Urn + Batrider: recognized as a bug?

[EdgeOfChaos]

Discussion on it here: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=120393

Sticky Napalm triggers each tick on Urn, causing like 1000 damage total.
I guess other items don't do this.
Are we recognizing this as a glitch and disallowing it, or is it allowed?

[Burnt]

lol I used to see napalm and rhasta shackle did 1k dmg in dota 2 lod

[Zeratul]

Well technically i dont see it as a bug or a glitch - Sticky Napalm is supposed to stack (reducing movement speed, and turning speed + amplying damage from every batrider instance (both attacks/spells) -> His fire rocket + firefly also deals increased dmg, i just havent tried if with other items, besides urn, this also happens, so cant say it for sure atm), but according to the skill itself, there's nothing wrong with it (glitch-wise), even if it's OP as hell imo

EDIT: For DotA2 this is what it says:

[*]Sticky Napalm triggers on any damage instance caused by Batrider, except from Orb of Venom, Radiance (Active), Spirit Vessell, Urn of Shadows and damage with the no-reflection flag.

[*]Batrider himself has to cause the damage. Other units under his control do not trigger Sticky Napalm.

[*]Sticky Napalm deals its damage in a separate damage instance, right after the triggering damage.

So i guess it wasn't intended (obviously xD) to happen ^^ Personally i dont mind whatever is decided, it can be OP (and game-breaking if the batrider knows what hes doing, and the enemy is somehow noob'ish or is clueless on what hes doing) - 4/5 stacks of napalm early game with urn charges and a few hits can pretty much tear everyone apart.

[HazarDous]

@Falenga @BeerLord

Input, please.

[FalenGa]

Sticky Napalm is supposed to amplify damage from Batrider's attacks and abilities afaik, not items.

And given urn is the only stackable item, i would consider it unintentional, hence a glitch.

[Rain-]

I do not think putting this as rule will be ideal though. It is a bug/glitch indeed
Some people do not even recognize doing them and urn is used by alot of heroes in general .

[FalenGa]

It falls under the game ruining rules, number 6, do not glitch on purpose. There is no need for a specific rule about it.

Bat rider is a hero that you don't see often. Bat rider with an urn is an even more rare sight. So, i do not believe there will be many reports on this.

However, if we consider it legit and allow people to make use of it, there is a chance this will grow, simply out of curiocity and how strong of a combination it can be on the hands of an experienced player. Especially against inexperienced ones, who will probably not even realise what is going on.

[Rain-]

I'm fairly certain that if any hero (in team with bat has urn) it works as well . So if we enforce the rules do we just forbid bat to have urn?

[FalenGa]

I'm fairly certain that if any hero (in team with bat has urn) it works as well .

I guess these cases are to be judged by the reviewing moderator, at his own discretion.

So if we enforce the rules do we just forbid bat to have urn?

We could argue between straight up banning urn on bat, or allowing him to buy it with the intentions of only making use of it on himself as a healing, or when sticky napalm is not in place.

The latter would get a bit trickier, in my opinion. But it would be better than denying a usefull early item from a hero.

[Dhamma]

If the issue is urn and napalm being a bug, than that is what should be banned.

Anyone casting urn on an enemy hero who's under the effect of napalm would receive a ban.

It should be as simple as that. It doesn't matter if bat has urn or not. And it doesn't matter if another hero is doing the casting. It's a matter of a bug being exploited or not.

Enforcement should be simple enough. Time stamp of use, like any rule breaking.

[Sylvanas]

It's not urn that's bugged, it's napalm. Napalm is supposed to affect all spells and certain items with bat as their source of damage and the bug is that it affects urn when it shouldn't. Urn from another hero wouldn't be affected by napalm since it doesn't have bat as its source.

[WolfPackMama]

Napalm's bonus damage also procs on other instances of damage such as Radiance and Mjolnir, to name a few, which are both fine since they're mid/endgame items, when Napalm loses most of it's power and needs a boost from these items. It does not proc from Orb of Venom I think.

However, the Urn grants a massive earlygame advantage of over 1k damage by the 3rd level.
I'd like to see it as a bannable offense of rules on the par of glitch exploiting.

[aRt)Y]

As explained by the moderators, the combination of urn with certain spells is a glitch.
We will not be adding a specific rule; rather, the ban requests will be judged on a case-by-case basis.