king juggling clarification

[matdas]

Intentionally preventing the king from killing or attacking units (king juggling) is forbidden. Whereas switching the target to kill sent (priority) units is allowed.


This means that if you can only switch targets to priority units. Units that are sent from barracks are an exception. Other than that, you must kill the unit that it is attacking.

with this rule, u are still allowed to let hermit stay alive lvl 1-5 and stuff like this, since its ALLOWED to swap target for killing sends, but u dont HAVE TO.

You can leave the hermit alive, but once you dont switch targets from an almost dead unit to a unit with more hp, then that is a violation of the rule.

so its allowed to let the hermit live and shift targets between hits? (at least that's what I understand)
that is if you have 10 unit you hit 1 unit then shift to unit 2 then hit then shift and so on to keep the circle going. the creeps will heal.
but not allowed to shift targets without hit,

question is how to best describe this in a clear and concise manner.
King juggling is prohibited. Shifting targets without king hit more than once.
micro management is allowed. Shifting targets and strategically choosing which to hit.

just my 2 cents

No, you cannot change targets to let the units live with the hermit. If you choose not to kill the send, then you must kill the creep. You cannot switch to let the creep heal. That is considered juggling now. If you switch targets to let them live, it is also a violation. The only way it is not, is if you switch from creep to send and target less HP units and kill them. (switching from full hp unit to one with for example half hp. such as killing the lowest hp lvl 10 boss when they arrive at the king)

Hermit scenario: 10 units 1 hermit. If you choose to let the hermit live, you must kill the units that are there. You cannot go 1 hit, switch, 1 hit, switch, repeat AT ALL. Meaning, that if you one hit a crab, switch to the hermit, one hit hermit, switch to crab, this is also juggling. If you target hermit, kill it. If you don't target the hermit, then you NEED to kill the creeps.

Cross scenario: Everyone leaks lvl 12 but the value cross. Creeps are at king, King cannot switch between creeps to keep them alive. The king must kill them. If there are ballistas, locks, militia, fine KILL those first, then proceed to KILL the rest of the creeps.

There are no ands, ifs, or buts about this. There are no loop holes. If you try to make one, expect yourself to be banned. If you cry about not knowing, that's your own fault because I will deny any appeal for those who try to say "i didn't know you couldn't do that, i thought this...." or anything related to that.

[GoatsBeGone]

I dont understand why this is even an active topic; all that needed to be in this rule is simple; use your head, no reason to be an idiot.. How hard is it to just think and play normal.

[Diablo_]

I would agree with you if "semi juggle"/"micro delay" would also be banned ... then it would be a clear "just don't abuse" rule. But since it's allowed it's imo a pretty artificial rule which goes beyond "just use your head"

[Akitos]

I would agree with you if "semi juggle"/"micro delay" would also be banned ...

Uhm, they are. Changing targets in order to let them alive, aka getting more time by switching targets, is also bannable now.

[Krumme]

ok so how about switching targets so the king spins as much as possible every time it has to hit (180 degrees) is that legal? because if it isn't why not just change the rule to the same as we have in LIHL so that any king control with the intention of gaining more time/gold/lumber is illegal ?

As it's done rigth now it's not illegal to switch targets to gain more time/gold/lumber as long as you kill the sends first and the minions one by one after this. You can easily manipulate the king so you hit the minions furthers from each other to gain more time or slight delay the kings attack when you change from minion to minion

[Diablo_]

I would agree with you if "semi juggle"/"micro delay" would also be banned ...

Uhm, they are. Changing targets in order to let them alive, aka getting more time by switching targets, is also bannable now.

That's not what I mean. I'm refering to the "manually click every new target so you cancel the king's auto attack to restart the attack on your clicked target" abuse which gives an extra 0.2-0.5s per target and is allowed because it's seen as "strategy".
I don't really care about it, it's dumb to allow it imo, but it's no big deal so w/e. Just wanted to respond to Goats comment

Yes, that's also allowed Krumme, the new rule simply means that you can't switch between (non-send) creeps without killing them (so if you hit one, you have to kill it).

[matdas]

ok so how about switching targets so the king spins as much as possible every time it has to hit (180 degrees) is that legal? because if it isn't why not just change the rule to the same as we have in LIHL so that any king control with the intention of gaining more time/gold/lumber is illegal ?

As long as you kill the target. That is fine. The hole point is the part about NOT killing the creeps or sends to gain full minutes and less abuse on crossers.

As it's done rigth now it's not illegal to switch targets to gain more time/gold/lumber as long as you kill the sends first and the minions one by one after this. You can easily manipulate the king so you hit the minions furthers from each other to gain more time or slight delay the kings attack when you change from minion to minion

This is also fine. As long as you kill your intended target before switching to a new one.

I would agree with you if "semi juggle"/"micro delay" would also be banned ...

Uhm, they are. Changing targets in order to let them alive, aka getting more time by switching targets, is also bannable now.

That's not what I mean. I'm refering to the "manually click every new target so you cancel the king's auto attack to restart the attack on your clicked target" abuse which gives an extra 0.2-0.5s per target and is allowed because it's seen as "strategy".
I don't really care about it, it's dumb to allow it imo, but it's no big deal so w/e. Just wanted to respond to Goats comment

Yes, that's also allowed Krumme, the new rule simply means that you can't switch between (non-send) creeps without killing them (so if you hit one, you have to kill it).

Intentionally preventing the king from killing or attacking units. Switching targets manually from LIHL people will result in bans. You all know better. Stop trying to bend the rules. Be the pro's that you all claim LIHL is about.

[Diablo_]

The rule is not about gold or time. It is to clarify the fact that micro-juggling (attack animation delayed by 0.3 seconds due to switching a target to kill it) is allowed.
Whether you thereby get more gold or time doesn't matter as it is considered a strategy.

micro juggling = switching the units
switching target = allowed.

So what is it? You guys need to make up your mind. If not even the Admins know what the rule means, how should other players do?

[matdas]

i've seen what some of you guys do (lihl players). And its not micro juggling from some of them. i've seen them waste 2-3 hits and claim not juggling. Let's be real here. Sure the 1 hit is fine to miss. But when i've seen 2-3 or more from lihl, and they claimed it was not juggling. That is the line i am drawing at.

[aRt)Y]

It is to clarify the fact that micro-juggling (attack animation delayed by 0.3 seconds due to switching a target to kill it) is allowed.
Whether you thereby get more gold or time doesn't matter as it is considered a strategy.

micro juggling = switching the units/targets = switching target = allowed.

So what is it? You guys need to make up your mind. If not even the Admins know what the rule means, how should other players do?

Where's the contradiction? I explained in both cases that switching the targets as long as you kill the unit is allowed. Dont tell me you didnt understand it because I didnt mention the word "kill" in the second quote. The whole thread is based on the rule which exactly states that.

As it's done rigth now it's not illegal to switch targets to gain more time/gold/lumber

The rule is not about gold or time.

Before any of you further comments on this, please read the 6 pages suggestion thread so you actually know which details are to be addressed and which not. The rule itself is fairly easy to understand and it seems only the expert knowledge of lihl and whatnot seems to create confusion here.

Sure the 1 hit is fine to miss.

Which was the only reason we added the "malicious intent" part; it gives the moderator the space to judge whether what the player did was by mistake or crossed the red line. The current rule makes it stricter; worse for the players.

[Krumme]

How is LIHL players any different than any others? and why should LIHL players be treated any different? that makes no sense to me but if you want to make a sidenote that says "all player above 1500 ELO will be treated differently as they are supposedly smart" - sure go ahead but don't treat LIHL players any different than regular public players - we are all humans with a brain and commen sense

[matdas]

it's the lihl players who are the ones causing the micro delays to become longer than they should be. Please re-read what i wrote about the 2-3 hits that are not completed and how it is claimed not juggling (which in this case, it will be instead of being a bent rule)

About your common sense and human with a brain:
If you could answer these simple easy questions:
Why do people feed on purpose?
Why do people leave games when it is not over and join the next?
Why do people afk and reset afk to prevent getting kicked?
Why do people team kill?
Why do people map hack?
Why do they dodge bans?

All of these are common sense rules. Although we are all human, even the most common rules are not so common. A person with a brain can understand that these are bad things to do. Once we have zero ban requests given and zero bans placed for an entire week with bans or requests placed into our systems, then and only then can you say people have common sense and use their brains.

[Krumme]

Aight if you don't want to see it from our point of view go ahead and treat LIHL players differently but it makes no sense to me that LIHL players is any different from most of the public players and afaik most LIHL players is fair and square people with no desire or intention to abuse game mechanics in pub games that they already have a bigger chance of winning - but sure if you want to judge LIHL players on a few rotten apples go ahead.

You see my reason to be upset? That you make LIHL players a special group of people - we do not play any different than most public players in public games and should have the same boundries as everyone else - don't look at the name, look at the ban history and the offense made
I don't see any place it says that LIHL players should have any higher responsibilty to the rules than anyone else

[matdas]

It's those rotten apples of both pub and lihl that force us to draw the lines.

Look at NWU for example, there is no stats for it anymore. Why? because a few bad apples decided to ruin it for everyone else.

Why do we have rules? because a few bad apples decided to go around team killing, feeding on purpose, etc, etc, etc..... I treasure those who play by the rules. I am proud of them. Unlike you lihl members, pubs can't choose who can play in their games......