DotA v6.85ne

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Would you like to see the map changed to DotA v6.85ne?

Yes
14
52%
No
13
48%
 
Total votes: 27

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Merex
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DotA v6.85ne

Postby Merex » Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:23 am

Given the results of my former topic, I feel a proper suggestion is in order.

This will be the official topic regarding potential map change from v6.83d Fixed v2 to v6.85ne.

The pros/cons (from my personal observation/experience) will be listed below.
Pros
-New items.
-Cam option.
-Overall hero balances.
-Aghanims Sceptre Upgrade is expanded to more heroes. (Legion Commander/Skeleton King for example)
And more.

Cons
-Community loss. This is rather the most obvious and pressing concern given previous experiences of the move to v6.85 in the past left our main DotA bot from thousands of games down to mere hundreds, if even that.
It'd be important to note now that this version specifically still has -apem in-tact. Meaning, gold gain is still remained at +2/s with the activation of the mode.
-Potential unfavorable nerfs.
And more.

In my opinion, I feel the pros outweigh the cons. But that is just me, and a shift of map is something that the community and the community alone will need to decide as it's your games that will be affected. Please do your best to stay on topic and provide legitimate reasoning as to why you may/may not like this map change.

Relevant parties of my previous topic will be tagged to further provide necessary feedback. A poll will be added, as it will speak more clearly and potentially an in-game announcement so all of our DotA players have the opportunity to comment & vote.
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Re: DotA v6.85ne

Postby pinheadlarry » Sat Feb 23, 2019 1:19 am

Perhaps better than a poll would be to switch the ultra-dead arem bot to it? Which ever bot doesn't fill will obviously be the loser. I don't think you have to worry about splitting the dota base since I feel one bot just simply won't fill, much like arem these days.

I think this forum poll will only reach the forum die-hards like me and therefore will get biased one way or the other, and not represent the true preference of the community (the bulk of the players never stop by the forum and won't know about this poll).

I certainly support leaving 6.83 as the hosted map. I will likely retire from dota if it changes, but obviously if the greater dota community wants the change, it should be switched.
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Re: DotA v6.85ne

Postby Merex » Sat Feb 23, 2019 1:41 am

pinheadlarry wrote:Perhaps better than a poll would be to switch the ultra-dead arem bot to it? Which ever bot doesn't fill will obviously be the loser. I don't think you have to worry about splitting the dota base since I feel one bot just simply won't fill, much like arem these days.

I think this forum poll will only reach the forum die-hards like me and therefore will get biased one way or the other, and not represent the true preference of the community (the bulk of the players never stop by the forum and won't know about this poll).

I certainly support leaving 6.83 as the hosted map. I will likely retire from dota if it changes, but obviously if the greater dota community wants the change, it should be switched.

Great idea, however I feel merely switching to ENT38 (DotA arem) will not have the full affect of this map given it's population at the moment. The intended purpose behind a map change is to get a feel from the community altogether. I feel this can only be accomplished by having all relevant bots switched.

I've contacted ENT's staff department to potentially get an in-game announcement on this topic so dota players have every opportunity to comment & vote. Of course, lingering dota players that partake in dota affairs via the forum will have the immediate response on the matter but my intention is to ensure that the entirety of the community has, in the very least, knowledge of this map change proposal.

May I ask why you don't support the DotA 6.85 series? I post this as both a dota player and an ENT staff member because I personally like these changes. Also I can see this having a lasting positive effect on our own DotA bot, especially with the addition of the -cam option which to my knowledge does not exist on DotA 6.83.
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Re: DotA v6.85ne

Postby Sylvanas » Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:47 am

Test it on arem while the poll is running. arem can't be anymore dead than it already is and if it gets people to go play it then it's already an improvement. Give people a way to try the other map while also finding out about the ~80 heroes they apparently still don't know about.

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Re: DotA v6.85ne

Postby pinheadlarry » Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:05 am

May I ask why you don't support the DotA 6.85 series?


Sure. For me, I appreciate the continuity of the gameplay. When I was back in high/middle school, I would pick up new games as I had a lot of free time. Now, that life has gotten busier, I find myself only continuing to play my old favorites (Warcraft 3, Startcraft 1, battlefield 1942, age of empires 2). I found updates were often frustrating because it took a redial of the mechanics. One day you're murdering techie pickers as axe with blademail running over mines, then the next your looking like an idiot 0-10 getting wrecked by what used to work and then spending the next hour reading changelogs trying to figure out what happened. I like being able to take a break from dota for weeks/months and then being able to come back with the only challenge being shaking the rust off my fingers.

And right now 6.83 other than likely a bit of balancing (nothing which can't be countered), is probably the least buggy version I have played (Game breaking bugs). (Lycan fixed, courier-mines fixed, infinite trent stun fixed (sadness), I think even butterfly is fixed). I think the layna bug is the only game-breaking one still kicking around which is a near zero-factor these days due to arem being obsolete.

All-in-all, the ENT dotas-faithfuls left are likely going to stick around as long as continuity prevails. We may even get back some reforged players when the hype drops and people get tired of noncompetitive games with leavers. On the other hand, switching probably will lose some current players, but maybe you'll gain more new ones who only want to play 6.85? Bottom line is switching is risky for the remaining player base. I would try to "test" the interest in the new map as softly as you can so that no one rage quits prematurely. A hard test-switch (like they did in the past) might have some players leave ENT for good (e.g. ICCUP/reforged) without giving a chance for recourse. A softer test (dual-hosting) may not be as conclusive, but would be less risky for maintaining player base.

Just my thoughts anyhow.

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Re: DotA v6.85ne

Postby kunkka » Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:26 pm

I’d like to try the new map. I have tried 6.88 on RGC with new items and map and I liked it.

I think pinheadlarry is concerning way too much than needed because It’s not like the update changed the game completely - in fact, like every other update we haved lived through, the updatess did not aim to change the way heroes are played, they were just some balances here and there to make the game more fun.

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Re: DotA v6.85ne

Postby pinheadlarry » Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:01 pm

in fact, like every other update we haved lived through, the updatess did not aim to change the way heroes are played,


Yup okay buddy. It's not like these items would practically effect the build of every single hero. Just a small small small very minor adaption.
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Re: DotA v6.85ne

Postby xSAINTx1 » Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:49 am

lmfao, only octarine, silver edge and moonshard would ever be bought. Noobs dont buy medallion/solar crest, lotus, or greaves. Small changes really, and heroes like slark, legion, meepo, arc warden, bara aren't as strong as they are in 6.83. I would like to have a trial of this map.

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Re: DotA v6.85ne

Postby kunkka » Sun Feb 24, 2019 3:59 am

pinheadlarry wrote:
in fact, like every other update we haved lived through, the updatess did not aim to change the way heroes are played,


Yup okay buddy. It's not like these items would practically effect the build of every single hero. Just a small small small very minor adaption.

These are not hard to “adapt to”.

Silver edge is an upgrade from lothar so lothar doesn’t become a burden in late game.

Moonshard is just 2 hyperstones giving extra attack speed.

Octarine core makes casters a little stronger so slark, lc, etc. don’t dominate as easily as they are now, especially in em where carries are naturally strong.

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Re: DotA v6.85ne

Postby nitromon » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:16 am

Hi, I thought I suggested this before but I don't see my post.

How about change the current AREM bot to 6.85ne APEM? And give people both options and see how it works out? And eventually switch to the more popular one, after some time of course b/c I would imagine many would try 6.85ne in the beginning out of curiosity.

(Edit: I just noticed Mr. Larry above gave the same suggestion)

I voted "no" b/c ... uh... well I'm old... and tired of changes. :oops: hahaha have to learn and relearn and re-adapt. I rather love this current 6.83 b/c they fixed it so well, such as making melee skadi work with lifesteal and fixing Roof's agh to work with BoT etc...

already certain things I remember of the past versions such as skadi working with WW's arctic burn no longer work, Naix's Rage use to cancel MoM's extra damage taken... I fear 6.85ne will only make me more senile and confused. :lol:

But my opinion shouldn't carry too much weight as I do not play as often as most of you. I'll still play if you switch to 6.85ne, not any more or less than I do now. ;)

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Re: DotA v6.85ne

Postby xSAINTx1 » Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:18 am

Octarine is good on many heroes. Bristleback, ember, necro, veno, invoker, leshrac, zues, death prophet, skywrath mage, alchemist (talking to you pinhead) and some others. Invoker octarine is so fun, especially with refresher. Try it out sometime if the map ever becomes available.

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Re: DotA v6.85ne

Postby Astros » Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:39 am

The biggest issue with DotA right now is the lack of players. I don't think changing the map will help that so I will have to vote no. We should probably focus on some suggestions to increase the amount of ENT players in any way possible.
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Re: DotA v6.85ne

Postby baez » Sun Feb 24, 2019 4:49 pm

All problem is in what in this version and the version of a game works MAPHACK!
Here also do not want that new was added, that's all!

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Re: DotA v6.85ne

Postby artifacts » Fri Mar 01, 2019 8:05 am

I dont get why you guys are so stubborn to change, this maps old, theres a better newer version out thats playable...how is this not a homerun?

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Re: DotA v6.85ne

Postby Astros » Fri Mar 01, 2019 8:50 am

artifacts wrote:I dont get why you guys are so stubborn to change, this maps old, theres a better newer version out thats playable...how is this not a homerun?

Better is subjective. Not everyone agrees with the changes.
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