A new LoD rule

[Desire]

My suggestion on a new rule is to punish whom don't swap after a discussion on picking abilities for the other individual.

Here's the scenario,

Player 1 looks at Player 2's taverns, likes what he sees and has a great idea of a build that would satisfy him.
Player 1 asks Player 2 for a swap.
Player 2 agrees for he feels the same way as Player 1's taverns.
(simple idea of a swap in LoD)

But then...
As the timer runs out of time Player 1 betrays the swap and denies it.
Forcing Player 2 to play a build he never wanted in the first place.
Allowing Player 1 to have fun while Player 2 has what was suppose to be a fun game into a shitty one.

I remember the goal of a game is to have fun and to enjoy the game your playing. In this scenario we see the opposite of the whole "enjoying" part for player 2. I believe this is a new way to deny the trolls that can be encountered in the LoD community.

[aRt)Y]

I thought the "goal" of LoD is to have random "fun" abilities rather than swapping being the fun part.

Your suggestion seems flawed on what you based it.

[CheW]

@art)y

In LoD if you want to swap someone, after both agree, you each call out skills that you want from the other player's tavern. Then after heros are drafted you use the -swap command. This rule would make it so that if 2 players agree to swap and 1 doesn't swap after the draft it would be considered game ruin (which it arguably could be considered as now)

[Burnt]

it's kinda ez to circumvent too. If one wants to troll, he can simply agree to swap, pick your skills, change the skills in the last 10 seconds and swap you . This rule doesn't cover that lol. And there will be too much work if you want to cover all situations...

[efko]

@art)y

In LoD if you want to swap someone, after both agree, you each call out skills that you want from the other player's tavern. Then after heros are drafted you use the -swap command. This rule would make it so that if 2 players agree to swap and 1 doesn't swap after the draft it would be considered game ruin (which it arguably could be considered as now)

Agree, LOD is specific game and there are some game ruiners which used to provoke other players first with calling swap and then deciding to play own draft, but after someone agree to swap, swap should not be cancelled without punishment if its cancelled in last 2 available minutes for pick because its hard to organize in very short time. And punishment should apply in 2 cases:
1. if someone is doing that (ruining the game) on purpose for personal pleasure;
2. If someone decide to stop with swap in last 2 minutes and as result his customer gets screwed with own skills.

Also decisions may depends on how much that has impact on the game.

[Sylvanas]

99% of the time, it's a question of misunderstanding and/or miscommunication. I've never seen anyone accept/ask to swap and then refuse at the last second just for the sake of it. People change their mind halfway and hesitate about what they want, they sometimes don't understand English well, they run into incompatible skills and various problems, meanwhile time is limited and one wrong skill can ruin everything. In the end, who's responsible and how do mods pick sides?

[Desire]

@Burnt @Sylvanas

We are forgetting or misunderstanding what is being implemented here for the open suggestion I have shared.

But then...
As the timer runs out of time Player 1 betrays the swap and denies it.
Forcing Player 2 to play a build he never wanted in the first place.
Allowing Player 1 to have fun while Player 2 has what was suppose to be a fun game into a shitty one.

I want the rule to make sense of course so I added "As the timer runes out time" making it clear that Player 1 is betraying the swap AFTER the drafting part is over and there is no time to "change" or "mess up" as ability.

The whole "last thing switch up" just doesn't really make sense to me. Player 1 still betrayed the swap and Player 2 is still having the non-enjoyable game here.

Language. If someone cant understand the other player when swapping in the DRAFTING phase.
They'll either
1. Yes, mess up the others persons build but not even in the slightest. (which has nothing to do with typing -swap #)
2. Say "NVM" or "NO SWAP" and cancel the swap forcing the other player to also cancel the swap since there is still time to change.

If they don't swap because one of the two individuals fucked up the other guys draft, this rule can still be taken upon action since they both still agreed to swap. There's 3 minutes and 5 minutes in total to change ideas for a swap. If miscommunication is to much here. Well shit CANCEL the damn swap.

When someones asks for a swap they already KNOW what they want most of the time. Most people who don't speak English either don't swap or at least KNOW what they want and how to make it understandable for the other person.

We can try to make this rule specific like...
You are not allowed to deny a swap AFTER the drafting phase is over and heros are chosen. Nor change your mind and cancel the swap if the timer is 80 seconds or less and there is no -addtime left.

[Desire]

I thought the "goal" of LoD is to have random "fun" abilities rather than swapping being the fun part.

Your suggestion seems flawed on what you based it.

The goal of LoD IS to make make fun abilities, test them, out and see what the results are if good or bad. But because there is a -swap command that can be used to switch peoples hero's AND abilities we this being used more often. People usually swap 65% of the time in LoD. They do it to have the "fun" build that can win a game or just have that "enjoyable" game.

The whole "goal" thing here that I'm trying represent is the goal that the ENT rule page wants. And for the new comers to LoD. This is very similar to a game ruin or troll. That feel to literally have that "fun" taken out of you because of another individual.

The outcome of this being an actual rule is to make it specific that this is considered a troll. To warn trolls that this IS an offense who think or know that they wont get ban. And to show people like Player 2 that this is an offense and that THEY CAN get rid of them.

[Sylvanas]

What if, despite his best intentions, player 2 never understood what player 1 was asking for and never completed the hero he wanted? What if they ran out of time finishing player 1's hero because player 2 took forever to choose and used up most of the time? When is it okay not to swap after time is up?

[efko]

What if, despite his best intentions, player 2 never understood what player 1 was asking for and never completed the hero he wanted? What if they ran out of time finishing player 1's hero because player 2 took forever to choose and used up most of the time? When is it okay not to swap after time is up?

If that is not done with purpose to ruin the game, but as result of bad communication, then nothing should happen. I remember situations with high elo players where they wanted some skills unknown to me and using shortcuts for skill names and not even bother to explain what they want so wasting 2-3 minutes on single skill and then result was cancelling swap from my side because there is 0 effort from other side but rage always comes. Most of the players know only names of specific skills they are using.

[Desire]

@Sylvanas

If that is not done with purpose to ruin the game, but as result of bad communication, then nothing should happen. I remember situations with high elo players where they wanted some skills unknown to me and using shortcuts for skill names and not even bother to explain what they want so wasting 2-3 minutes on single skill and then result was cancelling swap from my side because there is 0 effort from other side but rage always comes. Most of the players know only names of specific skills they are using.

To add on, its Players 1 responsibility to make it as clear as it can be to tell Player 2 what he wants.
e.g. Veno ulti, Alch stun, Sand King second ability, Second tarvern.

If he tried his best and still couldn't make it being as clear as he possibility could and the swap still gets denied, Player 2 can't use this rule because of his own fault for
1. Taking too long.
2. Not understanding enough.
3. Not cancelling the swap.
(depending on how ruined his build is)

And to answer your question, it's okay to not swap if Player 1 and Player 2 agree to not swap.
IF your scenario does happen (which i honestly don't think ever does) I think it's still okay to swap due to Player 2 having the game he expected come to happen.

Again people usually already know what they want when they ask for a swap, but since you brought this up I guess if 1 ability, 1 ability + hero, or just the hero is fucked up. -swap is still allowed. If 2 abilities is fucked up, 2 abilities + the hero, 3 abilities + not the hero, and further more. I think that would be an okay time to not swap. I think that's fair since his build is pretty much ruined. (this only works if bad communication between both players are within them.

[efko]

Spoiler!

@Sylvanas

If that is not done with purpose to ruin the game, but as result of bad communication, then nothing should happen. I remember situations with high elo players where they wanted some skills unknown to me and using shortcuts for skill names and not even bother to explain what they want so wasting 2-3 minutes on single skill and then result was cancelling swap from my side because there is 0 effort from other side but rage always comes. Most of the players know only names of specific skills they are using.

To add on, its Players 1 responsibility to make it as clear as it can be to tell Player 2 what he wants.
e.g. Veno ulti, Alch stun, Sand King second ability, Second tarvern.

If he tried his best and still couldn't make it being as clear as he possibility could and the swap still gets denied, Player 2 can't use this rule because of his own fault for
1. Taking too long.
2. Not understanding enough.
3. Not cancelling the swap.
(depending on how ruined his build is)

And to answer your question, it's okay to not swap if Player 1 and Player 2 agree to not swap.
IF your scenario does happen (which i honestly don't think ever does) I think it's still okay to swap due to Player 2 having the game he expected come to happen.

Again people usually already know what they want when they ask for a swap, but since you brought this up I guess if 1 ability, 1 ability + hero, or just the hero is fucked up. -swap is still allowed. If 2 abilities is fucked up, 2 abilities + the hero, 3 abilities + not the hero, and further more. I think that would be an okay time to not swap. I think that's fair since his build is pretty much ruined. (this only works if bad communication between both players are within them.

DreadEasy, your suggestion is based on your opinion, its overcomplicated, and you have to take many circumstances into this and to make it simple and this = "but since you brought this up I guess if 1 ability, 1 ability + hero, or just the hero is fucked up. -swap is still allowed. If 2 abilities is fucked up, 2 abilities + the hero, 3 abilities + not the hero,.. " = is something what most of players won't understand and that just leads your proposal about the new rule to be declined. Also many players don't understand English.
If ENT will decide to bring a new rule about swap, then punishment will depends only on moderator and his point of view over situation. Yes trolls which affect the game with purposely ruining the game on start should be punished and people who don't wanna cooperate with picking exact skill.
I had situations where another player is just not capable to pick me requested skills even if he know where is mentioned hero and place of skills I wanted. Sometimes only option is to stop with swap and to continue the game on your own.

[CheW]

I'm sorry but in obvious cases this can be game ruin. If people don't understand english they usually won't swap. This is if someone says "YES I WILL SWAP" and you each pick skills. Then that someone says "NAH NEVERMIND PLAY WHATEVER I PICKED I'M GONNA PLAY THIS" after heroes are drafted.

[Desire]

Spoiler!

@Sylvanas

If that is not done with purpose to ruin the game, but as result of bad communication, then nothing should happen. I remember situations with high elo players where they wanted some skills unknown to me and using shortcuts for skill names and not even bother to explain what they want so wasting 2-3 minutes on single skill and then result was cancelling swap from my side because there is 0 effort from other side but rage always comes. Most of the players know only names of specific skills they are using.

To add on, its Players 1 responsibility to make it as clear as it can be to tell Player 2 what he wants.
e.g. Veno ulti, Alch stun, Sand King second ability, Second tarvern.

If he tried his best and still couldn't make it being as clear as he possibility could and the swap still gets denied, Player 2 can't use this rule because of his own fault for
1. Taking too long.
2. Not understanding enough.
3. Not cancelling the swap.
(depending on how ruined his build is)

And to answer your question, it's okay to not swap if Player 1 and Player 2 agree to not swap.
IF your scenario does happen (which i honestly don't think ever does) I think it's still okay to swap due to Player 2 having the game he expected come to happen.

Again people usually already know what they want when they ask for a swap, but since you brought this up I guess if 1 ability, 1 ability + hero, or just the hero is fucked up. -swap is still allowed. If 2 abilities is fucked up, 2 abilities + the hero, 3 abilities + not the hero, and further more. I think that would be an okay time to not swap. I think that's fair since his build is pretty much ruined. (this only works if bad communication between both players are within them.

DreadEasy, your suggestion is based on your opinion, its overcomplicated, and you have to take many circumstances into this and to make it simple and this = "but since you brought this up I guess if 1 ability, 1 ability + hero, or just the hero is fucked up. -swap is still allowed. If 2 abilities is fucked up, 2 abilities + the hero, 3 abilities + not the hero,.. " = is something what most of players won't understand and that just leads your proposal about the new rule to be declined. Also many players don't understand English.
If ENT will decide to bring a new rule about swap, then punishment will depends only on moderator and his point of view over situation. Yes trolls which affect the game with purposely ruining the game on start should be punished and people who don't wanna cooperate with picking exact skill.
I had situations where another player is just not capable to pick me requested skills even if he know where is mentioned hero and place of skills I wanted. Sometimes only option is to stop with swap and to continue the game on your own.

Yeah its something i didn't want to put out because of the lack of people who can't understand how to swap due to their English. I still honestly believe this is just not true. I didn't want to make it complicated. And I still don't see it being complicated without it. But if I cant get people on my side I guess it is complicated.

[Desire]

I'm sorry but in obvious cases this can be game ruin. If people don't understand english they usually won't swap. This is if someone says "YES I WILL SWAP" and you each pick skills. Then that someone says "NAH NEVERMIND PLAY WHATEVER I PICKED I'M GONNA PLAY THIS" after heroes are drafted.

100% agree on the whole English people don't swap. And as I said in my response to efko I did make this complicated. Not knowing it can be considered a game ruin even without the rule. Totally waste of time.