[LTD] Leastjuh

[Leastjuh]

Your Warcraft III username: Leastjuh
Realm/Gateway: entconnect
Why are you banned: Juggling (Says BAN) or TKing (Says BRQ) (BRQ here)
Why you should be unbanned:

1. It was lvl10 leak with 22 Units going boss with 9 bosses and a lot of dino's we only had 2 heal left . I was on king control because nobody took king so i was obligate to do so.

Spoiler!

1. First bosses enter i kill that boss
2+3. bosses come and i focus one of those at the moment there are no low bosses in range for the king to attack
Then i do a mistake in targeting and i let it go and kill that bosses after this i switch to lowest again (after the stomp i switched and i dindt see it from start). So there was maybe one little mistake in targeting but is is for sure not Intentional So i really ask the admin to watch replay agian and look for the shift. Like i just did to check. Time is from 22.00 to 24.10 in replay

2. i was 840 Value and 163 income as suidicer like i said so so. I dont feel this is TKing.

[Leastjuh]

@Merex , @Quetra , @Ben_T

[Merex]

You don't find it TK'ing when you deliberately change targets to higher hp bosses causing your team to die?

[Leastjuh]

@Merex? you saw replay? one time it changed after stomp. Probably because auto-cast was on. This was not intentional. Otherwise i just focus the current target i am on. Not switching between cast or anything. This is maybe bad king control but no TK. Hell forbid if you are going to report all for bad king control and call it TK. Wouldn't i TK on 7 then aswell? if we follew your logic?

EDIT : Also nobody asked for king control and nobody took it until i did on 7. if someone had asked for king i would have galdy give it becasue i know i am not good at it but aleast i try.

[Merex]

I did check the replay. There were multiple instances where you would double click on targets, shift attack to a higher hp target, leave some lower hp targets alive and at the very end - attacked a near-full hp target when you had 2 other low hp ones. Are you to tell me in your 2400+ games here at ENT that this is just faulty king control?

[Leastjuh]

@Merex. Yes because it was really bad king control. Do i had other bans in history for tk? Or juggling king? So why would i start doing it in this game for no reason? There was no grief or anything going on? I was suicide build with 160 income.. if would tk i would stop king form attacking. But i would like a 2nd opion of other mod.

Like said only times king changed target was when after stomp else it just followed my shift like i thought it was best in my knowlodge.

[Merex]

And what reason do you want to involve a 2nd mod that can't be settled between us exactly?

My point is, there's a line to make where mere mistakes happen over king juggling and I'd expect someone with as many games as yourself to understand the LTD rules regarding king juggling.

[Leastjuh]

So am i banned for juggling or tk? Because this not clear anymore for me?

Tk = team killing

King juggling = is preventing the king form attacking priority targets or switching between targets to save time in most cases.

Off topic watching the replay for 3th time i still tink with the best king control this still was the game.

[Merex]

It's a mix. You both tk'd the game whilst also changing priority targets away.

[Leastjuh]

@Merex

I break it full down for you so maybe you can understand that is was really bad king control and there was noting intentional involved.

LVL 10 Starts + Leaks

41 Send on our sides. Send is 1 furb, 5-6 dinos on each lane.

Myself Orange leaked as first wich included 3 bosses + 4 dinos + 1 Furb.

Boss 1 : 2977/3000 HP
Boss 2 : 2993/3000 HP
Boss 3 : 2841/3000 HP

Green is 2nd to leak. He leaks 3 bosses + 4 dinos

Boss 4 : 2835/3000 HP
Boss 5 : 2981/3000 HP
Boss 6 : 2993/3000 HP

Yellow is 3th to leak. He leaks 3 bosses

Boss 7 : 1584/3000 HP
Boss 8 : 2046/3000 HP
Boss 9 : 1169/3000 HP

Pink is last to least. He leaks 3 bosses

Boss 10 : 185/3000 HP
Boss 11 : 945/3000 HP
Boss 12 : 960/3000 HP

Bosses will come in this order because of mid delay on green/pink side

MY leaks first and then all 3 the other leaks on same time.

King

That momment we have 28 att on king 20 hp and 20 reg with 2 heal left.

1. Target is Frub that arrives from my side. (We do last 2 atttacks on when furbs die)
2. Boss 1 arrives king with 2977/3000 HP and is instant target. -> That momment Yellow Says we dig to deep. and basiclly calls the defeat already.
3. When 1 bosses dies king is on 18305/18075 HP. There is one bosses in range to target. wich is 2841/3000 (Boss 3) Which is target after 1 dino kill.
4. I done shift klcik on the Boss 6. i shift click on 3 bosses in order. Boss 9 and use stomp. Boss 3 dies. King is at that momment on 15873/18750 HP.
5. I Switch target then to 131/3000 Hp (Boss 10) but hit the dino next to it and not the boss it self. IT switchs back to the next order target. I see the mistake and switch back to the boss 9. and kills it.

At this momment there are 3 bosses down . 9 bosses alive. King is on 9810/18750 HP.

6. 8 bosses hitting the King and 1 still walking arround. I switch then to the bosses with the 2nd lowest hp ( I saw in replay it was a diferrence of 150hp. At that momment i use stomp and targetting is changed by the king it self there is no dubbelclick or anything on that time. And i switches to highest HP Boss. it Gets 3 hits to this bosses when i noticed it. There is still nothing in chat about king control at that momment. i swicht back to lowest hp bosses at that time. King has 3354/18750 Health left. In sequence i kill the 2 lwest bosses at that time and we lose or First heal.

So are a left a this momment. 6 bosses and 6 dinos.

With the following hp


boss 1 2872/3000 HP
boss 2 1060/3000 HP
boss 3 1530/3000 HP
boss 4 2692/3000 HP
boss 5 0890/3000 HP
boss 6 1992/3000 HP
boss 7 2672/3000 HP

dino 1 151/275 HP
dino 2 75/275 HP
dino 3 172/275 HP
dino 4 172/275 HP
dino 5 070/275 HP
dino 6 116/275 HP


7. I target the first dino wich was closest next to the bosses i just killed dino 1 and kill it 1 hit KIng 8400/18750 HP + Shhift order next attack.
8. klicked dino 2
9. I then click indeed on the bosses with is the highest HP 2872/3000 HP. and shift klick on the next ones. So yes there was 1 mistake. King is that moment already on 3000/18750 Hp. With 7 bosses alive add 3 dinos
10. That highest Boss dies at that moment and shift click goes on to the next one. King is at that moment 55/18750 HP 6 bosses alive.
11. Kill the next boss : King is at that moment on 7519/18750 HP
12 . Kill the next boss ; King is at that moment on 2839/18750 HP
13. Kill the next boss : King is at that moment on 1446/18750 HP with 3 bosses alive. and 2 dinos.
14. Kill the dino next tho the bosses i last killed 63/275 HP so 1 hit again. King 891/18750HP with 3 bosses and 1 dino
15. Switch to next boss. and we king dies with 3 bosses alive +1 furb


boss 1: 1398/3000 Hp
Boss 2: 1883/3000 Hp
boss 3 : 1398/3000 HP
dino 1 : 7/275 HP

So alright there was 1 or 2 mistake on ordering if i see the replay on slow motion on 1/2 speed. But really calling 1-2 mistake in ordering TK? i find a bit overreacted. And if we count it out and see that i would have done that ordering right the result was still the same. We would have lost.

But if you still dont see it like this i would sit out the remain of the days. But every little mistake a player makes in ordering on kills. I will report from now and we will break the comminutity by doing this. This was not intent TK or game ruin or anything. Rules are made for those not for stupid mistakes that players can make.

And yes i want a 2nd mod to be involved becasue all can make mistakes and i feel like this also a mistake by you by not going in dept as a mod. So i want an opion of 2nd mod. is that my right to have a 2nd opion? like a normal justice work.

[Anda]

Looked at it aswell, and i agree with merex ruling.
Not an ent mod, just a feedback though

[Leastjuh]

@Anda okay but on the juggling part or on the Tk? Really dont call this Tk witch was BRQ made for. Juggling i can agree a bit because like i said on my post there where mistakes in king control but they didnt made the game loss or timestale. So there is no outcome difference.

[Leastjuh]

Both, cause as i see it fit aswell as a mixture. The question for me was do i believe you tked control on purpose cause you thaught the game is lost or wanted it to end. Judging by the replay, and as you stated here yourself you believe the outcome wouldnt change even with top notch king control, i also believe that besides making mistakes( juggling) you definitely didnt try your hardest to survive 10, which is mandatory to do.Thats a double offense, hence merex was right to ban you for both.
Also with this break the community stuff etc you mention, thats not the right mindset. Act just as you think is the right thing to do, if you get treated the same way shouldnt influence your behaviour. Lead by example, im sure this will help you on appeals if you make mistakes in the future aswell.
As in general im not under the impression you are unwilling to cooperate but just rly want to understand what was your offense, and argue it with fair reasoning aswell i hope this will get a little time cut off for you so you can return faster to gaming.

[Leastjuh]

Okay then, ill sit out and let report everyone who does bad king control on any lvl (by mistake or just nog good with the king). Myself will never king or try and let just computer do so. i still dont belive this was justify ban (espcily length for it as this was my first offence) but thxs anyway for making a precedent.

EDIT :

@Anda you are right i am trying to figure out where @merex see the intantional Tk or Juggling. Because i made some mistakes on control but those where just made out of lack of experience on "good / top noch" king control.

[Merex]

@Leastjuh Your attitude is very unappealing, so allow me to "break it full down" for you.

• Initially coming into this appeal you state to me that you were "obligated" to take the king due to the sends and only heals left. This tells me already that you were in the mindset that the game was over and had no intention on carrying forward.
  
• Your reasoning for "simply bad king control" is unconvincing at best. Even with such minor inconveniences when controlling, you should be able to tell that all lower HP kings go out first. Especially in the end, since you've claimed to watch the replay so many times, you don't target full HP kings and cause your team to die.
  
• After attempting to explain to you what exactly it is you did and telling you it was wrong you start threatening to report & "break our community" which is just unnecessary and you know it.

So with this, I'm not convinced in the slightest that you are here to appeal but merely to argue - As exampled by in your posts with your own words you are willing to 'sit out' the remainder of your ban and whine.

Okay then, ill sit out and let report everyone who does bad king control on any lvl

But if you still dont see it like this i would sit out the remain of the days. But every little mistake a player makes in ordering on kills. I will report from now and we will break the comminutity by doing this

You will get your 2nd opinion from another moderator but for now, your appeal is denied. If you wish to think over your approach to the ENT staff & myself, you may appeal tomorrow and we will see then. But for now, best glance in on this topic - I'll have another mod come in here and provide their own insight.