DOTA Guide - Batrider

Think your strategy is the best? Let others know and help out their DotA skills!
nitromon
Treant
Posts: 486
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 2:32 pm
Has thanked: 42 times
Been thanked: 33 times

DOTA Guide - Batrider

Postby nitromon » Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:08 am

Batrider is not one of the heroes I have played as main before or as religiously than the others. However, he is one of the heroes I have played quite successfully in the past. He's not a hard hero to play, but I find a lot of Batriders I've seen are playing him fundamentally wrong. This guide is a fundamental guide to Batrider, so it doesn't necessarily recommend any specific item list as more explaining why certain items will work well or better than other items most people get.


Hero Guide to Batrider:
Batrider is an early-mid carry and mostly support lategame. He is the strongest by level 7 and require items to keep his efficiency. His playing style is actually much closer to a STR-sap Dirge than say Leshrac or Death Prophet. As such the more recommended items are movement speed, tank, and AOE damage. He is a lane controller, nuker, and his ult makes him a disabler.


Fundamental Strategy:
The key ability of Batrider is actually sticky napalm, it is what really makes him dangerous. All of his other abilities are typical nuker ability and the ult is a very good stun. With that said, much like sap-Dirge, he is a hero you want to play hit and run with, napalm your enemy, stay away, napalm some more, etc... And thus so, you want items that gives you speed and tank, while AOE damage. Some people build him like Leshrac or DP with items such as ghost, lothar, or Euls. But remember, you need to "cast" napalm, which is why Euls/Lothar is not as effective since casting breaks lothar and Euls prevent you from casting at all.

1) Hit and Run - The more napalm you cast on your enemies, the easier it is for you to stay alive and keep casting as it stacks up to 10 times in an AOE. Your enemy becomes almost completely immobilized after the 5th-6th napalm. Do not cast firefly the moment you see your enemy. This is a common mistake. Always spam napalm if you are chasing or being chased. After 5th or 6th napalm you start firefly. Remember, firefly is time limited, you can calculate how much napalm you can cast on them while firefly with the CD of napalm if you like. However, remember also enemies are not just going to stand there and let you napalm them, so give and take how many you can actually get in there. This is why it is important to stack as many napalm "before" you firefly. The strategy is play "prey" and then become the predator when you have the advantage.

2) Lane Controller / Crowd Control - In a team fight, it is recommended you have tanks doing their jobs. While the tanks distract, you want to napalm and firefly early to support. In theory you can napalm several times before firefly like in #1 above, but your teammates will probably not be too happy with you since you essentially sacrifice tanks to clean up. Also, in mid-late, you probably won't be able to survive that well without your team anyways. So you want to "cover" as much AOE ground as possible with your firefly in the allowed time. This is why the importance of movement speed, to move around as fast as possible. Also, a forcestaff is definitely recommended as if you are in trouble you can speed out of there. Flamebreak is also to help you escape when you're in trouble. The strategy is to blink in to the crowd while firefly, ult one of the enemy and napalm. Then while tanks and things going crazy, you keep napalming, running away, napalming - using your forcestaff and flamebreak to stay out of trouble.

Now some opponents will target you instead of your tanks, hence why you need to be a little tanky yourself. But you shouldn't eul or lothar as you need to keep casting napalm. His ult is a great, much like pudge's ult, and I think Rhasta, it goes through magic immunity. So you can disable a PA with BKB or a Naix, etc... save your ult for them.


Movement Speed:
Movement speed demands you get BoT and skip any other type of boots. Euls is good for speed and mana, but refrain from casting it on yourself when you need to napalm. SNY/Manta are both good for the speed and gives you more HP, but their main abilities are not really helpful. Blink and forcestaff are 2 highly recommended core items as it lets you do amazing things with this hero. You can blink in and forcestaff out after ulting an enemy or blink away and force staff further to evade while in firefly.

But it isn't just about moving faster, remember napalm slows your enemy and so shiva is a great item to both slow your opponents, damage them, armor for tanking, and lets you play the hit and run strategy.


Tanking:
To tank requires both hitpoint and armor. You may think of heart right away, but I always recommend a combination of items for bulk that gives you extra abilities. For example, linken is great as your hero do not want to be stunned. Likewise bloodstone will give you manareg. Skadi in this case is not really that helpful unless you want to go offensive and attack with the frost while they're slowed. Shiva is good as explained above and BM sometimes when necessary against harassers. I believe veil of discord also gives armor? I rarely get this item, so I didn't check. But if it does, then it is a great item for Bat as you also can use the AOE magic resistance reduction. Guinsoo is also always a good support item.


AOE Damage:
Since your hero is AOE, hence any AOE damage items are great in helping increase his damage potentials in lategame. Shiva and Veil are both highly recommended in sense they help AOE, gives armor, and shiva even slows the enemy. Another great item is Mjolnir as the castable deals massive damage while you create a fire perimeter. If game goes well and you are not in need of any speed or tank items, a radiance could be a good addition to straight up AOE damage.


So Item Core Recommendations: (Though not necessarily all together, but in recommended order of importance)
- Blink (speed)
- BoT (speed)
- Forcestaff (speed)
- Euls/SNY/Manta (speed)
- Shiva (tank, speed, aoe)
- Veil of Dis (tank, aoe)
- Mjolnir (aoe)
- Bloodstone/Linken (tank)
- radiance (aoe)
- Other good items not necessarily for this hero - BM, Guinsoo, etc...

Now some people like to have fun and get dagon or even go skadi DPS to build on napalm. Again, those can be effective in some sense, but generally I think it is not a good trade off as this hero is really meant as an AOE crowd controller. Also, don't bother with Urn, that's illegal in ENT pub games.

Since there are so many items above, you have to find a combination that works for you in the game. Typically I would always get BoT, then Blink. After that depending on the game, I may get a Euls/sny/manta for speed or a forcestaff, but never both. Sometimes I wouldn't get any of them if the game doesn't really require that much speed and you can go directly to a shiva or even a radiance. Remember, the forcestaff is a 2ndary escape item since you already have flamebreak.


Early Game Set Up:
I'm not going to go through all 3 stages, just the early game as most people tend to not know how to play Bat early and often feeds. There are "various" ways to play him early, you can get flamebreak early as a safety and get mana reg to spam it. But my preferred way is just tank it and get kills early. I start with either boots, ring of protection, or blunt shield. Preferable Boots + ring. Your first ability can be either napalm and firefly. Against noobs, I go napalm and start spamming them early. Most of them won't bother to retreat and you will have stacked 6-7 times when you reach level 2 for firefly. Go straight in and kill them both.

In most instances, decent players who still don't really know how dangerous napalm is, I attack at level 3 with level 2 napalm and level 1 firefly. Even at level 1 napalm, it is increase of 10 damage per sticky. Level 2 firefly is 40 dps, 2 level 1 napalm already make up the difference. So level 2 napalm at 15 dps increase is definitely > level 2 firefly if you can get just 2 stickies. The ring of protection or a blunt shield allows you to tower dive a little if necessary to kill. Once you successfully killed them, get a ring of health from the side shop. Then your 1st core, which was not mentioned above, is actually VG. With VG and Ring of Bas/Aqui early, you can pretty much tower dive when necessary.

Either way, I always level napalm to 4 first with level 2 firefly and ult by 7. Then finish firefly before flamebreak. I know this contradicts the fundamental of nukes, which should always get early, but this is one of the exceptions. If you are having problems early, it is recommended to get flamebreak lvl 1 earlier to help you escape.

At this point, I would either get blink or BoT since you already have VG to tank. Now if you don't like VG, you can get the boosters necessary to build bloodstone instead. Saves money and more efficient, but you don't get that heal. Once I have VG, BoT, Blink, RoA, then everything else is situational from the item list above.


Conclusion: Example with Slark
If you practice with this hero enough, you'll notice he is a nuisance to the enemy. He may not be able to solo a slark, but he can throw his rhythm off or just majorly harass him.

Say slark lothars up to the Bat and pounces. Use flamebreak to push him back so he can't attack and also dodge his DP. Then napalm him. Once the pounce link is gone, you forcestaff away and napalm him again. With BoT and one of the movement items, you can move rather quickly. His lothar is CD but he may use his ult to catch up, don't panic. Blink if you can, or just keep napalming him while in firefly mode. If you have shiva, use it. Once flamebreak CD, use it again. All this hopefully buys you time for your teammates to arrive. If they have a SB, recommended you just run unless your teammates are responding. Remember you also have tank items so you are not easily taken down like most INT heroes. You hit and run with napalm until he is sticky when your teammates show up. Dust and kill. DP can remove sticky, I believe, but most slarks won't use it unless he is attacking b/c he wants to do the damage. (they probably will now, reading this. lol)

Most situations, slarks will just leave you alone b/c you're not an easy target to kill. In the scenario above, you have a high % of escape as Slarks mostly won't use his ult to chase you unless SB is charging. And without some sort of invisible, even with SNY he cannot out run a bat with napalm and BoT/sny etc.. If he did use his ult, that's good as he wasted it and if your teammates showed up, you just run him down. Most likely he will save his ult and just run away, like a hungry wolf.

But this is just an example of harassment. The true strength in Bat is controlling that crowd and spamming his gunk on the enemy in teamfights or team chases. Remember, napalm is his bread and butter.
Last edited by nitromon on Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Merex
Oversight Staff
Posts: 6626
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 11:45 pm
Location: United States
Has thanked: 297 times
Been thanked: 175 times

Re: DOTA Guide - Batrider

Postby Merex » Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:50 am

Excellent guide. Thank you for providing these to the community.

Although a question - Wouldn't bottle be ideal for a Bat? If mobility is key, then bottle and river-rune refills shouldn't be an issue.

Nevertheless, as someone who doesn't play bat much, will be quite interesting to test some of this myself. :)
These users thanked the author Merex for the post:
nitromon (Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:07 am)
The Slap God - An EoC Story
  • ENT Rules, Guides and more can be found on our Wiki.
  • Contact the staff & interact with others by joining our Discord.
  • Now available: Host A Game UI.

nitromon
Treant
Posts: 486
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 2:32 pm
Has thanked: 42 times
Been thanked: 33 times

Re: DOTA Guide - Batrider

Postby nitromon » Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:07 am

Merex wrote:Excellent guide. Thank you for providing these to the community.

Although a question - Wouldn't bottle be ideal for a Bat? If mobility is key, then bottle and river-rune refills shouldn't be an issue.

Nevertheless, as someone who doesn't play bat much, will be quite interesting to test some of this myself. :)


Hey thanks! Lemme know how your testings come out. As for bottle, every player has their preferences so not all the items are ever covered. I don't use bottle at all, so that's why it never comes to mind. Primarily because I rarely get runes in games since there are a lot of players that argue and fight over them. :? I try to avoid conflicts in my game. This is also why I never solo. I would imagine a solo Bat mid would do well with bottle especially Bat is an excellent early ganker.

Another early item I never use is the magic wand. I've seen people use them well, in fact magic wand works well against Bat b/c you get a charge for each napalm. It's all preference. ;)

User avatar
Merex
Oversight Staff
Posts: 6626
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 11:45 pm
Location: United States
Has thanked: 297 times
Been thanked: 175 times

Re: DOTA Guide - Batrider

Postby Merex » Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:43 am

nitromon wrote:
Merex wrote:Excellent guide. Thank you for providing these to the community.

Although a question - Wouldn't bottle be ideal for a Bat? If mobility is key, then bottle and river-rune refills shouldn't be an issue.

Nevertheless, as someone who doesn't play bat much, will be quite interesting to test some of this myself. :)


Hey thanks! Lemme know how your testings come out. As for bottle, every player has their preferences so not all the items are ever covered. I don't use bottle at all, so that's why it never comes to mind. Primarily because I rarely get runes in games since there are a lot of players that argue and fight over them. :? I try to avoid conflicts in my game. This is also why I never solo. I would imagine a solo Bat mid would do well with bottle especially Bat is an excellent early ganker.

Another early item I never use is the magic wand. I've seen people use them well, in fact magic wand works well against Bat b/c you get a charge for each napalm. It's all preference. ;)

I see.

Well, just played a game with bat and it went very smooth. 9-4 with many assists, had a pretty functioning team up until it got ruined but it's alright. I could've avoided a death or 2 but overall I see his concept nice and clear.
Items: RoB, travs, dagger, shivas & vg. (Got vg first and got some sweet tower dives ;) )

I'd like to see you put out a guide for Erader. (Shadow demon I believe?) I'd like to see your insights/strategic uses for him because mostly I just see people go dagon and that hardly seems ideal (although fun I'm sure). He's been a hero I've wanted to try.
These users thanked the author Merex for the post:
nitromon (Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:52 am)
The Slap God - An EoC Story
  • ENT Rules, Guides and more can be found on our Wiki.
  • Contact the staff & interact with others by joining our Discord.
  • Now available: Host A Game UI.

nitromon
Treant
Posts: 486
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 2:32 pm
Has thanked: 42 times
Been thanked: 33 times

Re: DOTA Guide - Batrider

Postby nitromon » Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:52 am

Merex wrote:(Got vg first and got some sweet tower dives ;) )


He's all about early game tower dives. People don't expect it. ;)

Merex wrote: I'd like to see you put out a guide for Erader. (Shadow demon I believe?) I'd like to see your insights/strategic uses for him because mostly I just see people go dagon and that hardly seems ideal (although fun I'm sure). He's been a hero I've wanted to try.


D'OH! Unfortunately, he is one of the heroes that I've never really played. I would not know what to do with him. :lol:

phuphew
Armored Tree
Posts: 79
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2015 3:25 pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: DOTA Guide - Batrider

Postby phuphew » Fri Feb 15, 2019 10:41 am

Thanks for the guide.
When I play Bat, I usually play him Solo Mid and if my enemy doesnt really know Bats Napalm, i mostly get fb at lvl 2. If my enemy is aware of Napalm, they go back and dont even try to get some more lasthits (especially melees). Bat with Napalm is dominating midlane, unless you are not playing vs Pugna.
I get Boots first item, and a bottle as fast as possible. With bottle, I can towerdive and heal up immediately after the kill, moving to rune spot and bottle the rune for another 3 charges. I can then gank bot/top lane (maybe with invis/haste/dd from rune). From then it's just about killing. Your enemy solomid maybe lvl 3, while you are lvl 5 with napalm lvl 3 already, making it impossible to escape, even with boots. I follow with force staff in most cases, because in this stage of the game you should be so overfarmed and overleveled, that your enemys wont even touch you anyways (unless they gank you as 5). With force staff, it's gettin even more easy to come close to your enemy or to escape (better save for escape). If I really got like 6 kills and other team doesnt look like they gonna catch up, I build HoT immediately, otherwise I get Vanguard (in most cases it's vanguard). I dont play him with dagger, cause actually it's never a problem to get close to your enemy. But if you are close, you should just survive as long as possible, cause the longer you are alive, the more napalm stacks are up. With firefly you can even kill the whole enemy team if they are chasing you and they got a high amount of stacks of napalm.
I continue with Hot if i got a vanguard before , and then Linkens if necessary. At this stage bat gets weaker and weaker in my opinion. It takes too long to stack up napalm to really deal big dmg combined with firefly. It's more like you stack napalm so they are immobilized. You really rely on your team. The enemys will focus you down first in many cases. So try to kite and run, let your team deal damage. Just stay alive. I continue with sheep or shivas, depending on enemy heros.
These users thanked the author phuphew for the post:
nitromon (Fri Feb 15, 2019 11:33 pm)


Return to “Strategy”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests