest argument FOR him becoming a moderator.

Edit: I just wanted to make something clear in my statement: If Donki's intention is to just ban vendeta without any procedure and ragequit the moderation team he will not have my support and, such a person should never be a moderator.
Last edited by nicolai123 on Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: [Don_Killuminati@useast]

Postby ZinGir » Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:53 am

No the biggest issue is he gets mad ingames and this is a fatal flaw in any mod. Vendeta is just an example. Any way this is not suppose to be another thread about that.

I should have been more specific then just give that example.
Any way anger issue is my biggest concern
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Re: [Don_Killuminati@useast]

Postby FadingSuns » Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:41 am

I support this.

I dont see why he getting mad in games (as a player) will make him judge cases bad (as a mod). Donki knows what skin he wearing when he does things. We know him, he wont stop being mad in games sometimes (just exact same as me), but i think we all trust him enought and also our community is not stupid and wont let random bias decissions go on.

All in all, as it has been stated, its always good to have a sharpen tongue on the moderator team, one passional guy is always a good add.

Gl Tker

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Re: [Don_Killuminati@useast]

Postby KiwiLeKiller » Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:23 pm

Ok, I will express myself here, even though I left LIHL recently. Just like Mick, I still visit the forums from time to time and I kept myself updated on the forum issues.

I strongly think Donki would be a very strong addition to the current LIHL moderation team if it was not of the context in which this application was made:
    > Donki is a very skilled player, he's been around for a very long time and I'm sure he knows the rules very well.
    > He has been a moderator before and he has proven himself capable of being objective in this position.
    > He is a mannered person, very enjoyable player to play with. I have myself had an argument with him months ago, but we have both been able to carry on and get our things together.
    > The current LIHL moderation team could need a hand, since, as far as I know, only Anda is actively moderating the forums and ruling cases.
So, let aside the context in which he left his position of LIHL moderator a few years back, here I would tend to support this request. However, this alone cannot sum up his application because of the current context.

    > It is clear that Donki holds grudge towards Vendeta, which on it's own would definitely not be an issue if Donki could be unbiased, neutral and objective as a moderator, but he clearly stated the opposite. I do not think it is sane for a league to elect someone who willingly announce that he would be biased before-hand.
    > Also, he has been very recently unvouched for rage quitting a game. Mistakes happen and I don't think his application should be denied because of that, but what worries most is what followed this unvouch, in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=85&t=129157
    He showed refractoriness to using guidelines when judging a case, which is the most fundamental procedure, in my opinion, to prevent any form of abuse or inconsistencies between different moderators, different ruling and different cases. He also tried to justify his behavior by Vendeta's behavior which he should not have done in the first place (please don't refer to myself, there is a reason why I've never been a LIHL moderator). Breaking the rules has to be punished within the guidelines, even though it had a lesser impact. A more impacting rule break only extends the ban length, to the discretion of the moderator.
All in all, I won't take position regarding Donki's application. I've stated the pros and cons I could think of. Donki could make a very good moderator if he wants to, but I honestly do think the timing of this application was poorly chosen.
"in a moment of extreme passion"
- Beastman (2017)

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Re: [Don_Killuminati@useast]

Postby ZinGir » Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:45 pm

So lemmy get this right, just cause he gets mad and might be biased he should be a mod?
Cause the community wont let it pass?

I mean i get mad in games too, well the right word is annoyed, and you can bet on it il take justice into my own hands and will ruin there day.
Like i have said before you dont see me apply for mod just to get rid of people i dislike.
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Re: [Don_Killuminati@useast]

Postby dweiler » Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:47 pm

To some of the responses, also Don himself.

Regarding the Vendeta case, this is a problem, since he has shown in the past that as a moderator he is not so able to make compromises. I specifically mentioned when he ragequit the moderator position, and in his reply in this topic he defended his decision back then, even though what he did is a no-go area as a moderator. To explain for people who don't know the situation (I looked back): he banned Eldryan for 2 days, because Eld kicked him from obs-spot on 1006's request, even tho Don was a mod. Okay so far. Then Eldryan applied and after giving his reason, Diablo_ decided to grant Eld his appeal. Don then immediately responded by banning Eldryan again, because he did not agree with the appeal being granted. In the end Art)y had to intervene and Don ragequit moderation over it, as it turns out because he still thinks he is right.

This shows to me he is not able to work in a team when his convictions are getting in the way. He does not understand his action is wrong, not because maybe he was right on the matter, but that you just cannot do this as a moderator. This will 100% be a problem again with Vendeta. It does not work to make him powerless over the Vendeta case imo, if someone needs that he is just not fit for moderatorship.

He also expressed here already that he thinks the LIHL team has poor judgment skills. So you can expect him to overturn, not work in a team, publicly disagree again.

Also, as many others stated, I don't think he has the right reasons to join the mod-team at the moment.

I would advice that if Don would be a moderator, it would certainly be not at this moment, but a calmer point in the future, and he would need to make clear how he thinks he will work in a team on moments when his convictions and of other moderators diverge.
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Re: [Don_Killuminati@useast]

Postby FadingSuns » Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:32 pm

But mick, u already said that the best way for u to learn from the past was with ur mistakes. If we dont give donki a second chance we will never know if he learned from that.

Srsly, anyone here thinks Donki is gona perma unvouch vende? it would stink so much and i think he is smarter than that... He will surely stay away of vendetas case, or at max, discuss it internally in mods forum.

As long as we have active mods, no decission will be taken by one mod solo before discuss on mod channel, thats what i expect, and thats why i already support this again, Anda and Donki will have to speak to get an agreement before post judgements of cases, thats the less we can expect from our mods (at least the ones that are active)

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Re: [Don_Killuminati@useast]

Postby Vendeta » Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:03 pm

I just kept reading this thread, and it just gets more and more hilarious.

He actually said in his very own mod application that he thinks how current lihl moderating team has no clue about doing their job, and that he wants to come to show them how its done.

And u guys find that okay ? How ?
Let me quote his words, so u can see how wrong that is:
I was moderator less than 3 years ago, but i decided to retire after a disagreement with a colleague.

He did ragequit mod spot cuz disagreement with a colleague. Mick already explained what he did, and from his rages in games, and not just at me, he for sure hasnt changed or grown up since. He is currently banned 144hours because he RAGEQUIT a game where he, lets say, had a dissagrement with a teammate.

Why do you want to become a game moderator: Because i feel like LIHL urgently needs some 'judgment skill' at the moment, and i promiss to bring justice and freedom of speech, or at least try.

He actually saying that current 3 moderators cant properly judge on forum cases, that there is no justice in judgements, and that there is no freedom of speech at all in forum. Saying that the team he wants to join in is terrible. TEAM. That doesnt sound fucked up to you ? Or like many other things u guys just dont want to admit real facts.

He is type of guy who cant work in team, who thinks his opinion is most valuable, and who is always right. That kind of person simple cant work in a team who is making decisions constatly to keep a league alive. He is a kind of person who cant agree on a compromise, and that is why he is 100% a no go for a moderator.

Peace!
D.S. 1989

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Re: [Don_Killuminati@useast]

Postby iamyoursenpai » Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:30 pm

support for his application, he had his problems in the past but overall a person i would personally enjoy working with.

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Re: [Don_Killuminati@useast]

Postby n1ll3 » Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:41 pm

Donki is for sure a person with good mod attributes. But he has his promblems as mentioned above. And your timing shows this even more. So even if i like you as a person and enjoy to farm you lot !nosupport for now.

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Re: [Don_Killuminati@useast]

Postby Jamo » Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:18 pm

Well, sorry, but I agree with nille and Mick here. It's the wrong time for himn to apply for Mod and the fact he doesn't know, shows that even more...

Don_Killuminati

Re: [Don_Killuminati@useast]

Postby Don_Killuminati » Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:06 pm

First of all i wanna point out the fact that i never said here that i would be moderator to unvouch vendeta, the screens have been taken out of context and cutting off to make things appears as that.
I would have proposed to the current LIHL moderator team aka Tom,Senpai and Anda some alternative to the current unvouch procedure.
I truly believe that the current thread about it (create an opening on the opinion of the community) is a progress for the league and i also accept the fact of not having an impact on the final mods decision.

Now please, allow me an answer clear and factual to @Mickeythemousie.
What you saying here could have been true if eld had done an appeal instead of proving that the ban was not legit in a dishonest way( if you know me well, you would know that i hate dishonesty, it's imo the opposite of justice ) with a moderator complain. i whispered him couple times, and asked him to make an appeal and i would have been even myself happy to unban him, but yet he didnt, he preferred make himself exempt of any reproach.
You know, i was active enought at this time to understand how bad eldryan behaved ( by creating a toxic atmosphere ) and this ban was not trivial at all, but it was more something as a warning towards his behavior regarding authority.
Diablo's choices were taken by himself without any consent and yet approved that eldryan had done nothing wrong. Me leaving the moderator spot was not the best choice ( even thought i felt losing any credibility regarding LIHL community), but the future proved that his choices were bad and led eldryan to a permanent uunvouch
So, untill the entgaming moderator staff tell me that a moderator complain and an appeal is the same (wich i highly doubt, there is a reason of having separated sections on it ), i can say that your opinion is fully biased towards diablo choice :)


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