Dagon Spec

[Zeratul]

Aaaaaaaand there goes another DotA topic down the pipe (true that we somehow derailed into something offtopic, but i can see that this is gonna comeback into the hate/link contest lol, instead of actively discuss/talk)

[not2000elo]

https://entgaming.net/findstats.php?id=10193986

Also this, seems dagon spe is legit

It is. But 1v5s are rough.

[nitromon]

https://entgaming.net/openstats/dota/game/10201245/

Dr.Hook didn't show respect to dagon spec.

(16:22 / Allied) dr.hook: that spectre
(16:25 / Allied) dr.hook: big mistake



Duration: 1h13m12s
25 - 7 - 22


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Aaaaaaaand there goes another DotA topic down the pipe (true that we somehow derailed into something offtopic, but i can see that this is gonna comeback into the hate/link contest lol, instead of actively discuss/talk)

Well I kinda expected it, it is DOTA. Some people have really big egos I suppose. Check out the game in this post. It is only 8 elo win, but my teammates couldn't get the teamwork together b/c so much ego. Last 20 min, we're all standing around doing nothing instead of finishing the last rax. Game dragged out to 73 mins and we almost lost.

(38:42 / Allied) pen1smightier: too much ego on this team
(45:10 / Allied) jingomix: we lose cause of ego

[not2000elo]

https://entgaming.net/openstats/dota/game/10201245/

Dr.Hook didn't show respect to dagon spec.

(16:22 / Allied) dr.hook: that spectre
(16:25 / Allied) dr.hook: big mistake



Duration: 1h13m12s
25 - 7 - 22


------

Aaaaaaaand there goes another DotA topic down the pipe (true that we somehow derailed into something offtopic, but i can see that this is gonna comeback into the hate/link contest lol, instead of actively discuss/talk)

Well I kinda expected it, it is DOTA. Some people have really big egos I suppose. Check out the game in this post. It is only 8 elo win, but my teammates couldn't get the teamwork together b/c so much ego. Last 20 min, we're all standing around doing nothing instead of finishing the last rax. Game dragged out to 73 mins and we almost lost.

(38:42 / Allied) pen1smightier: too much ego on this team
(45:10 / Allied) jingomix: we lose cause of ego

Dr.Hook sure does have 3 absolutely terrible items for Void doe...

There is absolutely 0 reason why you need a skadi + sny with a mom already on void and on top of that, bkb is pretty useless too.
In all actuality, you guys should have lost that game but people can't void.

[Burnt]

I'd say that game was prolly won by ww and furion.

[not2000elo]

I'd say that game was prolly won by ww and furion.

Must have some kind of special magical powers to be able to say who the game was "prolly" won by.... especially without watching the replay which I'm willing to bet you absolutely didn't. Where can I learn? Do you give lessons?

[nitromon]

Dr.Hook sure does have 3 absolutely terrible items for Void doe...

There is absolutely 0 reason why you need a skadi + sny with a mom already on void and on top of that, bkb is pretty useless too.
In all actuality, you guys should have lost that game but people can't void.

We almost did lose. At one point we all died and had no glyph with mid already down. The SB bb back and sacrificed himself and bought us 22 secs, where most of us revived and successfully defended the tree. From the chat, you can tell the team bagged on the SB a lot. At one point he realized his KDR was being ruined so he became reluctant to charge. But have to credit him for that save though, it did save the game for us.

Void played exceptionally well, but I agree his item choices could be better. Then again, I don't play void at all, maybe once in an arem. He had a tough game though, our Wyvern is exceptional and if he doesn't get the WW in the chronos, he gets countered almost every time. On my part, timing was important. I waited for void to ult, then I ult and tp to his 3 ranged allies in the back of chronos. They were squishy, pretty much could kill 2-3 of them earlier on with just the dagon and skadi. So even if void kills one in the chronos, he finds himself completely outnumbered after the chronos.

It was fun game, except the last 20 mins were it dragged. No game should be 73 mins long, that was just ridiculous.

[not2000elo]

No game should be 73 mins long, that was just ridiculous.

I disagree. Some games should be 73 mins (and longer). But unfortunately it happens very rarely. That's how you know you have a good game.

[nitromon]

I disagree. Some games should be 73 mins (and longer). But unfortunately it happens very rarely. That's how you know you have a good game.

Haha, I merely meant I don't like playing such super long games. I was pretty tired by the end.

[Burnt]

Must have some kind of special magical powers to be able to say who the game was "prolly" won by.... especially without watching the replay which I'm willing to bet you absolutely didn't. Where can I learn? Do you give lessons?

our Wyvern is exceptional and if he doesn't get the WW in the chronos, he gets countered almost every time.

Ur right, I didn't watch the replay. And ur also right about the fact that I have special magic. I can give lessons but they are not free

[Sylvanas]

Must have some kind of special magical powers to be able to say who the game was "prolly" won by.... especially without watching the replay which I'm willing to bet you absolutely didn't. Where can I learn? Do you give lessons?

1/19/9 furion prolly fed and prolly didn't make things easy for his team. Prolly.

[not2000elo]

Must have some kind of special magical powers to be able to say who the game was "prolly" won by.... especially without watching the replay which I'm willing to bet you absolutely didn't. Where can I learn? Do you give lessons?

1/19/9 furion prolly fed and prolly didn't make things easy for his team. Prolly.

Prolly prolly furion wasn’t the best pick that game but judging by his items he wasn’t completely clueless

[Sylvanas]

Prolly prolly furion wasn’t the best pick that game but judging by his items he wasn’t completely clueless

There are clueless people who play well and knowledgeable people who play badly. Not to mention that dagon+lothars is basically the "dota for dummies" special package, so even if furion isn't the worst candidate for those items, it doesn't really mean anything.

Ultimately he functioned as an ATM for the other team and probably had more impact than anyone else on the game.

[nitromon]

I know this last replay is 73 mins, but how about you guys actually at least skim through it?

I mean, I really do not understand how can people claim to be veteran players and still do not understand scores and elos are not definitive? You really need to watch the game and know what's going on. For example, my kdr is always poor in treant games, but if you watch any of them you will know I have been a key factor in every one of those games. I don't get any score credits for saves with armor, for eyes the whole map etc... Most games if lucky, I end up with 2-0 or 1-0. One game, one posted by divinerape boasting about how he beat a geo with naix, I went negative kdr with treant. But if you watch the replay, you'll know it is a completely different story.

Yes, this furion was bad, but honestly? In this match up, he's not any worse than any other furion would be in this game. Here's the thing, early on in the game whenever I ult in a teamfight, I have a choice of 5 heroes to pick. I choose to take out supports and range heroes, especially with dagon. Not going to take on pudge (with bulk and magic resistance) or void (with evasion and chronos). So it was viper, furion, or dazzle. Viper has natural defense, tougher to kill. Dazzle with grave (yes he can grave others, but people tend to focus more on their own hitpoints than their allies). Furion was the natural choice as my 1st target. So honestly, regardless of the skill level of this furion, once I had that dagon, this furion was food for me. The hero pick was a bad choice. I got this dagon around again under 10 mins. How bulky can a furion get in that time? And the better question is, why would he? People don't expect specs to get dagons, he probably think I won't be a threat for 30-40 mins.

However, their whole team was not really a threat, with the exception of void. I mentioned at least 2 times to my team, "without void, show this team no respect." They were all squishy and food for me and sb, and slark. Yet... look at SB and slarks scores, they were not very impressive and if you watched the replay, you'll know they played horribly regardless of their accounts' ranking in elo and kdr. They obviously are not bad players, otherwise their accounts would be worse, but it is clear they didn't do well this game.

When someone looks at this game and say, "ah 8 elo! You guys stacked! Should've been an easy game!" I can guarantee that person is a noob or just very insecure. This game was very close. Both sides lost 4 raxes before our final push for the win. Both teams only have 2 players each with a positive KDR in this match up. Both viper and pudge only became a threat lategame b/c the game dragged so long they were able to get some items. If you watch the replay, for the most part of the game, both of them were weak.

Overall, I think our team made up of more decent individual players. But our ego prevented us from teamwork. The scourges were weak, but because they know they're not too good, they were more willing to listen to a 1600 elo void, which wrecked havoc on us early on and kept their team in the game. Throughout most of the game, the scourges were more together, team ganked, and team pushed (Later I read the chat, and indeed void leading their team and they followed). I think in the final outcome, void was still mostly the only threat on the Scourge towards the end. While on our team, the wyvern and I were both a major threats through the game. I think had void had just 1 good support on his team, that may have tipped the scale. Then again, had our team actually work together instead of arguing most of it, would've finished in 30-40 mins. Also, I specifically target his support and ranges, instead of taking him head on right at the beginning of team fights. This is perhaps the most valuable asset of spectre. Even SB if he charges, enemy can see him go for the supports. But specs' ult creates confusion, they don't know what I'm doing until 1-2 of their supports were dead. (Same strategy works with BH and clinkz, though counterable with wards/gems/book)

As far as dagon spec goes, I mean seriously, I didn't level it to 5, I actually did get more typical spec items. Calling it dagon spec is not really accurate, but then again I never said dagon spec means level up the dagon. The dagon allowed me to gank and kill early, even keeping that void in check. I'm not going to go around chasing him and whacking his evasion. Team ganks him, I blink it and take him out before he can escape. I didn't get book this time b/c they only had lothars, no natural invisibles (which typically last longer) and also void was the one I needed to counter (that and we had zeus to detect early and he went book). I didn't get mjollnir b/c there were no image heroes either. To take on void, I know I need butterfly for his bash, skadi to slow his IAS and increase my IAS, my own basher. My last 2 items would be satanic and crit (but probably mkb for this one). Still though, you can read in the chat my teammates suggesting that I get radiance and heart. I replied, "Why would I do that?" Most people just copy what they see other people get in typical games, they don't really evaluate and access the situation when they pick items.

[Sylvanas]

I didn't watch the replay and didn't read most of your post (I mean come on), but I always considered it a given that being spectre, you had the biggest share of those furion kills. Dagon or not, furion is a free kill for spectre is he's not next to allies. His tree circle "disable" doesn't even do anything. This isn't a "dagon spectre is good" replay, this is just "spectre gets fed endlessly and his team wins".