LTD 1200 isn't mega plus

[Hakuna]

Just wanted to have a further discussion on this topic:

Legion MEGA (aka cross Legion) has its own meta.
Legion TD 1200+ (aka no cross) has its own meta.

Playing Legion MEGA until you get 1200 ELO does not prepare you for playing Legion 1200+, aside from knowing units. It does not teach you how to play 1200+.

Please make a Cross 1200+ or a no-cross regular bot.

Cheers!

[Jabba41]

Hmm well i barely play 1200+ yet im not too bad in LTD, you just have to not play cross and you can already learn a lot about solo builds yourself in mega.
The main difference is the sending levels and weaknesses against cross/merge builds compared to 1200+

If you want to play no cross in mega just announce -phgmcbnm in the lobby and go ahead.

Wont implement a 1200+ cross bot. Mega players love trashing noobs.

[point]

Hmm well i barely play 1200+ yet im not too bad in LTD,

due to your amount of games not too bad its not enough

i agree with hakuna - ltd mega barely teaching ppl how to play better, 1200+ a little better, but still ppl do not like new players
its not about peoepl who teach or not, if you rly want to improve your game - you will work on that more, but adding new bots wont help cuz ppl already habit how it goes

[Hakuna]

I do play quite a bit of solo. I know a fair amount on how much is needed to hold in a solo lane. I also play some 1200+ though not a whole lot.

I feel that while there is merit to the argument that the cross meta permits players to be less punished for mistakes and thus allows a lower level of competition, that is not the same as saying that it is not a competitive environment and a competitive meta.

I think that the type of player you refer to who just enjoys preying on the weakest opponenets they can find repeatedly does not represent all and I hope does not represent the majority.

I for one enjoy the cross meta quite a lot and prefer to play against opponents who know what they are doing, certainly to have allies who know what they are doing. Currently this is just very often not the case and that is what I want a remedy for.

Teaching people is all well and good but I think that those who know what they are doing and have proved it through time and effort should have a place they can play competitively with ELO rewards.

If the issue is one of resources then as I have said before I will front the 'money for the bot. My understanding is that it instead is a problem of (particularly Jabba) the management not seeing this as a reasonable type of bot to host. Shouldn't the point of what bots are hosted be the question of how many people will use them? Besides which, if it were implemented and nobody played it, couldn't it just be switched to hosting some other game mode rather easily? The last thing I want is another permanently empty bot, as I've said in a different thread.

As for the suggestion to play no mid mode in mega, you may not realize this, but it's extremely common for games to get !draw'd when a game mode they don't want is chosen. People in the mega bot know what they want, and it's not random stuff like no mid mode, no fog of war mode, all pick mode...they want the good old classic, all prophet with mid allowed. That's why they play on the Mega bot, even though many of them have 1200+. I am pretty confident to say it's not all of them who just prefer stomping noobs. Quite a lot of us that I meet just prefer the game with cross allowed and the meta that involves it.

I feel like when I write all this you don't take me seriously or think I'm too uninformed to know better, which I find this kind of condescension gets me frustrated at times. I am trying my best to state my points in clear and intellectually consistent terms. I know what I think and I know what the friends I play with think on this issue.

I wish that the conversation could be more one of rhetoric and less one of condescending and name calling which is exactly the impression I get with broad statements like "Mega players love trashing noobs".

A) What is a Mega player? I play with a lot of them and they are far from being the same. They don't have the same goals, the same methods, the same attitudes, the same experience...etc.

B) What is trashing? The hyper-aggressive send meta is one of the things I find less appealing about playing Legion TD in general these days, it seems that instead of people being interested in trying new builds and flexing their late game prowess, most people just want to end the game quickly by ramping up their income extremely fast and sending huge amounts on key waves. Competitively, this is what wins most games, but from a player's perspective, I find this style of play a lot less enjoyable.

C) What are noobs? Lumping all players of lower competitiveness into one camp is just as condescending as putting all mega players together. There are players who just don't have as competitive an attitude, which are some of my favorite team-mates to have. The creative and funny ones are the best people to chat with. Then there are people who have not played in a long time and are out of touch with where the meta is these days and have forgotten this or that about how to play competitively. Last type that comes to mind is the newcomer who just wants to try out a new game mode on Battlenet and to me it seems pretty likely most of them wouldn't be interested in staying unless they play with a friend who can show them the ropes, because the majority of players around here treat new players terribly.

I realize not everyone has the interest in writing long posts like me and that's fine but I wish there was at least an effort given to address the issues by the opposition rather than restating the same position over and over of just denying the request because mega players are mega players and this that and the other thing, they don't deserve it.

[Stiff_Maistar]

As for the suggestion to play no mid mode in mega, you may not realize this, but it's extremely common for games to get !draw'd when a game mode they don't want is chosen. People in the mega bot know what they want, and it's not random stuff like no mid mode, no fog of war mode, all pick mode...they want the good old classic, all prophet with mid allowed. That's why they play on the Mega bot, even though many of them have 1200+.

A side note, those players that draw the game because they dont like the mode can be reported for abusing the bot. As long as the player announce the mode in the lobby so everyone has the opportunity to leave before the game starts.

[Hakuna]

As for the suggestion to play no mid mode in mega, you may not realize this, but it's extremely common for games to get !draw'd when a game mode they don't want is chosen. People in the mega bot know what they want, and it's not random stuff like no mid mode, no fog of war mode, all pick mode...they want the good old classic, all prophet with mid allowed. That's why they play on the Mega bot, even though many of them have 1200+.

A side note, those players that draw the game because they dont like the mode can be reported for abusing the bot. As long as the player announce the mode in the lobby so everyone has the opportunity to leave before the game starts.

Pretty sure that isn't true. If the draw is agreed to, it's just a vote. The host can't force the players to play it. What the rules state is that the host must declare the mode in the pregame so that players CAN leave. It doesn't stipulate that they MUST leave, and if the host is outnumbered 7 to 1 I'm pretty sure a report would go absolutely nowhere. Now, if the unhappy players were a vocal minority, who made the other players who were fine with it believe that THEY would be banned for not drawing, then you have a case on your hands. To try and argue that it is "game ruining" to draw a game mode that was announced in the pre-game would be quite a stretch IMO.

[Zeratul]

Altho this is an older brq - viewtopic.php?f=24&t=101524 , what Stiff_Maistar said is absolutely correct:

If the mode is announced, you either leave the lobby and wait for the new game, or you stay and play it (drawing the game cause you dont like the announced mode is bannable)

But i'm guessing you're not gonna trust us (judging by your previous post), so i'll make it easier for you and ask for a moderator to confirm you aka @Jabba41

If the mode is announced, you either leave the lobby and wait for the new game, or you stay and play it (drawing the game cause you dont like the announced mode is bannable)

[Hakuna]

Altho this is an older brq - viewtopic.php?f=24&t=101524 , what Stiff_Maistar said is absolutely correct:

If the mode is announced, you either leave the lobby and wait for the new game, or you stay and play it (drawing the game cause you dont like the announced mode is bannable)

But i'm guessing you're not gonna trust us (judging by your previous post), so i'll make it easier for you and ask for a moderator to confirm you aka @Jabba41

If the mode is announced, you either leave the lobby and wait for the new game, or you stay and play it (drawing the game cause you dont like the announced mode is bannable)

Well given that you linked an occasion documenting moderator approval of what you're saying, I have no problem believing it. I just don't tend to take non-moderators word for it on interpretation of rules.

Also, honestly players like myself frequently don't realize that when the mode is announced as "prnm" that it is not going to have fog of war. I am perfectly willing to play a non-standard gamemode such as pr, and I have nothing against nm, but no fog of war to me is completely pointless and not worth playing. This happened to me quite recently, which is why I use it as an example.