SF still viable

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Letbell
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SF still viable

Postby Letbell » Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:41 pm

Recently, I've been spamming shadow fiends a lot in pub-games.
At first, I was pretty bad at the hero because I don't really have a clue about the potential of the hero itself so it took me quite a while to get used to it.

I read a few guides where this is always be my starter items before 12 minutes of the game: Aqua ring, thread, and shadow blade
After 12 min and beyond I should get: Manta, BKB, and Butterfly.

However, it didn't goes too well for me playing SF the first time and I noticed a some weaknesses that the hero had.
    1. Low base damage
    2. Low armor
    3. Easiest to be gank
    4. No escape mechanism

So I start watching videos to get more insight depth about the hero, and what I've learned:
    1. Shadow blade and blink is situational and only pick up when you see fit.
    2. Forcestaff may be more effective in certain games, but not mandatory.
    3. Mek is only good if your team wanted to push.
    4. Prioritize your farming rather than early-team fight, because shadow fiend farm pretty quick.
    5. Soul ring is safer than bottle if you are planning to jungle while defending lane.
    6. Aqua ring is not mandatory unless you know how to control your mana usage.
    7. Don't initiate fights unless you see an opportunity.
    8. Don't always buy euls + blink combo because there are better items out there. Sure, you can one shot some pick-off heroes.
    9. Position and timing is key to play shadow fiend.
    10. You missed 100% raze that you don't take.

So I tried various set-up and and watch my own replays and see what's went wrong. Surprisingly, most of the time that I get caught because I either was too greedy or doesn't response to enemy that were missing.

So I stop relying on rushing shadow blade and blink, but rather watch and predict enemy's movement.
Spending golds on better items rather than mid-core items.
Buy ward if your support doesn't want to.

Here's 2 games that I've played so far by avoiding rushing shadow blade and blink.

http://storage.entgaming.net/replay/vie ... 446498.w3g
I didn't go mid in this game, because I was kinda afraid that silence would stomp me, but riki went mid.
There's a riki in this game where he can gap really close to my hero, and so I have to decide what's to do in the early-mid game:
    1. I started buying sentry and obs ward in order to secure my farm in jungle and avoid going to lane from times to times.
    2. I manage to pick-off riki passing through the jungle, but I doubt he knows that I warded.
    3. I decided to buy ethereal blade to deal with riki and manage to pick him off a few time again. It's odd that he didn't buy bkb.
    4. I started to buy manta for extra push and later on buy a gem to push. I noticed techies has force-staff so I have to buy bkb in order to avoid him pushing me in.
    5. Game goes on as the enemy team doesn't group and keep getting pick off and finally we won the game.

In this second game, I pretty much did the same thing, but snow-ball a little bit more and help team out.
http://storage.entgaming.net/replay/vie ... 447863.w3g

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xSAINTx1
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Re: SF still viable

Postby xSAINTx1 » Thu Dec 27, 2018 9:26 pm

SF still viable, if you are not a pleb. Like my name sir? @letjing @letbell

https://entgaming.net/findstats.php?id=11634165

IWinIfyoulose

Re: SF still viable

Postby IWinIfyoulose » Thu Dec 27, 2018 11:46 pm

Ty now I consider if I want to submit you for votekick abuse on cm, even she was bad. And then submit her for !slap abuse, think I do it tomorrow.
http://storage.entgaming.net/replay/vie ... 634219.w3g

(11:46 / Allied) lackluster: !slap ur stil shit faggot
(13:23 / Allied) lackluster: !slap lel angry nab
(14:37 / Allied) lackluster: !slap lol late ult

(15:09 / All) LetjingFan: can we kick this cm plz
(15:12 / All) LetjingFan: she is abusing slap
(15:14 / All) LetjingFan: and trolling us
(15:23 / Allied) LetjingFan: !votekick lack

(23:29 / Allied) LetjingFan: throwing
(23:31 / Allied) LetjingFan: never usedu lti
(23:34 / Allied) LetjingFan: !votekick lack

+ Flame

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xSAINTx1
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Re: SF still viable

Postby xSAINTx1 » Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:01 am

Lmfao? You're going to submit me for votekick abuse? What has the world come to. You didn't even watch the replay, and this fucker threaten to pm drake so he can intentionally ruin, and virgins like you can defend him @IWinIfyoulose

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Re: SF still viable

Postby nitromon » Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:10 am

SF is just another archer hero, unless you're really pro with the 3 nukes. Without the nukes, you're just an archer that collects damage from souls, or drow with damage aura, or clinkz with flame arrow, or snipe with headshot... all the same concept except sf has no slow and no windwalk, or any means of escape without items.

Typical sf rushes a blink or a lothar, either way SF is my dagon spectre's favorite food. Again, sniper/drow are yummy but they have slow, clinkz gets movement boost from ww. But the biggest reason SF is yummy? Compare to clinkz, sniper, and drow, SF is a huge easily clickable target. Somtimes those little guys run away too fast, I can't click fast enough with my 23 apm. But a SF? YUGE target, easily clickable. :lol:

But if sf tries to counter dagon spec by going bulk or linken et.c.., then he sacrifices early core items which he needs to be effective. Usually against a SF, I just go straight dagon and book, eat him all game. don't even need diffusal, radiance, skadi, etc..

Dagon/book spec is no joke. I love it when oppositions laugh at me in the chat when they see it and then I eat them up. MUHAHAHA :mrgreen:

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Re: SF still viable

Postby xSAINTx1 » Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:26 am

You live in easy mode heaven. In no real game, would a spec ever be able to kill a shadow fiend with dagon, ever. Shadow fiend would be 6000 gold ahead of spec, if both had a good game, as he's one of the fastest farmers in the game.

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Re: SF still viable

Postby pharaoh » Sat Dec 29, 2018 8:21 am

Like Saint said, SF strength is to be one item ahead of every other carry on the game. With a dumb dagon spec you cant even touch him, especially when he gets lifesteal so hes able to ignore the dispersion and the 400 dagon trash ass damage.

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Re: SF still viable

Postby kunkka » Sat Dec 29, 2018 12:47 pm

Dagon spectre lul he lives in the lala land

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Re: SF still viable

Postby nitromon » Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:35 pm

pharaoh wrote:Like Saint said, SF strength is to be one item ahead of every other carry on the game. With a dumb dagon spec you cant even touch him, especially when he gets lifesteal so hes able to ignore the dispersion and the 400 dagon trash ass damage.


You mean satanic? Let's see now... some sort of boot early, blink/lothar or his ult is useless... then you rush a satanic... That puts you at what? with best estimate 30 mins?

I will have a dagon by 12 mins and hunting the sf and prevent him from farming. This will push his satanic to 40 mins. In 40 mins, spec himself will already have all the items he needs. You know what kills archers right? Basher + IAS, this means your SF will also need a butterfly, a very expensive item. So which is it going to be? Rush butterfly or rush satanic?

I'll give you a hint, satanic without the appropriate IAS is still pretty useless. If you are going to rush a satanic against a spectre, pretty indicative you are noobie. Satanic will also not protect you from spectre's 2 pure damage passives.

You noobs saw too many copycats out there who go dagon spec but don't know wtf they're doing and probably go dagon 5 or something.

But even just dicking around, dagon 1 spec with just level 3 book and treads will own SF even with satanic easy. People underestimate the ability of books. And majority of dota players can't think outside the box to try something new.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Bottom line is, if you can't use SF's nukes well, you're a noob SF. That's the one thing which puts him above the other archers and let him farm both heroes and creeps early on.

IMHO, any player who needs to "farm" for 40 mins before they contribute to the game is just plain noob and game killer. Any hero, the whole point of dota is to try to make them viable in all 3 stages of the game: early, mid, and late. I mean, a naix who jungles for 40 mins gambles his team to carry him to lategame and then trashtalks thinking he won the game. ridiculous. naix is actually one of the best early game heroes both in solo kills and ganks.

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Re: SF still viable

Postby xSAINTx1 » Sat Dec 29, 2018 9:42 pm

Lol, all sf need is tread and bkb to kill spec for first 30 mins in Non easy mode. If you go dagon book 3, which will take at least 20 mins to farm, spec will have no greater then 1300 hp. Sf with 3 raze deals roughly 700 damage and a close range requiem will blow her up EVEN AT FULL HP. So, in 20 mins, sf will be 100% invulnerable to dagon, book mana burn, and spec dispersion damage with bkb, and will most likely have some sort of a mobility item or core such as s/y or manta to kill spec easily. Who said u need satanic and bfly? Yes spec will destroy sf in ultra late game, but you would never make it to late game if u went dagon and book, because you would have zero team fight and farm potential.

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Re: SF still viable

Postby pharaoh » Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:07 pm

You realize that dagger-razes SF is like a 2007 at most thing, right? After this era, the competitive SF build shifted to treads/sny or manta/bkb/lifesteal/butterfly/skadi or other dps item, in order to be tanky enough to survive and ult in teamfights and then rightclick enemies to death, since hes almost 6-slotted in mid game with the farm he gets from camp stacks with razes. But whatever, Im just a noob that hit almost 6k mmr in dota 2 like 2 years ago, my opinion means nothing against a pro that goes dagon on em games to kill "archers" or something, LULZ.

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Re: SF still viable

Postby kunkka » Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:03 am

nitromon wrote:You mean satanic? Let's see now... some sort of boot early, blink/lothar or his ult is useless... then you rush a satanic... That puts you at what? with best estimate 30 mins?

When did he mention santanic? He said lifesteal. Even if he meant it, when did he say he’s gonna rush santanic first? You based your comments on so many assumptions you made up yourself lul.

Now go post a dagon spe game where you win more than 13 elo

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Re: SF still viable

Postby nitromon » Mon Dec 31, 2018 5:24 am

pharaoh wrote:Like Saint said, SF strength is to be one item ahead of every other carry on the game. With a dumb dagon spec you cant even touch him, especially when he gets lifesteal so hes able to ignore the dispersion and the 400 dagon trash ass damage.


You mean, like this game?

https://entgaming.net/openstats/dota/game/11637517/

Watch the replay and see how easily I trashed this SF with dagon book Spectre. How are you going to stay "1 item ahead" when I keep eating you?

Early game, just SF hunting, ez dagon kill. He went lothar, a core item can't skip it or no chance with ult. Book counters lothar, I keep eating him. At one point, he ults with my necros on him. You know necro does massive damage if you kill them right? Instant kill. He counters with BKB which delays his other core items while I keep stacking my items up.

Yep late game he went satanic, hey like you would! But 0 IAS that satanic does nothing for him. Ez feeding. I actually was dicking around as usual (actually I was drunk), but got a bit cocky. Went radiance for fun when it wasn't needed this game instead of a basher at a crucial moment. That brief moment I only had skadi and he had satanic and BKB I was slightly vulnerable to him. But once basher is in place, not a chance.

SF - 6/16/7, oh my and he soloed! lol :lol:
Spectre - 13/3/22, takes best player title for game.

(23:02 / Allied) BigFish: wow
(23:05 / Allied) BigFish: spec has dagon
(23:06 / Allied) BigFish: wtf

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

pharaoh wrote:But whatever, Im just a noob that hit almost 6k mmr in dota 2 like 2 years ago, my opinion means nothing against a pro that goes dagon on em games to kill "archers" or something, LULZ.


Cool story bro. Me? 19 yrs, played on league games long ago. Was about 1800 elo back on dota cash before resetting my score. Had my glory days with 100 kill in 1 game with luna, 50+ kill in one game with clinkz. So what? Big whopping deal, everybody got a story right? Now I'm old, slow, play with 23 apm and still able to spank some of you kids b/c you are too cocky to learn the basic fundamentals of the game.
Last edited by nitromon on Mon Dec 31, 2018 7:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: SF still viable

Postby xSAINTx1 » Mon Dec 31, 2018 6:03 am

We are talking about normal dota, not easy mode. So weird how u had 120 cs, and sf had 300+ and you are able to kill him. Easy mode for retards like yourself, who think "spec is a versatile hero LEL". No, she has maybe 2 builds to go, radiance into manta/heart/skadi, OR the manta/diffusal/drums/mjollnir build. You just stunting on a bunch of trash players, and think ur good. Post replays of dagon spec vs myself, or players players like smoker_. I know u wont stand a chance.


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