Clog LTD rule

[Goldie]

I appreciate Broud3r spending his time and making LTD map as good as possible. But clog is just one of those problems that will stay forever. There are many players who clog every fucking day and abuse this bug to the limits and we just move on to the next game like nothing happened. It's just not fair and makes players unhappy , unsatisfied with the game.

Perfect definition of hardcore clog : https://entgaming.net/findstats.php?id=9900459
110 leaks on level 17. Some of the players even saving 1600 gold and building over 120 value delay just to make clog harder. This is just ridiculous.
Please, consider bringing back intentional clog as a rule violation. Exploiting the game in this way is just NOT okay
Thank you for your time.

[KiwiLeKiller]

Clogging is worst than cancer and it should be banned because:
> There really is no counter to it. E.g. Enemy has ea and plan to clog 17, there really is no way you can win, because you can't send 16 into fat ea, and it's sure loss 17.
> It is clearly a broken game mechanic that has been reworked and reworked again and again in the past.
> If it is not okay to sell value to clog, why would it be allowed to save gold to clog?
> Same for split. Split is not allowed, except to send DD, because split on race level would stall too much time and would be game breaking, then why clog is allowed?

[Jabba41]

Please try to make line out rule for this that is defined properly. While some of your points have their value its very hard to define what "abusive" clogging is and when the rule would apply and when it got violated.

[Goldie]

@Jabba41
I linked you a perfect example of what abusive/intentional clogging looks like.
Majority of clogging is just made of saving a lot of gold one or even few levels in a row going past level 10.
Two main ingredients to make a good ass clog
A)saving gold
B)Spamming tanky units that got reliable sustainability or crowd control like ygg /lod/blaster/clockwreck/gateguard on 15 or hydra on 17
It is really easy to notice when clogging is intentional and team is trying to clog as hard as possible. Sometimes it's just saving gold, sometimes its a combination of both ingredients. Still, saving gold is the biggest problem here.
I'm sure you will make a lot of players happy by adding rule accordingly and getting rid of this bullshit that people keep abusing.

[KiwiLeKiller]

I think doing a more general rule like "Do not clog on purpose" rule, which would include more specifications would be great. A bit like the "Do not ruin the game on purpose" that includes multiple "sub-rules" like AFK, suiciding, ghosting, etc.

I'm thinking of it this way:

Code: Select all

Do not clog on purpose:
1. Do not sell value at any point of the game in order to clog.
2. Do not save more than 200 gold when sending with the intention to clog.

[Brandom]

There is no clog rule and probably wont be because it wont work, if saving gold will be forbidden people will just build useless shit which can leak even slower. If building useless shit will be forbidden there could be basically report against any team which won race lvl because u can always complain that enemy team could build better and that units which were chosen were useless on that lvl.

[Goldie]

@Brandom
Saving gold as a rule violation is still way better than nothing.

[Brandom]

Do not save more than 200 gold when sending with the intent to leak more (aka to leak more on a race level).

There is a rule like this on LIHL and as far as I know it doesnt work but yes, wouldnt hurt to implement that rule into 1200+ too

[KiwiLeKiller]

Do not save more than 200 gold when sending with the intent to leak more (aka to leak more on a race level).

There is a rule like this on LIHL and as far as I know it doesnt work but yes, wouldnt hurt to implement that rule into 1200+ too

It does help quite a lot considering that in LIHL, you can sell 200 value at any point of the game, so you can actually sell value to clog. So making it that you can't save gold and can't sell value would, I think, totally get rid of clogging.

[Meshtar]

So new map didn't manage to kill clog. Well, this is an old issue really, which has been discussed to lengths on these forums. Various solutions were proposed from certain map changes to enforcing rules etc. I think that enforcing some anticlog rules will just flood moderators with reports that mods will have to deal with and in some cases people will argue how they just fail built and didn't clog etc. I think the only real solution is to make clog much less effective as a strat by changing the map, not by putting the burden on mods. I suggested way before that the solution might be to considerably reduce collision size of creeps on 15 and 17 and maybe reduce the number of creeps on those levels too to counter the extra focus fire they will get. Those two things combined would nerf clog enough to make it much less viable in game, and also would probably balance out level 15 and 17 a bit more so people can actually hold it with good towers without the need to have monster values.

[Goldie]

@Meshtar Good suggestions , but I'm not sure if there's a need to overthink here/make things complicated. Simply adding a rule about saving gold would help a lot and scare off most of cloggers. From that point it will be obvious if rule alone is enough or not. About the burden on mods, Yes I do agree 100% but that's not a good reason to play half ass'ed map since clog is so popular.
Like Kiwi said , selling value to clog is not allowed but saving gold is allowed. Makes zero sense.

[point]

is there any possibilities to make sends moving on other layouts (like every builder do) so they will just avoid to stuck with creeps ?

[aRt)Y]

I think doing a more general rule like "Do not clog on purpose" rule, which would include more specifications would be great. A bit like the "Do not ruin the game on purpose" that includes multiple "sub-rules" like AFK, suiciding, ghosting, etc.

I'm thinking of it this way:

Code: Select all

Do not clog on purpose:
1. Do not sell value at any point of the game in order to clog.
2. Do not save more than 200 gold when sending with the intention to clog.

This sounds very much like something we tried in LIHL (?) and/or for public games.

If I recall correctly, our attempts to find a unified rule for clogging has failed.

[Meshtar]

is there any possibilities to make sends moving on other layouts (like every builder do) so they will just avoid to stuck with creeps ?

I suppose builder has 0 collision, but if the sends have 0 collision they can go straight attack the towers without being slowed down which would completely destroy game mechanics as we know them

[point]

maybe just middle area? tbh i dont know how this mechanic works, just saying. mb it could work like creeps bounty do