Unranked Legion TD Bot

[Hakuna]

U say that i repeat myself, well yea, i do. Because u refuse to hear that mega is bad bot, and its meant for newbies. But thats just how it is.

It is considered a sign of insanity when you say the same thing over and over with no change. If you are convinced that you are correct you need to use better arguments, because we are not just saying "You are wrong", like you are, we are offering intelligent and well-written counter arguments which you are not doing.

[Vendeta]

I gave lots of reasons why mega is noob bot.

Its supposed not to be needed to explain that mega is noob bot.
It is created for new players to learn some basics, and then level up untill 1200, and only to go lihl after it, if they have urge to play more competitive games.

That is all summed up in one sentence that u need to hear, so i wont "repeat", nor explain anything again. You guys are just some randoms who are stuck in mega, and refuse to hear about better game, or learn it, so u just stick to what u know, and trying to justify your position.

Jabba already told u u are not getting new bot for new players, cuz its simple not worth making it. And also there already is a bot for new players called "MEGA".

Im done with this argument, peace out !

[Hakuna]

@Vendeta
Here is all the things you have said here:

Just try learn enuff to get 1200 elo, then go to 1200elo bot.

When u get there, try to learn enuff, and observe some lihl games, and try join lihl.

And thats the best what u can do if u like this game. Dealing with mega, new players, etc, is waste of time.

But my advice to you is to get some friends with whom u can play this game. Thats the best way to play, and enjoy this game, since u will always have tkers, flamers, ego-maniacs and idiots. Play with friends and have fun.

You didn't give any reasons why it's a bot for noobs in this post. All you said was that the players who play it are tkers, flamers, ego-maniacs, and idiots. That is not a reason.

Well okay, i only wanted to help u, and instead of that i get flamed

U trying to make yourself look smart with long posts, which noone will read (including me, i read maybe half of it).

But try to understand that u wont get new bot. Not a chance. U say how u like cross ? Play cross then with newbies, and keep quiet about it, instead of asking ent to move them away from u, but telling me how u appreciate new players. Fuck off. Pure contradiction.

Try to understand, since u are so clever, and u have a lot experience, and bla bla, whatever u wrote, there is a reason why is cross only allowed in mega. In lowest, noobiest bot. In worst bot where any fool with just a bit of ltd knowledge goes with new account (smurf) and makes like 25/2 score. Thats how bad that bot is.

I clicked on your link. I clicked on builds, saw 1st unit wolverine. U typed: "Wave 1: Build three Orc Warriors and upgrade them to Blood Orc Warriors. [300g value]".
And that was enuff for me to see how u wasted your time to create this LTD Wiki, and if u learn new players to play like that... or if YOU are playing like that then, sir, i have to say you are a noob.

All i was trying to tell u is that u cant learn anything in mega. And that u should seek for more competitive games. But u are just pure noob mega player who likes noob cross, and u should stick with mega, and deal with your new players, as u said u enjoy it.

So, with all being sad, i have nothing else for you, i wish u all the best, and happy gaming.

Peace !

You say here that what makes MEGA the bot for noobs is the fact that smurfs can be extremely successful. That is not a reason, that is in fact one of the problems that is attempting to be solved with this thread. Also, I notice that you feel justified in calling me out for what you consider bad advice but you don't even offer a counter-proposal. I'm sure you would prefer just building two Blood Orc Warriors for wave 1, but you would also leak to a warriors send at least 1/2 the time, which is why I suggested the way I did. I also am suggesting builds for noobs, which means I err on the side of caution giving them more value so that they won't leak and fall behind, which is harder for a noob to recover from.

U guys are so terroble wrong. U want new bot just for new players so that they can learn options, metas, and tactics? Who will teach them that? U would have a bot with bunch of newbies who doesnt know what they doing at all, with noone to show them anything.

U want more competitive and better games, without newbies, but u want do get that without leaving noob bottom bot? Mega is disagned for that actually, so that new players can learn some basics in this game, and when they get pretty much normal player (1200+ elo) they can go on a bot which is a bit different, but for sure more competitive than mega. So u cant ask to get a new bot for noobs amd newbies, when u already have that and its called Mega.

As for the smurfs, some people go with firends in mega to play for fun with friends, but they dont wamt to ruin their stas on main account, or they just have hogh accounts, amd they dont wamt 5o play for 2 elo, and risking 28. I guess its a waste of time for ent moderators, who already have a lot on their hands, to starts searchijg for smurfs, catching bunch of players, just so u could feel comfortable in yoir mega cross game.

My advoce for u is the same:
Get 1200 elo, get out of mega, play some 1200, get more experience, and fry join LIHL. If u already that competitive. U say that you play mega 4 years now, i can tell u that u have simply wasted a lot of time.

U guys just have to realise, the new bot u are asking for is already there, and its called MEGA.So yes, any time u ask for mods to get u a new bot, because u wamt mega to be mlre competitive, u will ALWAYS get the same answer: u want more competitive games? Go play 1200, or lihl. U dont get better than that.

You repeated yourself here. You said the bot exists for smurfing on and for noobs. You gave no reasons why this is true, you just said it and expect me to agree with no reasons.

Dude then its your "responsibility" to explain to them why are they building as being told.

And 1200 bot is not a "different game". Its the same game, just a with a players who think a bit more "outside of the box". Mega players are just limited, and they cant and WONT understand when u talk to them about something new, or different, which is in 99% of cases better.

Every older player knows mega is bottom of the scale, that it is for newbies and noobs who cant/wont learn anything new. so they just stay there playing limited, and boring cross games.

Here you make a claim that both bots are the same game. I take issue with this immediately. They do not have the same rules, they do not have the same meta, they do not have all the same players. They are not the same game to me, and are not the same game to many. You are asserting a point again with no reasons and I find it completely false.

@Hakuna
So first u flame me, now u calling me out cuz i missed couple letters, okay. And in the middle of it, u even apologize. Sounds like a legit mega player. Fyi i was typing on phone, thats why so many mistakes.

Again, realise, cross is for noobs. Is for players who dont know how to play solo lanes. Sharing 12 units into 1 lane, auras, hard t6, that is super noob.

On ENT site, u can read "if u want more competitive games, try our 1200 bot".
What does that mean ? It means MEGA is for noobs, its lowest bot that u could have, there is no lower than that. And it means cross should stay in noob bot, like designed, and if u want to play it, then u also need to deal with newbies, noobs and terrible gameplay.

It looks to me like none of u is ready to learn anything new, u all live "inside the box", u just want to continue crossing and play noob games, but without new guys who would ruin that for you. So either accept it, cuz like jabba said, u wont get what u asking for, and play as it is, or try to move from your "noob" spot and learn something new about this game.

You would be right if Mega was a normal, competitive bot, but it isnt, it is bot for new players to learn basics, and to move on. Not to be stuck there for decades, and then cry all over the forum how its bad.

Peace!

You now make the argument that because the ENT staff consider 1200+ to be a higher skill bot, therefore it is. I don't argue that on average the players in 1200+ have more experience, but that isn't to say that there is less skill required or less intelligence behind the plays. I again would argue that the addition of factors such as splitting and delay mean that there is more to keep track of when you cross, not less. It also allows for units that aren't viable as holder units in solo lanes to become strong enough to be holders in a cross, while other units which are normally good as holders in solo are not good in a cross, such as yggdrasil.

You also assert that it is not a "normal competitive bot", which again I disagree. It has ELO. It has meta. It has an active, consistent playerbase.
It most certainly is normal and most certainly is competitive. You don't earn money for winning games in 1200+. There is no reason why you can claim 1200+ is more competitive than MEGA. The only argument that makes any sense for your position is that 1200+ will reject people and MEGA will not.

There is no such thing as pro mega player. Mega metas with cross and shit are just terrible.

I just tryed to give u good advice in the first place, telling u that if u want more competitive games U WONT GET IT IN MEGA, and that if u already spend so much time loving this game, then try to improve, instead of wasting your time in mega.

But, u guys just dont want to hear it, instead of it, you are trying to justify mega metas and cross to me, which cant happen, because, i repeat, mega is lowest noob bot. There is a reason why is an insult when u call someone "mega".

Nothing new here.

Anyone can play cross. Not everyone can play solo. Thats the "noob" difference.

I directly disagree with this reason you gave, as I stated in my response to it.

U say that i repeat myself, well yea, i do. Because u refuse to hear that mega is bad bot, and its meant for newbies. But thats just how it is.

Nothing new here.

I gave lots of reasons why mega is noob bot.

Its supposed not to be needed to explain that mega is noob bot.
It is created for new players to learn some basics, and then level up untill 1200, and only to go lihl after it, if they have urge to play more competitive games.

That is all summed up in one sentence that u need to hear, so i wont "repeat", nor explain anything again. You guys are just some randoms who are stuck in mega, and refuse to hear about better game, or learn it, so u just stick to what u know, and trying to justify your position.

Jabba already told u u are not getting new bot for new players, cuz its simple not worth making it. And also there already is a bot for new players called "MEGA".

Im done with this argument, peace out !

So as you can see, you offered very few reasons overall and all of them I responded to with what I would call more thorough responses. You on the other hand never responded to my responses to you with anything other than just jabs at my intelligence. Your argument style lacks form and you just aren't good at laying out a good case. You also have atrocious spelling and being on a phone honestly is no excuse. I never asked you to respond immediately, if you wanted to wait until you got home on the computer I would have been fine with it. You were the one who chose to respond while on a phone and to be impatient enough not to spell correctly. I for myself spell correctly whether on the computer or on the phone but I tend not to write long things while on the phone because sometimes it loses what I was typing which is extremely annoying.

[Hakuna]

Let me give an example of the sort of argument I would expect from someone in your position, and the responses I would have for it:

Vendeta: Mega is a bot for new players because there aren't as many rules. This lets new players try more things without having to worry about breaking rules.

Hakuna: Alright, this is a good point, but given the differences in the rules a different meta has developed which deserves its own competitive opportunities. The cross meta is matured to the point that it warrants its own 1200+ bot, in my opinion.

Vendeta: Crossing is not a well-developed meta. It is too easy and doesn't require as much skill as building in a solo lane.

Hakuna: I disagree. While this may have been true at one point when crossing first was being experimented with, but nowadays the meta revolving around crossing is much more varied and has a lot of factors to it. Crossing gets punished much harder now than it used to and people know how to play against it. It also is very easy to get behind and almost impossible to catch up once you are behind.

Vendeta: Crossing may be different than it used to be but so is building solo. Solo building requires greater skill because you can't rely on someone else to do the work for you.

Hakuna: When you build in a cross you don't always get to be the income. Someone has to be the value, and sometimes both people trying to do it are noobs. One of them is being required to do the work of building and it isn't easy to hold two sides while keeping at least a minimum amount of push. If you hold both sides but are severely underpushed then you might as well be throwing the game, so it's not as easy as you say.

Vendeta: It still doesn't require near as much skill to build in a cross as to build solo. When you are solo as yolo you have to hold or nearly hold all waves except the hardest with minimal value so that you can push a lot. This is extremely hard to do. As holder you have to be extremely good because you aren't getting fed from allies leaks very much since their leaks become worth 0 before long, so you have to manage to build your units pretty much perfectly in order to hold for the leaks on key waves but you can't afford to be underpushed either or the same situation you described occurs where you are throwing the game on account of you can't send with team.

Hakuna: Alright I admit you make some very good points. The solo meta does have many factors involved in it that aren't present in the cross meta. I will concede that the solo meta is more difficult than the cross meta, but that still doesn't change the fact that there are many players who enjoy playing in the cross meta and still have their strategies within it. The size of the playerbase which agrees with this is quite large and I think therefore deserves the attention given to the solo meta crowd. It's not fair to treat cross meta as complete noob just because it requires less skill than the solo meta, it still involves skill and it still is enjoyed by many players, which is why I say there should be an unranked bot so that players get introduced to the game without costing the other players ELO for their mistakes.

Vendeta: Yeah but that isn't how the game was meant to be played. You are just taking advantage of a glitch in the game that was never intended. That's why it is disabled in 1200+ because it's how the game was supposed to be played.

Hakuna: K fine but at this point it's how a lot of people want to play. Why is it so wrong to have a competitive bot for the people who prefer to play like that. Games are for fun, it doesn't have to just be up to the developer which meta is considered the preferred one or the competitive one. If I knew how to develop maps and had the permission to do it then I'd probably be willing to put in some time myself, because I think the cross meta is complex and fun.

Vendeta: You aren't the dev and he can decide whatever he wants and if you don't like it then you can just go play something else. Crying about it here won't get you anywhere.

Hakuna: I acknowledge that the dev gets the choice of what happens to the map but I mean this suggestions forum exists for a reason. I'm just saying what I think makes sense and what a lot of people like. Of course at the end of the day none of us get a say but neither do you. You are just on the in-group currently since the game is how you like it but I am saying a lot of people would appreciate it if there was a competitive bot for the cross meta.

Vendeta: Good luck but I don't see it ever happening.

Hakuna: Well thanks for your input.

[Vendeta]

Boy if u think i will read all this u are crazy.

You said u watched only 1 lihl game (i think?), and u didnt play 1200. Which confirms that you are clueless about LTD game itself. You made ltd wiki ? Good job for that, spending time on something like that, but again, its a waste of time since most of it is bad info. But i guess everyone has right to talk as much as they want.

Its simple, most of u guys cant get to 1200 elo, i bet even u dont have 1200 elo, but u talk like u know everything about game, so u need to have some experience and game LTD knowledge to get to that 1200 elo, so u could play in different bot. Which means, cuz its separated by elo, u need higher elo to get into that other bot, it says itself its more competitive, and a lot of better players are there. If anyone needs to explain that to you, then dude, u should be quiet and play with your mega friends.

I saw u mentioned wolverines; i think wolverines are EASIEST unit to play with. And u prooved u dont even know how to play them. First u write that u need 3 bo on level 1 (300 value), which is pure tk. Then u say "okay, u can go 2bo (200 value), but it can also leak warrs", which, again, is also tk. Why ? Because every normal, regular ltd player (no mega like u) knows 2bo+2 small holds 1 with warriors + u got 2/0 start. There, a little lession for you.

U look like u are simple mad at me, cuz, i guess u are tired of newbies on mega, but u still want to play mega, cuz thats everything u can do. So u know im right, and u know u wont get new bot (ofc), so u attack me personally, and talking about my spelling (english is not my main language). I can speak, and write your main language so that u can understand everything, if u could do that on my languague i would aplaud to you, not making fun of u. Thats where your showing "inteligence" goes down the toilet, and proving u are just one mad underaged guy, hiding behind the screen, trying to show himself above anyone, when you are obviusly lower than me with nothing else but just your ridicolous making fun of my spelling, when Serbian is my main language.

You have 2 accounts, both of them together have like 500 games, and yet you give urself right to make ltd wiki, with bunch of innacurate info, and tk stuff, and plus trying to get rid of new players, to get a bot just for them, when, im afraid, u are a newbie aswell, 500 games are nothing in this game. There are players (like me) who play this for years.

U want proof that mega is noob bot ? I just gave you; it is players like u who build 300gold wolverine on level 1. Thats all the proof u need.

You still strugling with this thread, saying how there must be competitive bot for cross? U got your answer like days a go from jabba?

So in the end, i responded on this thread with a small reply, saying that u should get more competitive games on 1200 or lihl later, because mega is noob bot, u looked hyped for the game, so all i wanted is to help u get over that mega. But u pushing your story that cross is op, that mega is op, that u are inteligent, and i cant spell english... + u used some flame words, i wont repeat, u know what they are, so, im sorry it came to this, but are just low as human, and u cant accept that u wont get what u want, and that im right and ur wrong, and being so dissrespective when all i wanted is to help u shows me that u belong in mega, u think u know everything so u even made ltd wiki (when u clearly dont), so do everyone a favour and stay there.

Dont dissrespect if someone doesnt spell your language right, that just means they speak other language. That showed to me that you are low as a person.

@jabba41 u should lock this, its going nowhere.

[HodoR_]

@Hakuna brings a detailed topic, presenting an issue (in his opinion) in regards to the new players experience.

@Vendeta puts forth his opinion, bringing nothing constructive to this topic, smearing shit all over the forum as usual. Thank you for stating facts, didn't know there was a 1200 bot. Then he gets triggered, saying he gets insulted and flamed. Okay cool story bro, you done? Why are you even posting if you're never going to play on mega or any other new possible bot?

Also why are you asking for the topic to get closed? Hakuna is actually trying to improve this community, giving out ideas. @Hakuna is correct, if you disregard new players, any community will slowly die. This kind of elitist attitude that you've demonstrated Vendeta is really pointless and serves no purpose other than to piss people off and show off that you're a *lihl player*.

[Hakuna]

@Vendeta
Allora, tu stai dicendo che io non parlo la tua lingua madre, ma e infatti tu chi sei su questo sito quale INGLESE. Non e il mio problemo che tu non puoi parlare inglese bene, ma infatti, tu parli abbastanza bene, e solo che non scrivi bene. Questo e un piccolo problemo che puoi risolvere semplicemente se volevete, ma non lo vuoi. Ancora, non e il mio problemo.

I also have not said anything disrespectfully. You took offence at my pointing out that if you wrote proper English your points would be more convincing. It's no different than your advice to me, which offended me, and which I apologized for but you don't seem to care. Anyway doesn't really matter, you can stay mad if you want. But calling me a low human being is just false. You are clearly the one being petty here not me.

As for my information on the wiki being incorrect, I don't notice you offering to contribute to it, which if you cared to look into it you would know that I am looking for contributors. That's the thing about a wiki. It's not supposed to just be a handbook that someone writes alone for everyone to benefit. I want other people with more experience than me to help, but nobody is willing. I do my best with the knowledge I have, and apparently that isn't good enough for you. I also never claimed to be a complete expert but the information I provided is for noobs so that they won't leak, not for pros so that they have the minimum amount built to hold without leaking. My aim was to provide a stable basis for people to start learning and the goal was that they would learn from it and experiment to find out new ways to play once they became comfortable.

You completely misrepresented me when you said that I said cross is op and mega is op. I said no such thing. I said that I enjoy crossing and that I think the meta is complex and worthwhile and that a lot of people enjoy it. That isn't at all the same thing as saying it's op. It's the opposite. I'm saying it is a balanced meta that has plenty of pros and cons to it and deserves to have a competitive scene because of the playerbase who enjoy it.

I see no reason why this should be shut down. I think the discussion has been plenty fruitful, even if you are unwilling to admit any of our points are valid and just keep parroting your same line about how noobs belong in mega so I must be a noob since I like the cross meta.

I'll also just add here that although I don't speak Serbian, I do have Croat cousins and did learn a bit of Croatian from them, so I don't think I'm the underaged ignorant person you believe me to be. I am far more interested in cultural exchange and experienced with world travel than most people I know here in Canada.

[Crusafix]

I think this is a rather interesting read, and enjoy seeing the multiple positions people have. I would urge the staff (@jabba41) not to lock this immediately solely because you feel as if you are finished contributing to the discussion. There were multiple people who have contributed and this thread has gotten quite a bit of attention in the brief amount of time it has been open.
I think that @vendeta is talking from a position of authority which is a dangerous stance to take as you are only validating your opinion based on your history with the game rather than the quality of your ideas. I think both parties that have contributed to the discussion have made valid points.
I've mentioned before that I personally am qualified to partake in the 1200+ lobby but I share the thoughts of @Hakuna where I would like to see the mega bot evolve with those who play it. Mega has a distinct enough meta to justify the possibility of adding another bot. I understand that the likely hood of something like this is low but I don't believe that it is something that should be disregarded as something that can never happen.
As for your comments on his wiki, if he has an open forum why not contribute to the community by offering suggestions on that forum as it's apparent you care about the community to some extent and have a wealth of knowledge concerning solo builds. Simply indicating that his methods are bad aren't overly productive. It was great that you explained your thoughts behind the wolverine build and it has most likely been taken into consideration but why not offer your suggestions surrounding other flaws you've noticed on that or this forum.
Before you attack me for my lack of games, this is not my first account and have played more than this account acknowledges. I think its great to see people passionate about the game but I would implore those participating on the forum and offering their opinions to try and not take a position of authority and rather deal with the ideas directly.

[Vendeta]

Wow man i undestand u seek for approval here with your tryhard to look inteligent, maybe u dont get it enuff in rl so u have to seek for it somewhere, but rly, get over it already.

I stand by my words, mega is noob bot, which means u are a noob player, and i think u are an idiot for not looking for more competitive games, than just accepting mega and noob cross.

I blame myself for trying to help u in first place, and ending up in ridiculous disscusion with u saying 10 times how i misspelled some word, and how u saying that u are inteligent, so this is pure waste of time, since yea, i will only come to mega if i get on some smurf to get 20 ez wins against players like u.

I said this needs to be closed, cause if you didnt notice, even tho u said how very much inteligent u are, jabba already said this is denied. And now turned into you and your mega noobs attacking me just cuz i think mega is noob bot, and u are noob players.

So i wont waste anymore my time on you, play your mega, enjoy it, and dont bother responding to this, im done with you people.

[Hakuna]

Wow man i undestand u seek for approval here with your tryhard to look inteligent, maybe u dont get it enuff in rl so u have to seek for it somewhere, but rly, get over it already.

I stand by my words, mega is noob bot, which means u are a noob player, and i think u are an idiot for not looking for more competitive games, than just accepting mega and noob cross.

I blame myself for trying to help u in first place, and ending up in ridiculous disscusion with u saying 10 times how i misspelled some word, and how u saying that u are inteligent, so this is pure waste of time, since yea, i will only come to mega if i get on some smurf to get 20 ez wins against players like u.

I said this needs to be closed, cause if you didnt notice, even tho u said how very much inteligent u are, jabba already said this is denied. And now turned into you and your mega noobs attacking me just cuz i think mega is noob bot, and u are noob players.

So i wont waste anymore my time on you, play your mega, enjoy it, and dont bother responding to this, im done with you people.

@Vendeta
I'll respond to you all I like. You are the one that is posting in the thread that I opened, so if you want to stop responding, that's your prerogative. You don't get to have the last say just because you want to. If you want the last say you are going to have to earn it.

You seem to take exteme issue with the word "intelligent", because I only used it three times in this whole thread. And not one of those three times did I say "I am intelligent", I said "Let me discuss this in intelligent terms", and then proceeded to do so, I said "You have done nothing but insult my intelligence", which is exactly how I interpret your constant use of "noob" when referring both to me and other people who enjoy playing in the cross meta, and I said that I offer "intelligent counter-arguments", because that is precisely what I have tried to do time and again. If you think I am so dumb then maybe you should take a look in the mirror, because despite all your claims about not speaking English well, you speak plenty, but your grasp of logic is weak at best. You have offered extremely few coherent arguments despite having commented in this thread more than any other person aside from me.

Jabba also said, which apparently you also can't read in addition to being unable to write correct English, that he was ok with the discussion as long as it was civil. I have done my best to clean up my tone and not use flaming language towards you, but it seems that your ability to do the same has deteriorated in the same time frame. I hoped you would be able to move on from the insults earlier after I apologized and tried to make up for my disrespectful attitude by treating you with respect but you have made it pretty clear you have no interest in a civil discussion. Again, the ball is in your court. It's your choice to stop commenting if you don't want this to continue.

@HodoR_
Thanks man for your support. I hope if you get the time you can also add some input to the topic because I think there's still a lot that can be debated about how this could be implemented best. I realize that Jabba doesn't think this is something that would happen anytime soon, but I still think it's a good idea and given enough careful thought would be worth doing. Heck if it would help to buy the bot for them I wouldn't even be opposed if all they need is a cd key.

[HodoR_]

I believe the main issue there is that they have a very limited amount of bots available, ever since Blizz went nuts on banning ENT bots.

[ezuba]

I would like to see something like this implemented. It could be a bot that requires a certain elo/number of wins in the regular mega bot to join or a bot that doesn't keep elo but you are required to play in a certain number of games to join the regular mega bot.

The meta that has developed on the the mega bot is being enjoyed by people so I have 2 questions...

Why should there not be a higher level location to enjoy the meta that people enjoy?
Why should someone who doesn't appreciate the mega bots meta have any opinion on the matter?

Peace out!

[Hakuna]

I have updated the original post. My new proposal is simply to create a ranked cross bot, as I think this essentially solves the issues presented in a less controversial way.

I would like to get a sense of how much support there is for this idea, if you would like to be added to a list of supporters, please indicate such.

[Augustinus]

Why don't you post it under suggestions?

[NooBieMaN]

There is a lot of posts here... I didn't read them all and maybe this suggestion has been made... What if there is a below 1000 elo bot that anyone under 1k can play without higher level players being a part of. I find that many below 1000 players are often stacked against because nobody with any skill joins their team. Often times when they do, the games are over quickly because these players either play solo, don't communicate, learning or just flat out suck.

So, 1200+ Bot, 1001+ Bot and a 1000- Bot could serve the original purpose of this thread.