HowlingAbyss@entconnect

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Re: HowlingAbyss@entconnect

Postby SnowwyWolf » Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:29 pm

epicdeath wrote:Its good you have experience moderating and whilst ( @hazardous <3) your being new to ENT doesn't pose a major issue in my mind for this application the concern I do have is the fact that you are inexperienced at the games you intend to moderate.

This inexperience obviously wont matter with many cases such as flaming and solosend, however, I'd be interested to hear whether you feel ready to make an informed decision on cases such as king juggling in 1200, teamkill through sending improper units, selling to push or building incorrectly as well as !ff abuse where you need to evaluate whether the game is 'over' with only one side of information. To me, these sorts of brq's require a reasonable amount of game knowledge elsewise it can certainly lead to a lot of dissatisfaction amongst players, even if they are handled well, due to the level of subjectivity involved. Being very new to the game can only make this worse, not better if it occurs.

Anyway this isn't nosupport, I'm just curious whether you're confident to handle the more complicated cases and if not what you might intend to do about it. Best of luck with the application.


Find me any examples in the BRQ section and I'll happily evaluate the ones you feel are difficult to judge, I wouldn't say I am inexperienced in the games that I play, Hell Halt TD I know very little about, Dota I am new to playing but have watched a lot of it and I have played a ton of LoL so I get the idea behind it. With Legion TD I have a large amount of experience playing it. King juggling is a quite simple one to evaluate in my opinion such as hitting each unit once (unless for TM, wave etc) and since you mentioned the 1200 bot, is it even more evident in this elo when they are intentionally juggling the king. TK through sending improper units again will be evident through the replay itself, watching the chat, the enemies towers and getting an idea of the flow of the game. For instance, if it's round 17 and instead of sending a DD you spam useless units it is quite obvious and players in 1200 elo know better so again in this elo I find it easier to evaluate, not harder because at least in lower elos the players may simply be new.

I have already evaluated king juggling, FF abuse and others in LTD, feel free to check through my previous posts as I do try to cover a wide range of different BRQ's and not just simply solo-send or flaming. To answer your question directly though, I would answer it with a rhetorical question.
What percentage of the BRQ's (all 6 pages of them) are the more complicated issues? You will notice the vast majority of BRQ's are not for complicated issues and are fairly straight-forward, I would begin by getting through all of those ones first. Once I get to the complicated ones I would first evaluate whether or not I feel I have the skill set to tackle it, regardless I would give it my best attempt but before posting I'd speak to other moderators to see if they came to the same conclusion as myself and if not, why not. From this I would learn and understand the more complex issues, looking at historical BRQ's cases and just generally asking the other moderators questions.

Overall I feel it is quite unfair to say I am not experienced enough at LTD to evaluate the various rules that may be broken that you have mentioned, even more so because I have already weighed in on BRQ's for most of the ones you mentioned. There are far more players dissatisfied due to the fact that there are 6 pages of BRQ's that need going through and I'd be more than willing to tackle them, increasing satisfaction levels.

TL;DR - Yes I am ready to tackle the more complicated cases that you have mentioned, in fact, I already have on numerous of my BRQ's such as king juggling and FF abuse. As you rightfully said most of the BRQ's are for issues I'd be able to tackle without any issue and right now there are 6 pages worth I'd be happy to go through. Anything I am unsure of, I'd get a second opinion before posting and look at historical examples. I am keen and eager to learn and probably know more about LTD than you may be giving me credit for, malicious intent is quite easy to identify as well).

Thank you for raising those concerns and I hope I have at the very least eased some of your worries regarding them, if not all of them. Your evaluation of my application I find to be very fair as well, sorry for the huge wall of text I just want to cover all bases and show not only how serious I am about my application but to also make sure every staff member here knows my position on each concern you raised.
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Re: HowlingAbyss@entconnect

Postby Astros » Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:12 pm

While I would have personally waited for some time but there have been cases where I wouldn't wait because I wanted to get a game in before work, etc., do note it is OPTIONAL. You or your friend have a responsibility to everyone else in the game to respect THEIR time being used waiting for you. SnowwyWolf could have been busy and wanted to finish the game as soon as possible. And while staff members are expected to hold a higher standard, that would be in regards to behavior. His behavior didn't show any ill-will or negative responses. By your logic, you could fault any staff member for this by saying you were afk and that every mod should wait because they are held to a higher standard. It just doesn't correlate with having traits that a staff member should conduct.

I still stand by my original assessment in that SnowwyWolf would be a valuable contributor as a staff member and will only continue improving.
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Re: HowlingAbyss@entconnect

Postby bigtits » Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:14 am

!Support

This is not the best support you will have, but for all the game i played with this guy, he managed to keep calm with big ruiners, big flamers, toxic players (like me), always calm and nice in games, always fairplay and very good atmospher at all in games with him.
At the first second i disagreed with him in a post he did into my appeal, he pm me to fix the miss understood and everything solved in a minut, this is exactly the guy we need as admin, always nice talking to people, always here to answer questions, well i believe he will do a very good job as a staff member.

ALL IN ALL, BIG !support for him

regards
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Re: HowlingAbyss@entconnect

Postby Anda » Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:45 am

I also support him from what i can see on forum he seems to be motivated and eager to learn. Ent can use more active mods, requests are taking 2 long to be dealt with nowadays so fresh blood is definitely welcome.Gl
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Re: HowlingAbyss@entconnect

Postby runescape2007 » Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:18 am

There is no rule that says moderators cannot be a dick (provided no rules are broken)
However, people need to understand that he isnt a mod yet and criticizing his actions in some games where he wasnt on his best behavior is, as Kappa mentioned before, irrelevant to his ability to be a forum moderator.
Also keep in mind that reports against moderators are taken more seriously..
From what I've seen already on his involvement in ban requests/ban appeals, he is ready for a trial :)
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Re: HowlingAbyss@entconnect

Postby Merex » Fri Jun 21, 2019 4:35 am

I've some concerns regarding your application -

Firstly, activity. I'm only seeing one maybe two ban requests in which you've taken the time to review and even then - it was a rather controversial 1200+ juggling case which to an extent does asses some qualities but I'd like to see more, and preferably in multiple areas such as HHTD/DotA, as you said yourself, don't play much.

The staff of ENT are capable of reviewing any and all game genres that are in our ban request section. Game knowledge will help in more difficult cases but in a general aspect - you shouldn't need such and therefor should be able to watch a replay from said genres and be able to come to a reasonable analysis on the matter. Following this, I'd appreciate if you included link(s) in the duration of your application to the requests you/will review. Providing this to us, the staff, will both give us a better idea of how you can review, and will be appreciated.

Moving forward, there's another concern and that is your state of mind. Reading over your application does leave me rather confused on your intention - Specifically, I do see you want to assist with the "endless stream" of work we are given but I'd also like to see that you hold somewhat of a desire on the position and not just to throw yourself in the workload for the sole purpose of "trying to get things done". Of course, I can understand and appreciate someone willing to assist in it, but just know the reason why you're applying. Title of moderator isn't given out lightly, and in-fact we've had people attempt to apply under the same intention but ultimately denied because they do it irrationally and try to cover the frustration of perhaps having their requests/appeals un-dealt with for sometime and try to be given the power to do it. I wouldn't want to see this transpire here.

And lastly, our little interaction on Discord. I'm sure you know what it is I reference and that is when you talk back and engage in an argument with me over something so small then proceed to do it again with another member of oversight, Haunt. I can understand when someone wants to come out as correct and assert their position on the matter but when you do it to myself and another, you can see why it is we would question having you on staff as you've an active application open. I do not hold anything personal to the matter, as I'm sure you shouldn't either. But just know, this wasn't the wisest of moves especially when you interact with myself for the very first time in such a way.

I post this here because I hold a genuine concern and want reassurance from yourself that if you are to act this way to me directly - that it won't happen to the rest of ENT. I may have been able to "handle" it to some degree, but others in-fact won't and it can lead to a multitude of issues which I wouldn't want to see happen. To add onto this, having a preset determination of knowledge is also something I wouldn't want to see from a potential moderator as there's always gaps and cause for interpretation and if you are to bring this sort of mindset - It's definitely concerning, to say the least.

Overall, there's 2 major improvements to be made while your application still remains open and I hope to see them addressed and worked upon so that we the staff can get a better understanding. Depending on this, will deem my support or not but for the time being I will remain !neutral.
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Re: HowlingAbyss@entconnect

Postby SnowwyWolf » Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:55 am

And lastly, our little interaction on Discord. I'm sure you know what it is I reference and that is when you talk back and engage in an argument with me over something so small then proceed to do it again with another member of oversight, Haunt. I can understand when someone wants to come out as correct and assert their position on the matter but when you do it to myself and another, you can see why it is we would question having you on staff as you've an active application open.


I post this here because I hold a genuine concern and want reassurance from yourself that if you are to act this way to me directly - that it won't happen to the rest of ENT. I may have been able to "handle" it to some degree, but others in-fact won't and it can lead to a multitude of issues which I wouldn't want to see happen. To add onto this, having a preset determination of knowledge is also something I wouldn't want to see from a potential moderator as there's always gaps and cause for interpretation and if you are to bring this sort of mindset - It's definitely concerning, to say the least.


Anyone can view our interactions on Discord the way I spoke to you was not aggressive, I did not flame you, I was not toxic in any way shape or form I simply explained my position to you and even did you the courtesy of replying to your last point via PM as to not put any more messages in the ENT support chat. After this Haunt decided to add even more to it much later in the support channel (not even via PM to myself) which would have been the appropriate course of action to take should he wish to address what he saw. The same concern you have regarding myself in the Discord chat, in that case, would also apply to you and Haunt because I simply replied to what you said to explain my position. There was absolutely no reason for Haunt to post another message in the support chat about it, much later on in order to just bring it up again. I think your concern regarding Discord is an unfair one and I will happily share the screenshots of the entire interaction, I am sure no one will have any issue with it.

Following this, I'd appreciate if you included link(s) in the duration of your application to the requests you/will review. Providing this to us, the staff, will both give us a better idea of how you can review, and will be appreciated.


You are only seeing one maybe two ban requests in which I've taken the time to review? In this case, I would suggest you go through my posts again, I'll link them here for you as I have already done what you requested :
King Juggle - viewtopic.php?f=24&t=142159&p=550304#p550304 (it would have been slower if he just let the king attack at random, the point of king juggling is to slow down the process, he did not do that here).
Excessive flaming - viewtopic.php?f=24&t=142080&p=549901#p549901
Solo send / TK - viewtopic.php?f=24&t=142056&p=549788#p549788
FF abuse - viewtopic.php?f=24&t=142043&p=549734#p549734
Solo play / Toxic - viewtopic.php?f=8&t=142005&p=549730#p549730
Ping spam - viewtopic.php?f=8&t=142027&p=549729#p549729
Solo sending - viewtopic.php?f=8&t=142030&p=549727#p549727
Racism / Toxic - viewtopic.php?f=8&t=142021&p=549652#p549652
Fountain AFK - viewtopic.php?f=24&t=141976&p=549400#p549400
Refusing to co-operate - viewtopic.php?f=24&t=141891&p=549378#p549378
Solo send / TK - viewtopic.php?f=8&t=141688&p=549377#p549377
King Juggle - viewtopic.php?f=24&t=141680&p=549376#p549376
FF abuse - viewtopic.php?f=24&t=141876&p=549345#p549345
Item stealing - viewtopic.php?f=24&t=141953&p=549342#p549342
Refuse VK and troll - viewtopic.php?f=24&t=141911&p=549338#p549338

There are also more and that is what I have done already, you say I have not taken the time to review one or maybe two, in those I've listed (there are plenty more) I have gone in-depth in my reviews in at least 4 of them, I would recommend you read through them again before posting something that is incorrect about my previous BRQ reviews.

Moving forward, there's another concern and that is your state of mind. Reading over your application does leave me rather confused on your intention - Specifically, I do see you want to assist with the "endless stream" of work we are given but I'd also like to see that you hold somewhat of a desire on the position and not just to throw yourself in the workload for the sole purpose of "trying to get things done".


I've been a moderator and ticket support in many different communities, I like to give back and help out in communities that I enjoy and want to see prosper and improve for the better. Getting through the BRQ's and appeals would be a first big step in helping to improve the community, letting players know that if their game is ruined or they want to appeal a ban their voice will be heard and it won't be weeks before that happens. That would just be the first step of many I would like to do as moderator, furthering that I think community engagement on Discord, discussing different suggestions moving forward would be another good step in the right direction, perhaps polling to see what people would like to see improved or changed next.

Overall I'm glad you remained Neutral but I do think you have been unfair in your review of my application, saying I have only gone in-depth on one 'maybe' two BRQ's is inaccurate, In the list I have posted above alone (there are more) you can see me going in-depth on at least 4 of them and not one 'maybe' two. The interaction on Discord I think you are exaggerating and further to that it should be Haunt you have the issue with, he is the one who decided to add his comments in the ENT support much later after we have dealt with the issue to just bring it up again, he could have easily PM'ed me. Also please do remember, I am the one who taken it to PM's with you in ENT support and not the other way around.

Thank you for your review, I hope I have addressed your concerns.

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Re: HowlingAbyss@entconnect

Postby Merex » Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:04 pm

Much appreciated on the links, I had not seen them in your initial application therefor I had a reason to believe you'd not been as active as I would've imagined. To avoid having this potential misunderstanding from other mods, I'd recommend putting them in your initial application as it's appreciated, as stated, so we do not have to comb through your posts. Feel free to see other previous applicants, as they've done the same.

Overall, reviews looks fine. I do notice your comment on the king juggling case which you've kindly threw in but it's a done deal and again, there wasn't a need for it. What your opinion may entail is your business and nothing more. This will circle back to my attitude/state of mind concern below.

I've been fairly "nice" if you'll call it regarding your discord interaction but again, it's just concerning. I am just going to be honest here and say that I believe you don't possess the mentality to be able to cooperate with others within the staff. I've spoken to some on the matter, and they do share said concern.

If we take the interaction which you are more than free to post screenshots/whatever have it in this application along with some of the words here - I'm getting a very concerning sense of "I must always be right" from you, and quite frankly, we do not need that in the staff. You are free to contest this/further attempt to defend your point beyond this but at this time, I'm not convinced you are fit for moderating.

I would like to state, for the record, that your contributions and your overall post quality is fine but this attitude issue of yours is just simply too much to disregard. I'm not entirely sure why you go to the lengths you do to make your point, but again, it was/is unwise. We've staff in the past that held similar mentalities and it lead to many internal conflicts between themselves and other staff members which is why I cannot/will not support another potential candidate of the same nature.

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Re: HowlingAbyss@entconnect

Postby SnowwyWolf » Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:11 pm

Much appreciated on the links, I had not seen them in your initial application therefor I had a reason to believe you'd not been as active as I would've imagined.

That is a very valid point I should have included them in my opening post, my apologies for not doing so.

verall, reviews looks fine. I do notice your comment on the king juggling case which you've kindly threw in but it's a done deal and again, there wasn't a need for it. What your opinion may entail is your business and nothing more.

I'm not sure why you would be so against people expressing their opinion on something, I know it is my business and nothing more but when you are part of a community, each persons opinion should indeed matter, it appears you do not think the same in that regard.

I've been fairly "nice" if you'll call it regarding your discord interaction but again, it's just concerning. I am just going to be honest here and say that I believe you don't possess the mentality to be able to cooperate with others within the staff.

I'd be quite surprised if every single member of staff got on with every other member of the staff in the same way, I do understand there needs to be a baseline of mutual respect and understanding towards each other and I do not feel I have been disrespectful towards you in any way. Again I am the one who taken the discussion out of the support chat and PM'ed you, it was Haunt who commented on something that was already resolved long ago and again he did so in the support channel and not via PM. I have no issues with either of you I am just stating what happened, I think that is fair.

I'm getting a very concerning sense of "I must always be right" from you, and quite frankly, we do not need that in the staff. You are free to contest this/further attempt to defend your point beyond this but at this time, I'm not convinced you are fit for moderating.

You have not explained why I would be unfit for moderating though, you say I do not get along with the staff and yet the only person I have had a less than positive interaction with is yourself and even in this case it is a minor issue. Your other concerns regarding my ability to review replays in-depth and for multiple games I already addressed with the various links I posted. Your only other concern is because you have a personal issue with me, you keep mentioning my mentality and coming to the conclusion that I must always be right. Out interaction on Discord went as far as me explaining that what I said was entirely correct and all you did was re-word something I said. It is quite clear you being against me is purely personal based on one small Discord interaction which I do feel is a shame you let this one 'incident' make you have a personal issue with me. That is fine though, I do not have any issues with you, even if you do have them with me.

but this attitude issue of yours is just simply too much to disregard. I'm not entirely sure why you go to the lengths you do to make your point, but again, it was/is unwise. We've staff in the past that held similar mentalities and it lead to many internal conflicts between themselves and other staff members

Again I really do feel like you are exaggerating here because of our minor interaction on Discord and I will go as far as saying I do think you are taking this personally and not being objective because of this.

Screenshot 1 : http://prntscr.com/o4yu9t
Screenshot 2 : http://prntscr.com/o4yuft
Screenshot 3 : http://prntscr.com/o4yule

As you can clearly see it was a very brief interaction and it's not as you describe, I'm not entirely sure why you are taking it so personally because I can assure you I have not and I have no problems with you in the slightest. I've spoken to both current and ex-staff members and never had any issues with them in the slightest nor have they had an issue with myself. You said you spoke with other staff members that share your concerns, I feel it best you ask them to post in this thread which concerns they share and why because I feel it unfair you speak on behalf of other staff members that have never interacted with myself.

I do not always have to be right, I get things wrong, I admit this in games whenever I make mistakes, make the wrong call and so on. I also do this on BRQ's when I've been learning and Astros or Kappa has given me feedback on why they disagreed with my decision or why I was incorrect and I accepted it just fine.

If our single interaction is enough of a reason for you to deny my staff application, I find it quite astonishing to say the least.

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Re: HowlingAbyss@entconnect

Postby Haunt » Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:59 pm

I agree with Merex about the attitude thing and can't stress it enough how important it is that we don't get any more mods who only cause internal drama. We've had that before, it's not pleasant.

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Re: HowlingAbyss@entconnect

Postby SnowwyWolf » Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:01 pm

Haunt wrote:I agree with Merex about the attitude thing and can't stress it enough how important it is that we don't get any more mods who only cause internal drama. We've had that before, it's not pleasant.


It's interesting because only you and Merex have had such issues based on the screenshots above, anyone reading it can clearly see you are exaggerating what happened but I'll repeat what I said before.
I am the one who took it to PM's with Merex as to stop the discussion occurring in the ENT support channel then 6 hours later you decide to post another message in the ENT support channel after the matter was resolved, you could have privately messaged me but instead you chose to use the ENT support channel again.

I am not sure what you mean about more mods who cause internal drama, I have not caused any drama unless your idea of causing drama is pointing something out? You two are clearly friends and taking this personally against me, I would go as far as to say that.

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Re: HowlingAbyss@entconnect

Postby Haunt » Sat Jun 22, 2019 9:26 pm

What I meant was that your attitude and behavior during this whole conversation, both in this topic and in discord shows the type of person you are. Right now we have a solid team, we don’t need a troublemaker which you will most likely turn out to be.

And btw, correcting you in support chat and not in PM was definitely a good idea. Don’t need you spreading false information.
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Re: HowlingAbyss@entconnect

Postby SnowwyWolf » Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:28 am

Haunt wrote:What I meant was that your attitude and behavior during this whole conversation, both in this topic and in discord shows the type of person you are. Right now we have a solid team, we don’t need a troublemaker which you will most likely turn out to be.

And btw, correcting you in support chat and not in PM was definitely a good idea. Don’t need you spreading false information.


You are taking a discussion on Discord personally and you are being biased in your response here, it is quite obvious and I am by no means a trouble maker. Merex already 'corrected' me in the support chat, you adding to it 6 hours later to bring the issue up again if anything was being a trouble maker, you could have easily PM'ed me but instead, you decided to bring up an issue that was already resolved, whereby I was already 'corrected'.

You have not even commented on anything at all other than the single interaction in Discord, you have not reviewed or commented on any of my BRQ's, Ban appeals or anything else, this is how I know this is personal to you and you are trying to exaggerate an interaction to deny my staff application simply because you do not like me.

I will not post anything further on this matter and if that single Discord interaction is enough to deny my staff application then that will be the way it goes, I am simply offering my help and assistance here to create a better community for everyone.

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Re: HowlingAbyss@entconnect

Postby Haunt » Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:32 pm

Why would I have something against you if I don't know you? You are just a random dude applying for staff. The reason I'm against you, is your attitude when called out or corrected. You have to be always right and you spew bullshit to make it sound so.

I don't have to look at your ban requests because I think that your character is not fit to be a moderator, no matter how well you review games.

Nonetheless, I'm very much against. @Hazardous I doubt this is getting any more support/against posts, it's been up a while. Please process.

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Re: HowlingAbyss@entconnect

Postby Sylvanas » Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:21 pm

https://prnt.sc/o4yu9t

in a typical Merex manner, Merex did pointlessly rephrase what he said and you're both intentionally singling out the first part of his tiny 1 line and a half of text post in order to justify his correction and seem "right". cherry picking+strawman.

Of course my reply won't get approved so that your narrative can appear to be definitive and unchallenged. This way you achieve... gain... absolutely nothing in the eyes of anyone. You're so petty it's insane.
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