Dagon Spec

kunkka · Postby **kunkka** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:52 pm

Hey these replays are 500% more persuasive than the ones linked above? Let's all get mom + mkb on phoenix and veil + e-blade on TA for 20 elos each!

https://entgaming.net/findstats.php?id=10086893

https://entgaming.net/findstats.php?id=10073384

EdgeOfChaos · Postby **EdgeOfChaos** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 4:39 pm

MKB vs no evasion
19/4/16
Confirmed that mkb counters literally anything, buy it for 100% winrate.

Dhamma · Postby **Dhamma** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 4:51 pm

lol

i always buy mkb on arc. It can stops channeling and spells with casting animation delay. Esp with 2x arcs under ias shield.

And i always get it late with sniper/mort. Unless i need to get it sooner to counter.

almost never get dagon really, but i've seen it on arc too. lothars Ethereal dagon 2x, almost any hero dead lol.

BiLyA · Postby **BiLyA** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:17 pm

kunkka wrote:Hey these replays are 500% more persuasive than the ones linked above? Let's all get mom + mkb on phoenix and veil + e-blade on TA for 20 elos each!

https://entgaming.net/findstats.php?id=10086893

https://entgaming.net/findstats.php?id=10073384

Also u should proly always rush radiance on puck since the one in the first replay went 10-1-24 with that item and won ez 20 elo.

nitromon · Postby **nitromon** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:19 pm

ah whatever. I had fun.

Essenze · Postby **Essenze** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:00 pm

Never underestimate dagger+euls SB.

nitromon · Postby **nitromon** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:20 pm

Essenze wrote:Never underestimate dagger+euls SB.

I would love to see that.

Actually I was quite impressed with the eul ES in this game, I've never seen it before and it makes sense the way he was using it to supplement his stun cooldown.

taywon2 · Postby **taywon2** » Sat Dec 30, 2017 12:17 am

oh dude. I'm here, 1600 elo noob who played ES in that game.
I just happened to find this thread and I'm pretty surprised that you are making spec dagon is somehow legitimate thing to do.

Well, I don't think so.

The game was completely carried by ES(me) and medusa. I made insane stuns and ultis to them + warding through the entire game. Someone in this thread already made a true comment: "it doesn't help your illusions at all, unlike Radiance. The best items on spec are ones that your illusions can use to disrupt the enemy team. In a random pub you can do well with any garbage build sometimes."

Well, throughout the game, me (ES), vengi and medusa made their hp lower than 400 hp and you got the kills by using ulti+dagon. This wouldn't help us at all. You didn't contribute any dmg (not even tanking + warding) but getting those obvious kills which we might got without you. I'm not saying you should get a radi as first item but at least you need something tanky item to give them a aoe dmgs.

I mean, honestly, think about it. We had one leaver and you spent 2850 gold for getting dagon. If you just waited 3-5 min you were able to get 3200 gold to get Messerschmidt's Reaver or those 2850 gold can be spent to get blademail, which is prefect time for killing sniper+invoker in early game. If you turn the blademail in correct time, this simple item will give them more than 400 dmg to all of them which dagon gives 400 dmg to single player.

Books? Well, yeah, 3 of them were invisible so we needed to have dust or sentry/gems. But that doesn't mean that spec needs to spent 5350 gold to get the level 3 book. I was carrying sentries/dust every single moment throughout the game.

Most importantly, do you even know why we blamed to you? it's because of your attitude.
Even from the beginning, we all asked you to get hp items since they have lc, bara and sniper. Yet you were saying "nah I build spec for assassinate building, I dont go normal builds". Yes, you made this comment even before Invoker dropped from the game. Overall, throughout the game, we all asked you to get a real item for spec but you refused but getting dagon and necro books. The game would be so much easier if you got normal spec items.

Anyways, I do not understand why you would bring this up to thread. And please, do not argue without giving a full context : " we all asked you to get normal spec item, even before invoker dropped from the game, but you constantly refused the game"

You were spec and they have sniper. One of the things we all expected from you was to get closer to sniper and kill him asap since sniper brings most of the dmg. I even asked you to do that. Well, you refused.

gg

I had fun anyway. Hope my comment helped you to know the reason we blamed on you.
Sorry for being toxicity though.

nitromon · Postby **nitromon** » Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:58 am

taywon2 wrote:The game was completely carried by ES(me) and medusa.

No it wasn't, you were practically useless until you got the blink, which is not your fault persay, most ES are that way without that core item. But this isn't a post about comparing dick sizes. Nobody specifically carried this game, and I did credit you and dusa in the posts above for your contributions. However, if I did not contribute earlier, instead wait 40 mins to get strong, game would've been finished at the 26-30 min mark. Being a veteran player, I'm sure you know the fact that team KDR do affect leveling, gold/items, etc... I did my job, kept them down, prolonged the game.

Let's be realistic. Say radiance, 3800+1350, a good early farm I could get that 12-15 mins, maybe a little faster since we had 4 heroes. But 2 problems. 1) we were ganked hard and turtled for 30 mins, wasn't gonna get that radiance fast. 2) Even if I had a radiance, would've done very little walking around with a radiance and boots. Radiance requires other items to be effective. So we're looking again at a 30-40 min spec. Let's not overlook, I got that dagon roughly around 7-8 min mark, as I do most game, latest in 10 mins. I can start killing enemies.

So, going radiance (or reaver for a heart or satanic) is a good 20 mins where I can't contribute, not to mention can't kill enemies, so they continue to level and farm. Compare that to a dagon at 8 mins, where I can contribute, save teammates, kill enemies, deny them gold and level.

And to call it "dagon spec" itself is inaccurate. I got a dagon yes, but I still get items spec needs, depending on game. This game, I went book. Not every game, other games I'd go mjollnir first or straight to skadi and basher. If necessarily, a diffusal.

Books? Well, yeah, 3 of them were invisible so we needed to have dust or sentry/gems. But that doesn't mean that spec needs to spent 5350 gold to get the level 3 book. I was carrying sentries/dust every single moment throughout the game.

I would have to continuously buy dust to keep killing, which waste 180 gold each time. But it isn't purely just about vision, but necros are actually really strong offensively. I always get skadi with Spec anyways, slow and attack with necro can decimate enemies fast, as demonstrated in that game. I had a focus, take out snipe or voker, leave their melee supportless. That was the aim. Had I been dying a lot, I'd probably get skadi first. However, this was an ez game, I went 7-0 before dying at 8-1, so I decided book was acceptable.

Most importantly, do you even know why we blamed to you? it's because of your attitude.
Even from the beginning, we all asked you to get hp items since they have lc, bara and sniper. Yet you were saying "nah I build spec for assassinate building, I dont go normal builds". Yes, you made this comment even before silencer dropped from the game. Overall, throughout the game, we all asked you to get a real item for spec but you refused but getting dagon and necro books. The game would be so much easier if you got normal spec items.

See, you still haven't learned. First of all, why should I listen to you? Did you play better than me in this game? Nope. Was my build making me feed? Or not contributing, nope. The fact you admitted right from the start you are so arrogant to think everyone should listen to you, you are the only one who knows how to play? I mean, you know a cliche heart + radiance spectre? Who doesn't know that one?

I've been playing DOTA since you were probably still in diapers. I may not be as fast as I use to in my old age, but I do know a thing or two about the fundamentals. There is no such thing as "normal" build for any hero. You can say certain items are "core" items, but every game is different and a veteran player knows to respond to their opponent. Also, just because "everyone" builds a hero in a certain way, it doesn't make it the "normal" way.

As explained, any other more "typical" build for this game would've ended the game at the 30 min mark, I guarantee it. The enemy, in the chat if you read it, knew and were planning to finish at 30 mins. They almost succeeded. A BM + heart at 30 mins? When we're all turtling? Not likely. Even if I had it, it would've done nothing. They'll run pass me and kill you and VS. We didn't need a tank. We need someone that can "balance" the odds against us by eliminating key support heroes in team fights.

You were spec and they have sniper. One of the things we all expected from you was to get closer to sniper and kill him asap since sniper brings most of the dmg. I even asked you to do that. Well, you refused.

this proves you didn't watch the replay. I did this ALL game. I noticed that the sniper's scattershots were preventing your blink, so I had to initiate, which I did.

Let's be a little more positive. I really do like your Eul ES. It was the first time I've seen it, at least to my memory. I like it so much, I adapted it to my game today playing Zeus. Actually I haven't played Zeus in... 2-3 years, but I know what people want: get scepter and refresher. Correct? Instead I adapted my game to the need of the team, I went blink and then euls. I used the euls when their void ults to save my teammates and I use the euls on myself after I blink in and cast all my spells, so the CD refreshes and I lay down a few more spells, maximizing my passive. I did ok 14-7-23.

But you know Eul ES is not "normal," right? How would you feel the moment you went Euls with ES, your teammates start trash talking you? Telling you to get normal items like rush a scepter, refresher, shiva? See, you played ES very creatively, I expected someone like you to show the same courtesy to another player.

Tell me though, what would you have done in this game if they decided to go pipe or BKB? You would've been useless lategame. I've played DOTA for a very long time and heroes that got my attention, where I play a lot of it, I always try to figure out ways to make the hero both physical and magical, so it is harder to counter. I always go battle ES these days b/c he already has tons of magical. I expect my opponents to counter me with bkb or pipe, but then find out it is useless when I'm doing 2700 crit and hung like tank.

Isn't this what DOTA is all about?

taywon2 · Postby **taywon2** » Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:47 am

Even if I gave you the full description, you still wouldn't get it. I think this conversation is going nowhere till you open your mind and think logically. Hope you understand it later.

nitromon · Postby **nitromon** » Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:03 am

taywon2 wrote:Even if I gave you the full description, you still wouldn't get it. I think this conversation is going nowhere till you open your mind and think logically. Hope you understand it later.

I don't want to copy and paste. I just re-edited my last post. Read the bottom part.

You talk about open minded when you are the one who gets angry when someone tries something you've never seen before.

You're funny guy.

And don't get so cocky. I beat you again today. I played lousy, fed poorly, but you farmed AM for what 40 mins? Trying to carry? How did that work out? I sacrifice my KDR to protect my team and we took the game. You young people, never learn. :lol:

taywon2 · Postby **taywon2** » Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:23 am

gg. your being arrogant. That game two of our player rasta and furi fed you guys so well they made 9kills and almost 40 death together by rushing soloing. Also, in that game, I didn't pay attention at all. If you want to keep arguing that dagon spec is something right, go ahead. Your being such a kid in this conversation like smiling face. If you keep wanted to say that, sd urself. If you reach at least 1600 elo, I worship you. Please ping me after that.

nitromon · Postby **nitromon** » Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:54 am

taywon2 wrote:gg. your being arrogant. That game two of our player rasta and furi fed you guys so well they made 9kills and almost 40 death together by rushing soloing. Also, in that game, I didn't pay attention at all. If you want to keep arguing that dagon spec is something right, go ahead. Your being such a kid in this conversation like smiling face. If you keep wanted to say that, sd urself. If you reach at least 1600 elo, I worship you. Please ping me after that.

Wow, I even complimented you on your ES play and you're still angry. You need help, anger management.

The smiley face means I was being light-hearted, jabbing you. My point is team work wins the game and happy teams typically plays better, so people should stop attacking their own teammates 1 min into the game and focus on playing and enjoying the game.

Zeratul · Postby **Zeratul** » Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:41 am

nitromon wrote:My point is team work wins the game and happy teams typically plays better

Again offtopic, but i cant avoid it XD https://entgaming.net/openstats/dota/game/10132461/

During the game i dind't realize how bad this spec was flaming them (since he kept it in team chat) XD not to mention hes 1800 elo lol, but after the game ended and i decided to take a look at the team chat, i gotta admit i laughed for a while just reading some of his sentences XD (And no, this isn't meant to brag about anything, simply for the lols on how teamwork worked on that side XD)

Spoiler!

Burnt · Postby **Burnt** » Sat Dec 30, 2017 1:29 pm

nitromon wrote:My point is team work wins the game and happy teams typically plays better

Sounds not bad but wait, is dagon a team item?

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