ban these people please

[h3rmit]

Wow, forcing someone to choose between paying for a monthly internet subscription, buying new hardware, or getting banned?

Considering that the player himself is accepting to play a 25-game, probably on old hardware, while having spikes that affect him much more than they affect the other players, I'd say it was pretty obvious they'd choose getting banned and starting a new account.

This is a game that was designed around 56k dial-up connections, and the reason we are getting a lag screen is for fairness. Newer games, like Dota2/LoL, just ignore the lagging player and leave them to their own troubles while the other play normally. Even when they disconnect.

Now, how this "fairness" towards the lagging player is actually implemented:

1. All GHost++ hostbots have a configuration value called "synclimit". It determines the maximum number of packets a player can fall out of sync before starting the lag screen. It defaults to 50, so the player has (latency) * 50 ms to catch up. I can't check what the configured latency is, but assuming it's 40ms, the player only has a 2-second window. That's very brief for a wi-fi connection that may have hiccups and high variance in its throughput. Now, I'm pretty sure the player will eventually catch up cause we don't live in the 56k era.

The synclimit can be safely raised to a much higher value to accommodate lagging players. It will only affect them, not the other players.

2. In the past, other communities have taken steps to handle lagging and disconnections like LoL and Dota2, without showing a lagging screen. I personally did some original research about it, and I introduced the GProxy Extended Protocol, allowing players to continue playing while someone is lagging or disconnects. It works in all versions of Warcraft III from 1.26 to 1.29.2 and several communities have added support for it. Perhaps it could be made possible for 1.30.1 too.

Communities should take actions to improve their infrastructure and software, rather than banning players that can't afford services and equipment.

[h3rmit]

Thank you for your feedback @h3rmit.

I’d like to clarify that the player in question has been experiencing consistent and severe lag issues, specifically high latency and frequent packet loss that cause the game to freeze every 10 to 15 seconds but he would not disconnect. This wasn’t simply a result of @astros submitting a report for poor lag; I’ve personally played in at least five games with this individual and have observed the same disruptive behavior each time. The temporary ban was not punitive it was intended to encourage the player to visit the forum so we could work together to find a solution to the issue.

We need to consider the broader impact: is it fair to the other 9 players when one user chooses to share their internet connection with multiple people, leading to repeated disruptions?

As a reminder, ENT officially shut down in 2019. Most of the original development and backend team have since moved on to other ventures, and as such, the infrastructure we’re using today is essentially frozen it will not be actively improved. That said, if you have direct contact with former contributors like Uafk.b or Hazardous and are able to involve them, I’m sure the entire community would greatly appreciate any effort to enhance our current setup.

Lastly, thank you again for your continued work on bug fixes and map updates. Your time and dedication to keeping the Dota map alive is genuinely appreciated.

[h3rmit]

Having experienced it many times firsthand, I completely agree that it is very disruptive for the game, and makes it unplayable and unbearable.

I also agree that it's very unfair for the other 9 players, and this is exactly my point: This whole situation stems from the bot's attempt to make the game fair for the lagger. But this is configurable in the very same configuration where we set the autohosted map and options (ghost.cfg).

My suggestion is to configure it to be more unfair for the lagger. Let them lag as much as their connection allows, but don't bring up the lag screen often, and don't make the other players wait.

I quote the default ghost.cfg configuration file and the explanation it provides:

### the maximum number of packets a player is allowed to get out of sync by before starting the lag screen
### before version 8.0 GHost++ did not have a lag screen which is the same as setting this to a very high number
### this can always be changed for a particular game with the !synclimit command (which enforces a minimum of 10 and a maximum of 10000)

bot_synclimit = 50

Setting a very high value will make people with bad connections lag. But that's their own problem to solve, by their own means, and does not concern the rest of the community. It's up to them to accept playing as their connection allows, or take action to improve it.

And I repeat, it's configurable by anyone with access to update the maps on the hostbots.

Unfortunately, I don't have any direct contact with uakf.b, and I haven't heard from Hazardous since 2018. However, I could assist in configuring a few things if needed. I don't know the specifics of your setup, but in the past I've developed several features on GHost++, and I'm also somewhat familiar with uakf.b's code.

P.S.: Thanks for your kind words. As far as the map is concerned, I'm currently having a look at Linken's Sphere. Perhaps I'll open a thread to gather information about known bugs and make a list of what needs to be investigated and fixed.

[Astros]

Having experienced it many times firsthand, I completely agree that it is very disruptive for the game, and makes it unplayable and unbearable.

I also agree that it's very unfair for the other 9 players, and this is exactly my point: This whole situation stems from the bot's attempt to make the game fair for the lagger. But this is configurable in the very same configuration where we set the autohosted map and options (ghost.cfg).

My suggestion is to configure it to be more unfair for the lagger. Let them lag as much as their connection allows, but don't bring up the lag screen often, and don't make the other players wait.

I quote the default ghost.cfg configuration file and the explanation it provides:

### the maximum number of packets a player is allowed to get out of sync by before starting the lag screen
### before version 8.0 GHost++ did not have a lag screen which is the same as setting this to a very high number
### this can always be changed for a particular game with the !synclimit command (which enforces a minimum of 10 and a maximum of 10000)

bot_synclimit = 50

Setting a very high value will make people with bad connections lag. But that's their own problem to solve, by their own means, and does not concern the rest of the community. It's up to them to accept playing as their connection allows, or take action to improve it.

And I repeat, it's configurable by anyone with access to update the maps on the hostbots.

Unfortunately, I don't have any direct contact with uakf.b, and I haven't heard from Hazardous since 2018. However, I could assist in configuring a few things if needed. I don't know the specifics of your setup, but in the past I've developed several features on GHost++, and I'm also somewhat familiar with uakf.b's code.

P.S.: Thanks for your kind words. As far as the map is concerned, I'm currently having a look at Linken's Sphere. Perhaps I'll open a thread to gather information about known bugs and make a list of what needs to be investigated and fixed.

I'm not advocating for a permanent ban or anything of such. The ban was to get the individual into the forums. Otherwise, they would never recognize that there is an issue to begin with.

The individual lives in the U.S. I'm not sure internet speed is really an issue but if it is, it's also their responsibility. If every game with the individual results in a 4v5, it isn't the other 9 players responsibility to just deal with it.

There are also alternatives. Is the issue due to spotty WiFi connection? Then a mesh wifi device would help. Is it slow internet from a bad data plan? Very unlikely since WC3 can run on the most basic of speeds. We're just trying to help solve the lag issue. The player himself isn't an issue. It's the lag. And yes, it does happen very often. My last 4-5 games playing with him have all involved him lagging profusely and then eventually getting dropped leading to a !draw or an unfavorable 4v5 game.

[MIKEJONES]

I understand there may be configurable settings on the bot that could potentially help with lag issues. However, it's unclear whether @unitil is comfortable making such adjustments. It's unlikely that upper staff would consider modifying bot settings for a single user experiencing this issue

That said, I don’t believe @cumonlevia has confirmed whether all troubleshooting steps on his end have been exhausted. His input is essential before exploring any alternatives.

@cumonlevia – when you have a chance, please provide an update on your current status.

[Bobalhao]

He's playing at his part time kiosk job repairing cracked screens on that prepaid burner is what this guy is tryna tell you.

I love how the usual pointing fingers players here are so gentle with the minorities (the poors, the foreigners, etc).

So lovelly.

[Bobalhao]

There's nothing I can do about it except for switching to Hotspot.
I can't help what other people do on their devices on the same network. As my home internet is shared between alot of people.
And why haven't you banned Planaria for asking game after 1st blood??

Dude, even i that live in brazil, i have at least 5 ISPs. Satelite, mobiles, cable...

Imma tell you something: when i played dota, the lowest ping was not from cable nor satelite. It was from the routed 4G (not five) from my shitty Samsung smartphone.

Cant you route your cellphone internet?

[RichardCoffee]

He's playing at his part time kiosk job repairing cracked screens on that prepaid burner is what this guy is tryna tell you.

Wendy's mall Wi-Fi going in and out is classic.